# I don't think Biden should bother debating Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 12, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536 "2020-06-12T14:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/21 "2020-06-12T19:25:37Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > If he isn’t a doddering old man, then what is he? C’mon, open you’re eyes. This is in the eye of the beholder. To me Biden seems steady and stately, and he’s saying the right things. He’s presidential even. Trump is incoherent on the best day. Have you ever watched him when he’s not on teleprompter, and sometimes even when he is? It’s a jumbled mess that jumps from one topic to the next in thought fragments. People tie themselves in knots trying to parse his meaning. He meant this. He was referring to that. It should stop. He says what he says and everyone should see it. He’s a bumbling, muddled, doddering man. > [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Trump calling Biden on incoherence, or claiming a mental decline by Biden, reminds me of the line about pulling the plank from one’s own eye before pulling the speck out of someone else’s. Or pots calling kettles black, to get non-biblical. I had not heard the plank and speck reference before. I like it. ---
**Author:** ![Aescwynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Aescwynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aescwynn)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/22 "2020-06-12T19:44:07Z")
I don’t know, I watched Biden in some of the Democratic debates, and though he didn’t light up the room, he followed along OK and held his own. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/23 "2020-06-12T19:55:58Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I agree. Biden does not have the capacity to say anything intelligible without a teleprompter. While Trump cannot say anything intelligible eveb with a teleprompter. One thing that disturbs me about Trump is that when he leaves office he will still not be prosecuted for his many crimes since his will successfully argue that his dementia is so advanced that he is unfit to stand trial. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/24 "2020-06-12T20:32:11Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > While Trump cannot say anything intelligible eveb with a teleprompter. > > One thing that disturbs me about Trump is that when he leaves office he will still not be prosecuted for his many crimes since his will successfully argue that his dementia is so advanced that he is unfit to stand trial. Even then, he probably won’t be so out of it that he will not see his kids all going to jail. (Except Barron and probably Tiffany) ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/25 "2020-06-12T20:41:26Z")
Biden has always been gaffe-prone. “I’m told Chuck Graham, state senator, is here. Stand up Chuck, let 'em see you. Oh, God love you. What am I talking about. I’ll tell you what, you’re making everybody else stand up, though, pal.” at least it’s a “oops, my bad” instead of “I never said that.” ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/26 "2020-06-12T20:43:37Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > If he isn’t a doddering old man, then what is he? C’mon, open you’re eyes. If Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren had no cause to raise questions about his mental state, I don’t see why you or I are in any better position to. To the subject of the thread: I can see both sides here. I guess it depends whether you think Trump’s responses to direct questions about coronavirus, police brutality, or the economy will move the needle any. He’s lied and blustered about stuff before, but these are subjects most Americans will have very invested opinions on, and it’s not like he’s not going to be lying anyway in every TV ad. Actually having him talk about it live could make an impression. Anyway, I’m not sure it’s politically wise of Biden to refuse to debate. I realize the good reasons, but it just doesn’t feel like it’s DONE. I think it may do more harm than good. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/27 "2020-06-13T03:18:58Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > To me Biden seems steady and stately, and he’s saying the right things. He’s presidential even. How 'bout this [recent one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPAWh_KZMVc) (apparently while reading printed notes)? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/28 "2020-06-13T04:54:34Z")
You just know Trump the Taunter will spend the debate trying to find something to get under Biden’s skin. My fear is that he’ll succeed, Joltin’ Joe will get mad and go off track… and say something that will hurt him in the election. Now, if Joe smokes a joint beforehand and stays mellow while Trump goes off the rails, that’s what I’ll want to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/29 "2020-06-13T05:26:51Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Now, if Joe smokes a joint beforehand and stays mellow while Trump goes off the rails, that’s what I’ll want to watch. Screw that, I want to see Joe smoking a joint DURING the debate while Trump goes off the rails. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/30 "2020-06-13T05:40:08Z")
It would obviously be a horrible mistake for Biden to avoid the debates. He will look weak and Trump will crow about it every day. Trump is a weak debater who was comfortably beaten by Hillary. Biden is past his best but still an OK debater and he will beat Trump too. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/31 "2020-06-13T06:50:48Z")
