# I don't 'get' hunting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605 "2009-10-21T14:38:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/121 "2009-10-22T18:07:34Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > In modern hunting and gathering cultures, most of the calories definitely come from the women’s work, which can be pretty difficult work when you look at the kind of starches that are available in those parts of the world - they require a lot of prep work. “Gathering” isn’t just nuts and berries, of course. This seems directly contradicted by the cites I have seen. Do you have any evidence of it? To be fair, most “modern” hunters and gatherers live in marginal areas, and maybe in ancient days gathering used to be significantly more important (though one wonders how anyone nowadays can _determine_ the relative importance). But certainly most modern-day hunters and gatherers earn most of their caloric intake via hunting, not gathering. In the case of the Innuit, there isn’t really much _to_ gather much of the year … [According to the paper cited upthread, 73% of hunter-gatherer societies surveyed got greater than 50% of their calories from meat; only 14% got greater than 50% of calories from plants; presumably the remainder split equally] That “hunters and gatherers earn most of their calories through gathering” seems like the sort of counter-intuitive meme that gets spread because it sounds interesting, not necessarily because it is factually true. Though again, I’d welcome actual evidence on the point. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/122 "2009-10-22T18:16:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Though again, I’d welcome actual evidence on the point. Since this thread is in the Pit, and is primarily about hunting, I wonder whether it might be worthwhile to open a GD or GQ thread about the hunter gatherer issue, just since we might be missing the input of interested and knowledgeable people who prefer not to sully themselves in the Pit. I am not a moderator, nor do I aspire to be one. This is merely a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/123 "2009-10-22T18:22:02Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t blame him. I hunt on occasion and the thrill of the kill is part of the package. I think it’s a little dishonest to say it isn’t. > > Odesio Part but not the whole package the way some non-hunters think. I’ve had fantastic days where I never shot a thing. I was on one hunt I could describe second by second back to a police artist and not only did we not kill anything, we never fired a shot. It was the only time my Dad and I hunted together. We did a lot of different things together but that was our only hunt and its burned in my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/124 "2009-10-22T18:23:13Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Well, what is your definition of “gathering?” And what about Eskimo tribes? They don’t seem to consume much in the way of gathered foods, at least as a percentage of their daily caloric intake. I’ve read it in Jared Diamond’s books, but he’s mostly talking about Papua New Guinea. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/125 "2009-10-22T18:23:51Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Since this thread is in the Pit, and is primarily about hunting, I wonder whether it might be worthwhile to open a GD or GQ thread about the hunter gatherer issue, just since we might be missing the input of interested and knowledgeable people who prefer not to sully themselves in the Pit. > I am not a moderator, nor do I aspire to be one. This is merely a suggestion. It’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/126 "2009-10-22T18:25:01Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Wasn’t acorns one of the staples of the Native American diet? I think I read that somewhere… Acorns and pine nuts – I think I saw it in a Euell Gibbons commercial for some cereal. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/127 "2009-10-22T18:29:02Z")
I’ve added a new thread as per suggestion on the hunter-gatherer topic: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11692682#post11692682](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11692682#post11692682) ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/128 "2009-10-22T19:13:46Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Acorns and pine nuts – I think I saw it in a Euell Gibbons commercial for some cereal. Mmmm-mmm good! Acorns and pine nuts. That’ll make ya wanna jump outta bed in the morning! ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/129 "2009-10-22T19:20:44Z")
“Hunting” to me was a family thing whereby I would get to spend quality time with my Dad, uncles, cousins, and various family members. Much like camping except you got to sit in a blind (with a gun). I mean that is fun in and of itself. If you don’t like guns or shooting then there isn’t much to be said about the ‘sport’ of it. Sitting around a campfire, drinking beer, cooking outdoors. All fun stuff. TO ME. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/130 "2009-10-22T19:33:46Z")
