# I don't have time for this "e-mail" crap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587 "2007-11-15T21:03:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/1 "2007-11-15T21:03:57Z")
“I don’t have time to learn how to use e-mail! Just write me a letter!” “I don’t have time for these conference calls! If you have something to say, just come see me!” God I hate these people. Refusing to use modern communication techniques does not make you refreshingly different, or principled, or anything like that. It makes you a fucking pain in the ass. I have heard each of the above things spoken. My response to the first: if you wait for a letter from me, you will hear nothing. It is much easier for me to send an e-mail then to handwrite a letter, find your address (by phone, probably, since i can’t e-mail you for it), buy a stamp and an envelope (because I am not in the habit of using this medium of correspondence, I do not have such tools lying around), put them all together in the appropriate configuration, and remember to mail it, all in a timely manner. You are thus inconveniencing me enormously for the sake of your quaint anti-technology attitude. The second statement was heard on a _province-wide_ (note, Ontario is a [big](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario) province) conference call. The lady in question honestly said “Don’t waste my time with the phone, if you want to talk to me just come see me in Kitchener.” Because that is so much more productive a use of my time. There were people she was talking to who lived a three day drive away. I also had to work with a lady who steadfastly refused to learn how to do anything on her computer, because she could always find someone to do it for her. If she wanted a hyperlink inserted in her Word document, for instance, she would print out the document, and write the url on the sheet with a pen, and add a little narrative note to describe what she wanted done, then bring it over to me, and explain it, and stand over my shoulder while she watched me do it, all because that was EASIER than learning how to do it her own damned self, and I was a mere temp so I couldn’t tell her where to get off. The worst part is the smug self-satisfaction that these people ooze. The derision with which they look down their noses at people who are slaves to their e-mail and Facebook and so on and so forth. The superiority they feel from requiring their correspondents to jump through hoops to meet their own obsolete communications demands. Related rant: the people whose complaints about technology (often the same people as above) amount to complaints that they have no interest in being online 24-7 and reporting the minutae of their lives on Facebook. Certainly there are people who waste all their time online and whose personal lives play second fiddle to their blackberries. Guess what assholes? Their problem is not with technology, it is with time management. I manage to have e-mail and facebook and still not be on call 24/7. If you want to inconvenience me by refusing to respond to anything but smoke signals, at least have the fucking skirt to admit it’s because you’re too lazy/stupid/frightened to learn how to use Microsoft Windows. ---
**Author:** ![Contrary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Contrary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrary)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/2 "2007-11-15T21:22:49Z")
Oh my yes. I am consulting for a company who wants me to recommend a new software tool to manage a specific set of processes necessary for developing and delivering their products to market. In spite of a lovely kick-off meeting earlier this week to launch the new process (greatly simplified, I might add, and one that will save them both time and money), I don’t believe they will follow the new process any more than they’ve ever followed the old process. Why? Well one of their key players will not do anything outside the current (non-process) routine she’s established. So—for example—when a document needs to be reviewed, she insists that the reviewers insert TEXT BOXES with their comments, and then draw little ARROWS to indicate where the changes should be made. Um hello? How about track changes? Oh no, no, no, we can’t use THAT. This company has an online tool that would simplify some of what they do. Said Luddite who won’t use track changes is PROUD that she does not even know how to access the tool, and flat out told me she hasn’t used it in months. I suspect she hasn’t used it in years. Honestly this company would be better off sticking with Big Chief tablets and #2 lead pencils. It would be cheaper for them, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/3 "2007-11-15T21:26:37Z")
Does this mean I have to learn that fucking text-messaging bullshit? Because I don’t want to. Because I’m too lazy and it’s a waste of fucking time. K? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/4 "2007-11-15T21:29:19Z")
There’s an analogous problem, and that’s the people who get email, and even reply to email, without having read a single thing in it. Case in point: I sent an email to my soccer team last night. Then I get these replies: “What color are the shirts?” “What time is the game?” Um… you might want to consult _the first paragraph_ of the thing you’re replying to. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/5 "2007-11-15T21:31:22Z")
[QUOTE=McNew] Does this mean I have to learn that fucking text-messaging bullshit? Because I don’t want to. Because I’m too lazy and it’s a waste of fucking time. K? [/QUOTE] Is your refusal to learn it wasting anyone else’s time? If not, I have no dispute with you. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/6 "2007-11-15T21:33:00Z")
