# "I don't know whom Sydney is." **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 22, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496 "2012-09-22T14:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/1 "2012-09-22T14:19:52Z")
Can we all agree that the sentence in the title is an example of overcorrection? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/2 "2012-09-22T14:24:14Z")
Depends on whether or not you know whom Sydney is. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/3 "2012-09-22T15:15:39Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Can we all agree that the sentence in the title is an example of overcorrection? 😛 Well, now, that depends. It may be undercorrection if the speaker routinely says “See that fellow over there? Him is Sidney.” ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/4 "2012-09-22T15:23:14Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Well, now, that depends. It may be undercorrection if the speaker routinely says “See that fellow over there? Him is Sidney.” Especially if Sydney’s a girl. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/5 "2012-09-22T15:39:31Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Well, now, that depends. It may be undercorrection if the speaker routinely says “See that fellow over there? Him is Sidney.” But surely the writer was thinking “it needs to be ‘whom’ because I would say ‘Sydney is him,’ not 'Sydney is he.” ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/6 "2012-09-22T15:45:17Z")
Sounds like the speaker went to night school[.](http://www.anvari.org/fortune/Miscellaneous_Collections/349551_whom-are-you-said-he-for-he-had-been-to-night-school-george-ade.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/7 "2012-09-22T16:10:20Z")
What we have here is a case of the predicate nominal. Sixty years ago and earlier, when people were still insisting that English should sound like Latin, it would have had to be “Who Sydney is,” because English used phrases like “It is I!” and “Yes, this is she.” Today we use the objective case and say things like “Hey, it’s me,” and “Yes, this is her.” The sentence in the title is tricky because it depends on which standard you follow, today’s or your grandmother’s. For some reason, even though most of the English world has moved onto using objective case in predicate nominals, it’s my impression that the old way still dominates in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/8 "2012-09-22T17:21:39Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Can we all agree that the sentence in the title is an example of overcorrection? 😛 Yes, yes we can. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/9 "2012-09-22T17:28:36Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Can we all agree that the sentence in the title is an example of overcorrection? 😛 > [@twickster](#): > > Yes, yes we can. I dunno. It could be an incomplete sentence. “I don’t know whom Sydney is [talking about].” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/10 "2012-09-22T19:09:05Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > What we have here is a case of the predicate nominal. Sixty years ago and earlier, when people were still insisting that English should sound like Latin, it would have had to be “Who Sydney is,” because English used phrases like “It is I!” and “Yes, this is she.” Today we use the objective case and say things like “Hey, it’s me,” and “Yes, this is her.” > > The sentence in the title is tricky because it depends on which standard you follow, today’s or your grandmother’s. For some reason, even though most of the English world has moved onto using objective case in predicate nominals, it’s my impression that the old way still dominates in this situation. I haven’t the slightest notion why any educated English speaker would think “I don’t know whom Sydney is” was remotely correct, notwithstanding the general acceptability of “It’s me” (shared in French, though they use the indirect object \<\<_C’est moi_\>\> and would no more think of saying \<\<_C’est je_\>\> than of eating American cheese); nor do I understand why talking about the predicate nominal offers the slightest excuse why “whom” would make an ounce of sense. Enlighten me! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/11 "2012-09-22T20:33:35Z")
Yes, it’s overcorrection . . . same as when people say “he and I,” regardless of context. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/12 "2012-09-22T22:56:17Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Especially if Sydney’s a girl. This. “who” is the masculine singular form; “whom” is the feminine singular form. Thus, “Him, who am Sydney” or “Her, whom am Sydney”. If multiple Syndies, then “Them, what are Sydnies.” ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/13 "2012-09-22T22:59:57Z")
Yes, it’s over correction. Please contact myself if you need further clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/14 "2012-09-22T23:01:48Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Yes, it’s overcorrection . . . same as when people say “he and I,” regardless of context. Sorry? He went to the store. I went to the store. He and I went to the store. The first two check out, so the third also checks out. Context kind of does matter. Or do you mean it should just be “we”? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/15 "2012-09-22T23:12:01Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Sorry? > He went to the store. > I went to the store. > **He and I went to the store.** Or, in certain latitudes, “He’un and me’un went to the store.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/16 "2012-09-22T23:44:11Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Sorry? > > He went to the store. > I went to the store. > He and I went to the store. > > The first two check out, so the third also checks out. Context kind of does matter. > > Or do you mean it should just be “we”? **panache45** is referring to a sentence like “The committee assigned he and I to the task.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/17 "2012-09-23T00:35:50Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > **panache45** is referring to a sentence like “The committee assigned he and I to the task.” Yeah, but that’s _context_. He said “regardless of context” which is where I got confused. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-know-whom-sydney-is/635496/18 "2012-09-23T02:05:15Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Yeah, but that’s _context_. He said “regardless of context” which is where I got confused. The point being idiots routinely use it in the wrong context. You provided an example of the right context, which is unremarkable, but lots of folks will blithely say “they listened to he and I” even though they would never say “they listened to he” or “they listened to I.” They are overcorrecting after being chastised for saying “him and me went to the store” – meaning they heard the criticism for their mistake, but didn’t understand it.