# I don't like Islam **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277 "2017-02-07T21:47:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/181 "2017-02-18T01:08:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > While not a wholesale Conservative, I support the death penalty, I’m pro-business, anti-recreational drugs, anti-prostitution, pro-military, small government, favor market solutions, and would gladly have voted for Romney or McCain (if McCain hadn’t chosen the airhead as his running mate). So I guess you’re a retail conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/182 "2017-02-18T01:30:01Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > So I guess you’re a retail conservative. I think that it’s fairly clear that I’m an online store. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/183 "2017-02-18T17:49:59Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How so? I don’t respond to command and control vocal tones, gestures, body postures, facial expressions, etc. My experience is that Muslims who engage in this behaviour are far more likely to continue their mind games against me (often by concocting inventive lies) than followers of other religions and ideologies. Note that I say “Muslims who engage in this behaviour” … authoritarianism coming at me from manipulative “foreigners” is not easy to combat when one runs a very real risk of being called an Islamophobe or racist. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/184 "2017-02-18T17:58:03Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > I don’t respond to command and control vocal tones, gestures, body postures, facial expressions, etc. My experience is that Muslims who engage in this behaviour are far more likely to continue their mind games against me (often by concocting inventive lies) than followers of other religions and ideologies. Note that I say “Muslims who engage in this behaviour” … authoritarianism coming at me from manipulative “foreigners” is not easy to combat when one runs a very real risk of being called an Islamophobe or racist. It sounds like there are some fascinating stories behind this paragraph. I hope you’ll share some of them with us some time. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/185 "2017-02-18T18:12:58Z")
Americans ask, “Why do they hate us?” Here’s a good article giving the answer: [Why Do So Many Americans Fear Muslims? Decades of Denial About America’s Role in the World.](https://theintercept.com/2017/02/18/why-do-so-many-americans-fear-muslims-decades-of-denial-about-americas-role-in-the-world/) \*"… **Meanwhile, in private, the non-crazy members of the U.S. foreign policy establishment aren’t confused at all. They understand quite well that Islamist terrorism is almost wholly blowback from the foreign policy they’ve designed.** Richard Shultz, a professor at Tufts whose career has long been intertwined with the national security state, has written that “A very senior [Special Operations Forces] officer who had served on the Joint Staff in the 1990s told me that more than once he heard terrorist strikes characterized as ‘a small price to pay for being a superpower.’” That small price, of course, is the deaths of regular Americans, and is apparently well worth it. The 9/11 Commission report quietly acknowledged, hundreds of pages in, that “America’s policy choices have consequences. Right or wrong, it is simply a fact that American policy regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and American actions in Iraq are dominant staples of popular commentary across the Arab and Muslim world.” A senior official in the George W. Bush administration later put it more bluntly to Esquire: That without the post-Gulf War sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and the stationing of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, “bin Laden might still be redecorating mosques and boring friends with stories of his mujahideen days in the Khyber Pass.” Intelligence professionals were quite aware that an invasion of Iraq would take the conditions that led to 9/11 and make them far worse. …"\* ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/186 "2017-02-18T18:15:38Z")
**GreenWyvern** : While you make some good points, it’s completely wrong to blame America only, or even America first. The British and French did more to fuck up the Near East than the U.S. did. If your source had blamed “The West,” I’d be on board with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/187 "2017-02-18T18:22:36Z")
Can we somehow get Islam and Catholicism to mutually cancel? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/188 "2017-02-18T18:37:18Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > **GreenWyvern** : While you make some good points, it’s completely wrong to blame America only, or even America first. The British and French did more to fuck up the Near East than the U.S. did. > > If your source had blamed “The West,” I’d be on board with it. Good point, and I mostly agree. But the US has taken the lead in aggression against Middle East for the past few decades. I think most Americans don’t realise just how aggressive, violent, and destructive their foreign policy has been for the past 50 years or so, not only in the Middle East, but in South America, South-east Asia, and Africa. They are told soothing do-gooder stories by their politicians, and mostly they believe them. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/189 "2017-02-18T18:47:28Z")
According to the CIA World Factbook 99.8% of Turks are Muslims … the remaining 0.2% being mainly Christians and Jews. My experience of Turkish people in London is that most of them come across to me as not being “religious” in tne way they conduct their lives … Islam is in no way the primary driving force behind their thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/190 "2017-02-18T22:51:15Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > I don’t respond to command and control vocal tones, gestures, body postures, facial expressions, etc. My experience is that Muslims who engage in this behaviour are far more likely to continue their mind games against me (often by concocting inventive lies) than followers of other religions and ideologies. Note that I say “Muslims who engage in this behaviour” … authoritarianism coming at me from manipulative “foreigners” is not easy to combat when one runs a very real risk of being called an Islamophobe or racist. What? ---
**Author:** ![Jefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@Jefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jefferson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/191 "2017-02-19T19:09:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > While not a wholesale Conservative, I support the death penalty, I’m pro-business, anti-recreational drugs, anti-prostitution, pro-military, small government, favor market solutions, and would gladly have voted for Romney or McCain (if McCain hadn’t chosen the airhead as his running mate). > > And, knowing Dawkins, I would presume that he would say the exact same thing about Christianity as he has of Islam. > > I’ll also note that you still haven’t really said anything of substance nor made any real argument beyond assertion. While I would argue against Dawkins, I’d at least respect that he had an argument that made some form of sense and was backed in history (presumably). As I’ve already pointed out in the thread, the scriptural teachings of Islam (and Christianity) are reprehensible. And it is fair to criticize them for that. Similarly it’s fair to criticize the colonialists, Islamic terrorists, etc. In many ways I would accept a statement that Islam is Evil. I just wouldn’t accept a stupid nor hypocritical argument to that effect. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher both make a big distinction between Islam and Christianity. They have no time for those “liberals” who try to make the equivalence ploy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/192 "2017-02-19T22:49:27Z")
> [@Jefferson](#): > > Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher both make a big distinction between Islam and Christianity. They have no time for those “liberals” who try to make the equivalence ploy. So, they are equivalent in their xenophobia. In any event, if they have something against “liberals”, (your scare quotes appear to indicate you are talking about some other group rather than actual liberals), it is pretty much irrelevant to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/193 "2017-02-19T23:40:07Z")