> [@Jettboy](#): > > I consider hunting to be a little creepy and a bit weird. Not terrible, or horrific, or inhumane, mind you, but a _little_ creepy, a _minor_ weird. Like finding out that your Uncle Sully wears women’s underwear; you still love the guy, and you don’t really think any less of him, but you still raise an eyebrow because it is a bit _odd_. Yeah, I get that, but slaughterhouses are actually weirder & creepier to me. So I don’t really begrudge hunters. Not that I enjoy sitting out in the woods smelling of woodsmoke & mold, myself. (As a child of the Ozarks, I am a total misfit given my general loathing of smoke.) Or of deer urine for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/131 "2009-10-22T20:35:49Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I’ve read the whole thread now, and come to two conclusions. > > 1. nice pickup **Guin** > > 2. I want to go hunting with **Skald.** and **ghardester**. > (Scylla too, but it might be too cosmic for me. ) This morning’s hunting report, in case anyone is interested. The stars were out when I left the house and Venus was rising in the east. I went up into the woods and found my spot. On the drive up I saw what was probably a Great Horned Owl, but it was too dark to tell exactly, but it was big. As the sun rose I could see the valley of the Columbia rolling with fog. Like what you see when in an airplane flying above the clouds. A logging operation was starting up a couple of ridges over from mine and I could hear the men going to work and a high-lead tower starting to pull logs to a landing. I did not shoot a deer. But I enjoyed the morning. I saw a young doe, 2 Ruffed Grouse, and a coyote. Only 2 other hunters on the road. That’s it. Please carry on with your hunter-gatherer debate. We seem to have gotten away from the reasons for liking to hunt and are now in a more historical and socialogical area about the origins. Got things to do. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/132 "2009-10-22T20:50:40Z")
I was on the other end of the Columbia not that long ago. Small world / big river. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/133 "2009-10-23T01:05:58Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Horseshit. The “universe” is completeley indifferent to you or your attempts to compensate. Well, first off, was it truly necessary to quote that whole entire post just to say that? Secondly, it’s not horseshit, because I didn’t say the universe “cared,” nor do I think it does. You’ve entirely missed the point which is simply that a hammer hammers or it’s a waste. The universe doesn’t say it’s a waste. I do. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/134 "2009-10-23T01:27:10Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Except for this: [http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4wc9g8g4](http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4wc9g8g4) easily found cite which disagrees that more calories came from gathering. > > The idea that women supported the hunters in hunter-gatherer cultures is _at best_ plausible. It is by no means at all an accepted conclusion. > > Regardless of what we “evolved to eat” which is, to me, a ridiculous concept, stating controversial ideas as obvious fact is just wrong. Especially, as in this case, without providing a cite. your cite contradicts nothing. As I stated, the fossil record shows that our ancestors went from almost a pure vegetable diet to an omnivorous diet. That modern humans have continued to evolve, even to the point where eskimos may eat little plant matter hardly does anything to dispute this fact. I’m not sure why you would find the notion “evolved to eat” ridiculous. It’s pretty basic and there’s countless examples. Bees evolved to eat pollen, ruminants evolved to eat cellulostic plant matter, Pandas evolved to eat bamboo. You put a panda on the diet a horse evolved to eat and you get a dead panda. Vultures evolved to eat carrion, and developed a much higher concentration of stomach acid to do so. You would not do well on a vulture’s diet because you have not evolved to eat it. Finding something ridiculous is not a counterargument. It’s a statement of opinion. And, your opinion is demonstrably wrong. If your point is that nowadays indigenous humans have a wide variety of diets ranging from almost exclusively meat to almost exclusively plant matter, and that not in all those tribes are woman the gatherers, than yes, I would agree. An interesting footnote is that our evolution into persistence hunters has left us very specialized. In most sports a person becomes competitive somewhere around age 19. They may continue to improve for a years but eventually they peak and begin to regress. Somewhere around age 27 they recross the competitive line to the downside. In ultrarunning only, among all physical sports this is wildly different. Again, you become competitive somewhere around age 19, but guess how old you are when you recross that threshold to the downside… 1. **Born to Run** is my cite. The author also cites this in the video for the book on Amazon. Now, I don’t have these figures exact, but at one of the toughest ultramarathons, the Leadville 100 only about 1 out of three people who start the race actually finish it. But, and this is the interesting part **90% of women** who start, finish. Unique among sports in another way, there isn’t really much a battle of the sexes. Women win these things outright. Women are equally competitive with men in ultramarathons (the longer the race the more equal it is.) The implications are pretty clear. When our homo erectus ancestors were out persistence hunting, the women didn’t stay home and gather nuts. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/135 "2009-10-23T04:01:06Z")
