# I don't get Liza Minnelli. Please explain. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069 "2005-09-11T04:41:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/21 "2005-09-11T22:34:51Z")
C’mon, Minelli without the makeup and the camera angles is average-looking at best. By Hollywood standards, she’s ugly. Not a very good singer or actress either. Plays one role well. Liza. Fine if you like the role, and there’s no disputing tastes, but jeebus, she’s just not very good looking. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/22 "2005-09-11T22:40:45Z")
Specifically, her eyes are too far apart, her nose is too big, and her mouth is too big. She looks like a failed Muppet design. ---
**Author:** ![whistlepig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/73ab20/32.png) [@whistlepig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whistlepig)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/23 "2005-09-11T22:49:54Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Just as a point of reference, what women _do_ do something for you? Hell, start with Marilyn Monroe and go up through Bjork. She’s not a straight guys dream or even fetish fool-around. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/24 "2005-09-11T23:13:31Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > [Oh](http://www.jacneed.com/PhotoFile/Liza_Minelli.jpg) [you’re](http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/images/m/13385301.jpg) [right](http://members.fortunecity.com/johnrobinsonm/scansm/minnelli/Liza%20Minelli%20m7.jpg), [she’s](http://xml.whatsonwhen.com/img_bg/cabaret1.jpg) [hideous](http://www.poster.net/sinatra-frank/sinatra-frank-photo-frank-sinatra-liza-minelli-and-sammy-davis-jr-6233786.jpg). Always was. Always will be. Thank you for enlightening me. Sorry, but none of those pictures does anything for me in the least. And in that second link, she is indeed hideous. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/25 "2005-09-12T01:32:23Z")
I wouldn’t call her ugly (well, NOW she is), but even back in the day, she was just kind of average at best and downright strange looking at worst. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/26 "2005-09-12T03:03:37Z")
First things first. To the OP: _Liza with a Z_ is (or I should say, was) a television show, not a movie in the stictest sense. While it’s true that Liza has been running on empty for at least a decade now, her early body of work is nothing to dismiss, and stands as a testament to the talent she has (or, at least, had). The problem is that the breathless, pop-eyed, girlish exuberance that played well for a young up-and-comer in the 60’s, 70s and 80s, does not wear well on the boozy, overweight matron Liza has become. Sadly, she was never able to transition into an elder statesman-type performer, like Sinatra or Streisand. But if anyone doubts Liza’s early talents, I suggest they get hold of the cast recording of a little-known 1960s Broadway gem called _Flora the Red Menace_. Liza starred in it and won a Tony Award for her efforts – the youngest recipient at the time, IIRC. She is really wonderful in it. BTW, the show was fateful in way that would pay dividends for the rest of her career: it began her lifelong relationship with what would become one of the strongest, songwriting teams in show business, Kander and Ebb. (_Flora_ was the first Broadway show for the trio.) When you’ve got K&E writing songs and shows _just for you_, you’ve got one hell of an ace in the hole. Liza later added another ally that helped raise her public profile – on the fashion front – in Halston. So, sure, being Judy Garland’s daughter probably got her auditions that other shlubs would not have gotten. But she carried her weight in her early career. And she lucked into some very talented collaborators along the way, and those probably bought her and extra decade or two. But now, her style is all old hat, her looks and talent have been eroded by old age and substance abuse, and her reputation has been stained by scandals and stupid life choices. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/27 "2005-09-12T03:43:52Z")