People think I’m a fucking genius because I know how to set Excel worksheets to print on one page. I have wet dreams of the day, someday in the far off future, when I’m important enough to not have to take care of myself. I’m just gonna start data-dumping all my obvious genius/acquired know-how out of my brain and then roll around in all my money when I’m done. It’s gonna be great! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/7 "2007-11-15T21:37:55Z")
I used to have this boss who said “If you’re having problems with people, stop emailing them, get up and go to their desk to talk to them, or have a meeting!” Fair enough advice within limits, I guess. The next day he went ballistic because none of the people he wanted to talk with were at their desks. He fumed about sandbaggers, abuse of long lunch hours, flextime, telecommuting, etc. The real cause? Everyone had followed his advice… they were in face-to-face meetings in conference rooms or at someone else’s desk. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/8 "2007-11-15T21:38:10Z")
I have a rule of thumb: anyone under 60 who doesn’t use e-mail probably doesn’t have anything worth e-mailing me anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/9 "2007-11-15T21:38:12Z")
[QUOTE=cowgirl] Is your refusal to learn it wasting anyone else’s time? [/QUOTE] Ooooo, wittle **cowgirl**! How cute, thinking your time is important!!! 🙂 (Please don’t kill me. On the one-hand, people seem to think I can answer questions my boss gets paid six-figures to answer. On the other, no one will learn how to replace the ink cartridge in the copier because that’s the secretary’s job.) ---
**Author:** ![Canadiangirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Canadiangirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadiangirl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/10 "2007-11-15T21:39:50Z")
We have interoffice messaging; internet email; mike systems. We just got our monthly phone bill: 10 1/2 hours were spent on our toll free line fielding incoming calls from head office! ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/11 "2007-11-15T23:21:56Z")
Sometimes I think [Donald Knuth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Knuth) was right. He intentionally disconnected himself from email on January 1, 1990. > [@](#): > > I have been a happy man ever since January 1, 1990, when I no longer had an email address. I’d used email since about 1975, and it seems to me that 15 years of email is plenty for one lifetime. > > [Knuth versus Email](http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html) When all the “modern conveniences” become mainly a time sink and source of aggravation, maybe it’s time to rethink our relationship to technology. Whether at home or work, it’s too inexpensive for some random idiot to waste my time. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/12 "2007-11-15T23:35:44Z")
I got in a huge fight with my dad a little while back about him snickering at my use of technology. I got a text message from my brother, who was at a playoff baseball game, telling me where he was sitting. I was in the middle of messaging him back to ask him what he was wearing when my dad gave me this look - the same look he might give me if I had just said “cock” in front of my mother or something - and said “why don’t you just caaaaaall him, it’d be so much easier.” My head nearly exploded from the ignorance in that statement. Call a guy who is at the loudest place in Cleveland right now? Call a guy who probably has a beer in one hand and a hot dog in the other and hope that he picks up? Just to ask him a 2-second question that I could stand to wait 2 more hours to be answered? WHEN I COULD JUST SEND HIM A FUCKING MESSAGE?? This look and sneer was from the same guy who likes to call me and tell me he is calling from his cell phone just because he’s out. The same guy who oogles over the new convenience of being able to “tape” one’s program on the DVR. The same guy who has no problem popping the new-fangled drug technology that is Vicodin. There’s an old way to do things, and there’s a better way of doing things. Getting harassed because you prefer the better way is just mind-boggling. I had to just up and leave, and miss seeing the game on TV, just so I didn’t haul off and hit my own dad for being such a goddamn fool. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/13 "2007-11-15T23:43:34Z")
I personally think writing letters is superior to email. Sure, it’s slower. But people actually take the time to use grammatically correct and comprehensible language and usually write longer, more complete thoughts, ones worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/14 "2007-11-16T00:33:24Z")
[QUOTE=cowgirl] “I don’t have time to learn how to use e-mail! Just write me a letter!” “I don’t have time for these conference calls! If you have something to say, just come see me!” [/QUOTE] I prefer the hybrid, “I don’t have time for these conference calls! If you have something to say, just send me a fucking email!” In which 90% of the time, a conference call is a prop to some asshats yearly review to show management how (s)he’s managing. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/15 "2007-11-16T00:35:58Z")