> [@Jefferson](#): > > Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher both make a big distinction between Islam and Christianity. They have no time for those “liberals” who try to make the equivalence ploy. Well, good for them. What does that have to do with the beliefs you hold? At most, you seem to be saying that you’re pro-Islam simply because Maher and Dawkins are, or because you want to oppose what “liberals” think. Personally, I recommend thinking for yourself, rather than taking positions on things just to keep in or out of some particular group. ---
**Author:** ![Jefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@Jefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jefferson)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/194 "2017-02-20T09:37:31Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Well, good for them. What does that have to do with the beliefs you hold? At most, you seem to be saying that you’re pro-Islam simply because Maher and Dawkins are, or because you want to oppose what “liberals” think. > > Personally, I recommend thinking for yourself, rather than taking positions on things just to keep in or out of some particular group. I’m not pro Islam - and never have been. Just pointing out not all liberals accept the nonsense line about Islam and Christianity being of the same concern. It’s you that needs to think for yourself, instead of blindly taking the PC line. ---
**Author:** ![Jefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@Jefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jefferson)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/195 "2017-02-20T09:41:43Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So, they are equivalent in their xenophobia. > > In any event, if they have something against “liberals”, (your scare quotes appear to indicate you are talking about some other group rather than actual liberals), it is pretty much irrelevant to this thread. Do you seriously think they are xenophobic because they think it ridiculous to claim Islam and Christianity are equally of concern? It’s no wonder they are so dismayed by “liberals”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/196 "2017-02-20T11:16:47Z")
> [@Jefferson](#): > > Do you seriously think they are xenophobic because they think it ridiculous to claim Islam and Christianity are equally of concern? > > It’s no wonder they are so dismayed by “liberals”. I think that it is xenophobic to regard any group of over a billion people that differs from oneself as “dangerous.” And your repeated use of scare quotes regarding “liberals” is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Jefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@Jefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jefferson)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/197 "2017-02-20T17:00:05Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > This is true, but much greater progress can be made in preventing terrorism of any kind by focusing on preventing terrorist acts themselves. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people in this country who identify with white nationalism. Only a vanishingly small percentage engage in terrorist activities. There’s no value in putting the hammer down on white nationalists but there is value in identifying those white nationalists who absorb the rhetoric and believe it means they need to kill Muslims, blacks, etc. > > There are hundreds of thousands of young, angry males with a fascination for guns in this country, but targeting all of these people isn’t a very effective strategy in preventing incidents like the Aurora Theater shooting. > > There may be hundreds of thousands of conservative young Muslims in this country, but targeting them as a group jus because they are Muslim is certainly not going to prevent terrorism and mass killings of all types in this country and it is insurmountably difficult to target all these individuals in order to prevent a terrorist attack resultant from their interpretation of Islam. > > It’s hard to understand the individual characteristics of a group when they are foreign to what you grew up with, but with time and effort we can go from ignorantly hating Islam because of some websites and excerpts from a book to understanding the religion in all its forms and the individuals who are a part of the religion, including the criminals. Do you not follow the news,even? ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/198 "2017-02-20T18:00:27Z")
> [@Jefferson](#): > > I’m not looking at history - comforting as it may be for “liberals” - check out what is happening around the world NOW. You really should watch some Bill Maher clips - google: Maher+ stupid liberals+Islam I have finally done as you asked and watched a few clips of Bill Maher. (I live in Europe and was not familiar with the name so far.) To my surprise I found his line of argument to be not unreasonable. I do not agree with him on all counts, but he certainly is making a few good points. Basically what he is saying is that all religions are stupid and dangerous but that Islam is more dangerous than others. But he does not stop there. He says that Islam needs to be reformed, that moderate Muslims should be empowered. He specifically has hailed the fact that London elected a moderate Muslim as it’s Mayor. He has called the travel ban un-american and not helpful and predicted that it was only going to make things worse. So in short he is far from the raving islamophobe that I had half expected. I take him for someone who is actually looking for a solution to the problems we are faced with. Since you pointed him out to me, may I ask: Does your agreement with Bill Maher’s positions and ideas go beyond the simple _"Muslims are bad!_" sermon? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/199 "2017-02-20T18:10:36Z")
> [@Jefferson](#): > > I’m not pro Islam - and never have been. Just pointing out not all liberals accept the nonsense line about Islam and Christianity being of the same concern. It’s you that needs to think for yourself, instead of blindly taking the PC line. Christianity and Islam are of the same concern: quite little, actually. Radicalized Muslims and Christians are dangerous. There may be more of the former. But that does not mean that Islam is more dangerous, only that it contains more bad guys. New York City contains more bad guys than Chicago. Therefore New York is dangerous, and should be shunned. No one from New York should be allowed to enter Chicago. Someone could start a thread on “I don’t like New York.” ---
**Author:** ![Jefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@Jefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jefferson)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277/200 "2017-02-21T18:58:38Z")
For all the howls from celebs about Trump trying to cut down terrorist threats getting into the country, we don’t seem to hear anything from them when it comes to (just one example) the case reported, by some,this past week concerning the woman flogged with a cane in public, in Indonesia, as a punishment from a Sharia court-in front of a crowd of cheering males. Allahu Akbar indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-like-islam/779277.md?page=11)