Not to mention that _Liza with a Z_ was absolutely stupendous and raved over at the time (and won 4 Emmys and a Directors’ Guild Award in 1973 and was nominated for another 4 Emmys that year). ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/28 "2005-09-12T04:05:22Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Just as a point of reference, what women _do_ do something for you? Bettie Page, Marilyn Monroe, Catherie Zeta-Jones, Jennifer Connelly, Rose McGowan, Angelina Jolie, Alyson Hannigan, Kate Winslet, Tina Fey, Robia LaMorte, Charisma Carpenter, Scarlett Johanssen, Keira Knightley, Amy Poehler, Rachael Ray, Nigella Lawson, Rhona Mitra, Janeane Garofalo, Judy Greer, Fran Drescher (seriously), Lisa Edelstein, Gina Gershon, Salma Hayek, Claire Forlani, Leah Remini, Rena Sofer, Natalie Portman, Alicia Witt, Lynda Carter, Neko Case, Jenny Lewis (of the band Rilo Kiley), Shirley Manson, Gwen Stefani, Tori Amos, Shania Twain (even though I hate her music), Lisa Loeb, Masuimi Max, Persephone, Morrigan Hel, Anna Malle, Asia Carrera, Jeanna Fine, Brittany Andrews, Linsey Dawn McKenzie, Dita Von Teese… and that’s just off the top of my head, not that it really matters what I think. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/29 "2005-09-12T04:20:56Z")
Wow, you’re really open to a wide variety of types… ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/30 "2005-09-12T04:39:44Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > No, Sir. You are simply incorrect. She is ugly. I think she’s quite attractive… ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/31 "2005-09-12T04:50:09Z")
I never got Zsa Zsa either. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/32 "2005-09-12T05:16:53Z")
I’ve been to several Liza concerts over the decades, and she is absolutely gorgeous and mesmerizing in a live performance. But when I play the CD’s or tapes of those concerts, or her movies, there’s very little there. She’s connects with a live audience in a way that very few performers do, but you’ve just gotta be there to experience it. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/33 "2005-09-12T05:47:14Z")
> [@whistlepig](#): > > She’s not a straight guys dream She was the dream girl of my straight-guy best friend Max back in the 1970s. Yes, I thought was an odd choice myself. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/34 "2005-09-12T13:52:11Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Bettie Page, Marilyn Monroe, Catherie Zeta-Jones, Jennifer Connelly, Rose McGowan, Angelina Jolie, Alyson Hannigan, Kate Winslet, Tina Fey, Robia LaMorte, Charisma Carpenter, Scarlett Johanssen, Keira Knightley, Amy Poehler, Rachael Ray, Nigella Lawson, Rhona Mitra, Janeane Garofalo, Judy Greer, Fran Drescher (seriously), Lisa Edelstein, Gina Gershon, Salma Hayek, Claire Forlani, Leah Remini, Rena Sofer, Natalie Portman, Alicia Witt, Lynda Carter, Neko Case, Jenny Lewis (of the band Rilo Kiley), Shirley Manson, Gwen Stefani, Tori Amos, Shania Twain (even though I hate her music), Lisa Loeb, Masuimi Max, Persephone, Morrigan Hel, Anna Malle, Asia Carrera, Jeanna Fine, Brittany Andrews, Linsey Dawn McKenzie, Dita Von Teese… and that’s just off the top of my head, not that it really matters what I think. Oh, _it matters_, dude. With that list, you are a Tastemaker. BTW, I’ll add that although I see nothing hot about Liza, the late-40s-early-50s Judy Garland could really clean my clock. See _Summer Stock_ sometime. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/35 "2005-09-12T14:15:47Z")
Tony - check Oscar - check Emmy - check She certianly appeals to someone. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/36 "2005-09-12T15:18:04Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Oh, _it matters_, dude. With that list, you are a Tastemaker. Tastemaker? [Straight woman reporting in. I always thought Liza was attractive, and I like her voice.] ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/37 "2005-09-12T18:22:15Z")
She also won the Grammy Living Legend Award in 1990 for the body of her recording work. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/38 "2005-09-12T18:29:11Z")
When I was younger, I frequently thought about Liza during sex. It helped me to keep from ejaculating prematurely. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/39 "2005-09-12T19:49:22Z")
Let’s just say she’s exotic, in the _NewsRadio_ sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069/40 "2005-09-12T22:49:32Z")
A close friend of mine was one of Liza’s personal assistants for many years. I could tell ya stories… Whether or not you think she is attactive, you cannot deny she has certainly done some fine work over the years - albums, Broadway and film. She has made many, many bad career choices, but that is easy to say in hindsight. At the time they probably seemed like a good idea. I have seen her in concert many times and she puts on a hell of a live show, when she is sober. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-liza-minnelli-please-explain/321069.md?page=3)