Is this some kind of bizarre meme that is spreading through managers like foot in mouth disease? I just got the following email from my boss this week. > [@](#): > > I was reading an article over the weekend, about a business owner in So. California, who has instructed his firm’s staff to not use email, if a phone conversation would work when communicating to others in the firm. > > It was focused on the information overload we all experience. His solution was to ignore a majority of what constitutes “incoming information”, i.e. emails, ads, spam, etc. and to use actual conversations with others as a way to communicate wherever possible…….what a concept. > > I would like to try an experiment for the remainder of this week, starting now, that would try to reduce the amount of email traffic we all experience. I find that I spend more time dealing with email than actually doing any work. > > I’d like to propose the following: > > Email is not to be used when communicating with other [department] staff within [local] offices, assuming that a phone call or personal face to face discussion would work also. > > If you need to transmit a document, then email would be appropriate, but to carry on conversations via email, does not seem to be productive, and reinforces that atmosphere of “impersonalization” (not sure if that’s a word) of the office culture. > > Let me know if anyone has any problems with this trial. Oh good! You read it in a magazine! It must be much better than what we are doing because you read it in a magazine. :rolleyes: Mind you, this is the same guy that won’t make eye contact or look away from his monitor when you stand in his door to ask him a question, and will only give monosyllabic answers when forced to. I think that he is just trying to distance himself from responsibility; it is easy to deny being told of something, not so easy when there is a paper trail. Fortunately no one seems to really be paying attention to this. Just one more way that managers are stepping away from actual management. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/16 "2007-11-16T01:07:22Z")
I totally agree favoring realtime personal communication, _when feasible_. But not all conversations need to be synchronous or require the dimension of personal presence. Using email lets you effectively carry on 20 different conversations at a time. Where the managers are getting confused is this: settling disputes, disagreements, misunderstandings, negotiations, etc. are generally better handled in person, or at least in realtime. All these things are the manager’s sole job description. Thus, managers are better off doing ditching email and doing everything in person. Unfortunately they think everyone should do what they do, so then they make this nonsense decision prohibiting people from using email to transmit _actual information_. This same boss… when we used to gripe about the excess of meetings, he’d scoff “You whiners should see my schedule… nothing but meetings 8 to 5.” To which we replied… “yeah, but your job is to sit in meetings. Ours is to write software.” He stalked off nonplussed. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/17 "2007-11-16T01:08:11Z")
I wish the SDMB members who haven’t worked out how to use the spoiler tags, or worse the quote tags, would just look it up. It takes 10 seconds to learn, and less time to implement. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/18 "2007-11-16T01:15:01Z")
[QUOTE=Plynck] Mind you, this is the same guy that won’t make eye contact or look away from his monitor when you stand in his door to ask him a question, and will only give monosyllabic answers when forced to. I think that he is just trying to distance himself from responsibility; it is easy to deny being told of something, not so easy when there is a paper trail. Fortunately no one seems to really be paying attention to this. [/QUOTE] I think it’s actually a symptom of the CYA by CC: phenomenon. If you have the Amazing Exploding Boss, then people will tend to copy him on every decision and update just to cover their own tails. If he is managing too many people directly, then he’ll get buried in mail. If he gets buried in mail, then he’ll feel like communications are out of control, and come up with a bunch of dumb ideas to address the wrong problem. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/19 "2007-11-16T01:22:30Z")
I waste an enormous amount of time and money coming to “face to face” interviews with clients because they “want to see who they’re working with. I can’t trust someone unless I have them in front of me once.” But here’s the kicker - in my business, I charge them for me coming there. Do you realize how expensive that is? My company is now charging $1500 a day for my time, and 10% on top of actual expenses. If I have to fly to Pittsburgh for a 2-hour meeting, I charge the prior day and the day of the meeting, plus about $800-$1200 in expenses, for a total of nearly $4-5,000. And yet…they’ll pay it! And a lot of the time it comes right out of YOUR - yes, YOU, sitting right there! - electric bills. I would much, much rather be calling in from home and saving money and time. BUT - it is true, sadly, that many of the clients do not treat you as well, and do not work with you as well, if you show up in person. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587/20 "2007-11-16T01:43:20Z")
What frustrates me the most is what has come out in most other posts: the fact that some people essentially say “waste your time writing me / coming to see me so that I don’t have to ‘waste’ _my_ time dealing with technology.” It’s that hint of selfishness that gets to me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-have-time-for-this-e-mail-crap/426587.md?page=2)