I don't get the 6 month delay in ending DACA

[Okrahoma]

@TriPolar

It was in there hands as soon as the executive order was made.

“And I think there’s been a great disservice done to the cause of getting the DREAM Act passed and getting comprehensive immigration passed by perpetrating the notion that somehow, by myself, I can go and do these things. It’s just not true. … We live in a democracy. You have to pass bills through the legislature, and then I can sign it.”

[running_coach]

@Okrahoma

The point is that DACA and other Obama immigration EOs were a blatant executive overreach. Even according to Obama himself. So the overreach is removed now, as it should be. The decision is in Congress’s hands, as it should always have been.

So all of a sudden, Congress wants to pass for Trump the same thing they refused to pass for Obama.
And they pretend the Democrats are the obstructionists.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Okrahoma

The point is that DACA and other Obama immigration EOs were a blatant executive overreach. Even according to Obama himself. So the overreach is removed now, as it should be. The decision is in Congress’s hands, as it should always have been.

Here’s the problem, as eloquently put by a Globe and Mail editorial:

But given that the Republican-controlled Congress is so dysfunctional that it couldn’t pass a kidney stone if its life depended on it, Mr. Trump has put a gun to the heads of some of the most vulnerable people in his country, all for the sake of appeasing his shrinking base.

Mr. Trump’s upending of that small mercy is of a piece with his anti-immigrant rhetoric and nativism. His claim that he did it to protect the rule of law and the authority of the courts is laughable in the wake of his pardon of the criminally convicted Arizona sheriff, Joe Arpaio.

[Folacin]

@Okrahoma

The point is that DACA and other Obama immigration EOs were a blatant executive overreach. Even according to Obama himself. So the overreach is removed now, as it should be. The decision is in Congress’s hands, as it should always have been.

Arguably not overreach. DACA was the President saying “deport everyone else first, starting with people who have committed serious crimes”. Clearly within his purview.

The work permit thing I don’t know about (one of the lawyers can comment perhaps), but the registration would (in theory) make it easier to deport the dreamers once everyone else was gone. And frankly, anyone who signed up for it now probably feels a right fool for giving the feds their contact information.

[Lance_Turbo]

@Okrahoma

The point is that DACA and other Obama immigration EOs were a blatant executive overreach. Even according to Obama himself. So the overreach is removed now, as it should be. The decision is in Congress’s hands, as it should always have been.

Is this what you believe or what you believe Trump believes? Both?

How do you reconcile that with the following tweet?

“Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can’t, I will revisit this issue!” - DJT

[Miller]

@Okrahoma

The point is that DACA and other Obama immigration EOs were a blatant executive overreach. Even according to Obama himself.

Do you have a quote from Obama saying that? Because none of the ones you’ve posted so far come close.

[septimus]

I see nothing unusual about the delay. Repeal of Obamacare also ended up as a Kick-it-down-the-road “plan.”

Remember that, contrary to appearances, most of Trump’s advisers and even Trump himself have three-digit IQs. They are quite aware of the stupidity and brutality of Trump’s “plans.” Inserting a delay into their stupidest ideas is perfect for Trump — he can blabber and bluster to his base about how wonderful he is, but the dreadful consequences won’t trip in until he’s reprieved by the grim reaper or by Congress coming to its senses.

[John_Mace]

@septimus

I see nothing unusual about the delay. Repeal of Obamacare also ended up as a Kick-it-down-the-road “plan.”

Remember that, contrary to appearances, most of Trump’s advisers and even Trump himself have three-digit IQs. They are quite aware of the stupidity and brutality of Trump’s “plans.” Inserting a delay into their stupidest ideas is perfect for Trump — he can blabber and bluster to his base about how wonderful he is, but the dreadful consequences won’t trip in until he’s reprieved by the grim reaper or by Congress coming to its senses.

As one of the talking heads I heard put it: They’re kicking it down the road-- the problem is, we’ve run out of road!

[The_Stainless_Steel_Rat]

@Okrahoma

DACA (as Obama, correctly, stated several times in the past) is outside of the powers of the Executive. It was a blatant Presidential overreach. Trump is fixing this by killing it as a Presidential overreach/EO and putting the decision back into Congressional hands, where it belongs.

Him signing it when it comes to him as a new law from Congress is fully consistent with this position.

@septimus

I see nothing unusual about the delay. Repeal of Obamacare also ended up as a Kick-it-down-the-road “plan.”

Remember that, contrary to appearances, most of Trump’s advisers and even Trump himself have three-digit IQs. They are quite aware of the stupidity and brutality of Trump’s “plans.” Inserting a delay into their stupidest ideas is perfect for Trump — he can blabber and bluster to his base about how wonderful he is, but the dreadful consequences won’t trip in until he’s reprieved by the grim reaper or by Congress coming to its senses.

I find myself in general agreement with both Okrahoma and septimus (and the cognitive dissonance is clogging up my sinuses…).

It actually is what passes for a shrewd move by Herr Trumpster. He appeases his supporters with some red meat (“Look, I’m doing something about all those illegals and taking away their jobs so ‘real’ Americans can have them”), but leaves himself an out in that no one who is currently registered will be deported in the next six months, if I read the plan correctly.

Meanwhile he puts the onus on Congress to do something. If they do manage to bring out a relatively ‘clean’ bill, he can say “Well, Congress did what they are supposed to do, I’m not happy with some of it, but these are the people’s representatives so I will sign it and let the people express their opinion to their representatives.” And if they don’t act, he can say instead “Well, the Congress has spoken–I gave them six months to do something and they didn’t bother and couldn’t pass anything, so it’s one their heads.” Either way he comes out looking “presidential” and passes the s***storm to the Republicans running for Congress.