**Scylla** , I realize that you are incapable of critical thinking. I will direct you to the GQ thread on this very issue. But hey, we can take **Born to Run** ’s secondhand evidence that actually _doesn’t support your point_ over a real cite. The rest of your shitty post is incomprehensible gibberish that hangs together about as well as a suit that a blind man got at a going-out-of-business sale. You claimed “More calories came from gathering in pre-ag societies than came from hunting”. You are wrong, even though that apparently offends your views on… whatever the fuck it is you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/136 "2009-10-23T06:45:14Z")
Incidentally, **Stoid** had a GD thread on this topic some years ago. > [@Malthus](#): > > Of course I may be being “willfully obtuse”, but it seems to me pretty clear that what you are really objecting to, whether you are willing to admit to it or not, is the _morality_ of deriving enjoyment from killing animals for the hunt. Not necessarily. I find hunting odd as well. I also think hunting is _more_ moral than eating meat from industrial agriculture. I opine that wild deer and boar are living in more appropriate circumstances than tail-docked piggies, for example. I am not a vegetarian. But plugging Bambi or even vermin holds no interest for me. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Scylla and Ghardester just knocked it out of the park. Nah, I think Ex-Tank won the thread on post #74, page 2. > [@Scylla](#): > > I like hunting. > > I like killing. > > I like carving. > > I like grilling. Ok, but do you like green eggs and ham? 😛 > [@](#): > > Four million years of evolution has made you a colossal hunting badass. Everything about you that makes you human, makes you a hunter. Evolution has sacrificed just about everything else to make you the ultimate hunter. Seriously, the fact is most of us have little or no inclination to shoot guns at critters. Like me, for example. Given our ancestral environment, I find this puzzling: love of the hunt _should_ be ubiquitous, but it isn’t. In most of the world, you have to pay big bucks to buy a homestead overlooking a body of water. Wilson traces this attraction to what used to be the best living locations in the Serengeti. In contrast, hunting is priced economically: if it reflected some deep-seated human need, the rights to bag a deer would cost thousands and would be won in contests or lotteries. As it is, hunting is cheaper than photography, never mind golf or skiing. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/137 "2009-10-23T07:04:29Z")
A few old threads on the topic: [OK Stoid, Hunting v Free Range Beef](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=51403&page=2) Hunting: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-41340.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-41340.html) Can Anyone Support Sport Hunting: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-202336.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-202336.html) Is it moral to hunt? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-37538.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-37538.html) I think I had the first one in mind. ---
**Author:** ![horsetech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dec6dc/32.png) [@horsetech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horsetech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/138 "2009-10-23T16:10:17Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > These people aren’t trophy hunters. They’re not paying taxidermists. They’re not paying someone else to clean, cut, chop, or grind the meat. They’re picking up 3 or 4 deer tags (and an elk or **pronhorn** tag, on a good year), and feeding the family with the meat. (bolding mine) Damn, you need a license for that now? As for the OP, I don’t hunt, but I wish more people around here would. There are too many damn deer. Hell, I would fine with letting people shoot extra deer and, after making sure they were truly dead, leaving them for the vultures and the insects. We have become the apex predators, time to do our jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/139 "2009-10-23T17:09:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You underestimate the blood lust some people have. Hunting is probably a healthy outlet for some people, like porn being a release for potential sex offenders. It is better than the alternatives. Um, yeah, you just keep telling yourself. (FWIW, I’ve never actually been hunting. I’m more of the “Roadkill Cafe” type. _“You kill it, we grill it!”_ :D) ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605/140 "2009-10-23T17:35:44Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Well, first off, was it truly necessary to quote that whole entire post just to say that?. Shamefully, no. I did try to edit it to correct for that but missed the window. :smack: > [@Scylla](#): > > Secondly, it’s not horseshit, because I didn’t say the universe “cared,” nor do I think it does. You’ve entirely missed the point which is simply that a hammer hammers or it’s a waste. The universe doesn’t say it’s a waste. I do. I was specifcally responding to this [QUOTE=Scylla] The universe is a cruel and unfriendly place. [/QUOTE] To me, unless explicitly modifying indifference or a synonym, cruel and unfriendly connote a deliberate, sought out position. I intepret this to mean, The universe doesn’t like you and will harm you as a result. My point is you’re not really a hammer. You’re more of a stapler that can be used to push the occasional nail into drywall for the purposes of hanging a picture, but you’re really not fit for use in framing a house. Which is fine, because you’ll never be called on to do so. (_i.e._ think what you will, but with a $3,000 30-30 and $400 in clothes from Cabellas, you’re no caveman. That’s okay, becasue you don’t live in a cave and probably never will; you live in a house). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-hunting/514605.md?page=8)