Now, personally I don’t think Trump is smart enough to plan this well…but somebody in the White House obviously can.

We shall see.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@ThisIsTheEnd

He’d have to ignore the Hastert rule. No way he gets a majority of Repubs to vote for anything.

The Hastert rule is stupid when the leader of your party constantly throws you under the bus.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@galen_ubal

Depends. If a bill is put forward which basically reiterates DACA, then the Dems will probably welcome it. Certain Republicans won’t, but it should still pass.

If certain poison pills that have been floated get tacked on - funding for that ridiculous border wall - then it won’t get much Democratic support, and the far-right Republicans may not accept it either.

You don’t need far right Republicans.

So you’re telling me that funding the ridiculous border wall would make Democrats vote down the Dream Act?

I bet they could tack on funding for the wall, eliminating the family reunion provisions for greencards (except for children and spouses), more greencards for highly skilled workers, and still get a majority of the Democrats to vote for it.

The Democrats are in the minority, the next election is more than a year away, they don’t get to demand a clean Dream Act bill, Ryan and McConnell get to decide the agenda and if they want to lard up the Dream Act with border wall funding and more restrictions on family reunification, the Democrats can accept it or wait until they win back both chambers. Certainly not in time to prevent the lapse of the executive order.

[Iggy]

@Miller

Do you have a quote from Obama saying that? Because none of the ones you’ve posted so far come close.

Politifact took a run at a statement by U.S. Rep. Bob Goodlatte that Obama said 22 times he lacks power to change immigration law. Poltifact rated that as Mostly True.

Obama made clear statements about the limited reach of executive authority on multiple occasions.

@March 28

With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive orders, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed - and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard, so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.

There are enough laws on the books that are very clear in terms of how we enforce our immigration system that for me to, simply through executive order, ignore these constitutional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as president. That does not mean, though, that we can’t make decisions, for example, to emphasize enforcement on those who’ve engaged in criminal activity.

Obama made statements that he is “not a king” when asked about unilaterally instating a moratorium on deportations of non-criminal immigrants.

The Poltifact article details many more statements with Obama reflecting on the limitations of executive authority. Prosecutorial discretion does permit prioritizing one over the other. It is not so clear that prosecutorial discretion can provide a legal bar against future enforcement action or to provide work permits to persons who are legally prohibited from immigrating by the plain language of the INA.

[Buck_Godot]

Now it appears that Trump is making motions in the direction that he will take actionif Congress doesn’t pass legislation regarding DACA. To me this means basically doing exactly the same things that he called out for being criminal and unconstitutional under Obama.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Damuri_Ajashi

Ryan and McConnell get to decide the agenda

Ha ha ha!

All Ryan and McConnell seem to be capable of is standing around with dumbfounded expressions on their faces, as they get completely blindsided.

[JohnT]

Most sane Democrats realize this stupid wall will be a way to funnel Federal $ to some of the poorest communities in America, while the wall itself will either never be built or be useless the day it’s complete.

Dems also realize that there are powerful elements within the border States themselves… conservative elements… that won’t want their land being taken or their right-of-ways impeded, which will further complicate things until Dipshit turns to something else, gets voted out, impeached, serves 8 years, whatever.

[JohnT]

I’m positive Okrah is thrilled that, in this newfounded spirit of bipartisanship, DJT is taking tweeting instructions from Nancy Pelosi about DACA.

#FromTheManyOne

[Okrahoma]

@JohnT

I’m positive Okrah is thrilled that, in this newfounded spirit of bipartisanship, DJT is taking tweeting instructions from Nancy Pelosi about DACA.

I am thrilled with Trump for the same reason that I voted for him. He is a disruptor. And he keeps disrupting. He disrupts Democrats and he disrupts Republicans. And the more they fight him, the more disruption. So, no disappointment.

And if, along with the disruption, some things happen that I like (such as the SC appointment) then even better.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Okrahoma

I am thrilled with Trump for the same reason that I voted for him. He is a disruptor. And he keeps disrupting. He disrupts Democrats and he disrupts Republicans. And the more they fight him, the more disruption. So, no disappointment.

And if, along with the disruption, some things happen that I like (such as the SC appointment) then even better.

I know several conservatives who don’t really give a shit what any president does as long as they keep pushing the court towards an overturn of roe v wade.

[Ravenman]

You know what else were disrupters?

The damned raccoons who kept overturning my trash cans.

[rbroome]

@Okrahoma

I am thrilled with Trump for the same reason that I voted for him. He is a disruptor. And he keeps disrupting. He disrupts Democrats and he disrupts Republicans. And the more they fight him, the more disruption. So, no disappointment.

And if, along with the disruption, some things happen that I like (such as the SC appointment) then even better.

This.
People have to remember that Trump supporters are first and foremost against the status quo. Any time Trump upsets either the Dems or the Reps, the supporters are getting what they voted for.

Two things always stick in my mind as I try to understand Trump (I still haven’t accomplished that).

In my precinct, the polling captain commented that she didn’t remember having to show so many people how to use the voting machines. We have been using those electronic voting machines for 20 years. Those voters have NEVER (well in at least 20 years, which meant they had to register) voted before. But they came out to vote for Trump. In significant numbers.

A reporter asked a Trump supporter, as he was going in to a rally, why he supported Trump. “The Wall!” Well, what if Trump doesn’t build the wall? “Well, I trust his judgement.”

The depth of anger at the status quo is hard for us status quoers to comprehend.
To deal with that, establishment politicians will have to believably come out for change, something few of them have done so far, or magically fix the status quo. That latter is going to be Trump’s biggest problem. If the status quo keeps getting better on it’s own, his reason for existing is going to weaken.