NOT debating Trump would allow Trump to control the narrative. He’d have an open forum to say that Biden is too senile and scared to debate him. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/32 "2020-06-13T08:55:13Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I agree. Biden does not have the capacity to say anything intelligible without a teleprompter. This is in contrast to Trump, who is a better orator than Pericles, Cicero, Demosthenes, Daniel Webster, Abe Lincoln, and Alex Jones all put together. Everybody says so . (Did you know Daniel Webster was a National Republican? Not many people know that.) ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/33 "2020-06-13T09:47:59Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > This horseshit didn’t stick when they threw it at Obama, but I suppose there’s no harm in trying again. This time, the democrats are saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/34 "2020-06-13T17:15:27Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > In a debate, inducing your opponent to tell lies is known as “winning”. Only if the public recognizes them as lies, and appropriately penalizes the lying candidate by withholding their vote from him. Otherwise it might actually be “losing.” ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/35 "2020-06-13T17:55:51Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > \ > > I had not heard the plank and speck reference before. I like it. This dude named Jesus said it. He said a lot of pithy things. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/36 "2020-06-13T18:35:41Z")
Biden is going to have to debate Trump. There’s no way out of that. However, as others have said, this is the time for unorthodox maneuvers during the debate. Biden doesn’t have to just respond to everything Trump says at face value. He has a number of other options. After a particularly egregious remark by Trump, he could simply shake his head and calmly say “bullshit.” Trump is not going to expect to have any profanity used against him. HE’S the one who has broken that taboo of saying things like “we’re going to bomb the shit out of ISIS” in official speeches, and he thinks HE’S the only one who CAN break that taboo. I think he’d be quite rattled if Biden simply paused for a beat and said - calmly but loudly - “Bullshit.” He could get personal. I think it’s common knowledge that Trump idealizes his father. It’s perhaps one of his only examples of relatable humanity. Biden could say at some point, “your father was a scumbag con man, and you are a scumbag con man. Your whole family are scumbag. con. men. What do you think about THAT?” Trump, again, thinks that HE is the only one who can go after other peoples’ family members - he’s done it time and time again. He is not expecting anyone else to flip the script on him. It would throw him off his game during the debate. Biden could deliver a scathing monologue against Trump - calmly and methodically - and wait for Trump to inevitably interrupt him. Upon being interrupted, he should simply continue to deliver the monologue. Think of it as a filibuster. Trump would just keep trying to talk over him, but Biden would have to bulldoze straight ahead with the monologue and pretend that Trump’s not even there, so audiences would just hear Trump attempting to get a word in edgewise again and again and failing. It would be highly aggravating for Trump because, again, HE thinks HE’s the only guy who can get away with talking over other people. These are just a few tactics that Biden could employ. The common theme here is to attempt to undermine Trump’s debate performance by sabotaging the rhetorical techniques that he typically uses, or turning them against him. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/37 "2020-06-13T18:37:13Z")
How certain are you that _Trump_ will debate? In January he had a lot of complaints about whether the commission was fair, and how biased the 2016 debates were, etc. He intimated then that he might not debate. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/38 "2020-06-13T18:46:41Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > This is in contrast to Trump, who is a better orator than Pericles, Cicero, Demosthenes, Daniel Webster, Abe Lincoln, and Alex Jones all put together. Everybody says so . (Did you know Daniel Webster was a National Republican? Not many people know that.) In fact, people crawl up to him all the time and ask (obsequiously) “Sir, did you teach Plato and all those ancient German philos. . .pelosi. . .thinkers how to think good?” ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/39 "2020-06-13T19:18:46Z")
Wow. A record. A fucking hour and a half fucking 502 timeout. (pretty well almost right after **Lantern** coommented) 'the fuck was I - oh, yeah - > [@Lantern](#): > > It would obviously be a horrible mistake for Biden to avoid the debates. He will look weak and Trump will crow about it every day. Trump is a weak debater who was comfortably beaten by Hillary. Biden is past his best but still an OK debater and he will beat Trump too. > [@Superdude](#): > > NOT debating Trump would allow Trump to control the narrative. He’d have an open forum to say that Biden is too senile and scared to debate him. These. Notwithstanding the fact that no other dem candidate would have even _come close_ to standing up to, dealing with, and curbstomping right back at Trump in such, yes, ulitmately farcicial debates, Biden is definitely feared most by Trump for debating becuase he knows that any smear that he throws Biden’s way, the latter will so _easily_ be able to throw whatever smear right back at him, [twofold](https://theweek.com/articles/901735/why-trump-fears-biden), not to mention the [pandemic throwing a wrench in the gears of Trump’s election team trying to define Biden in the negative light they had hoped to.](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/trump-biden-coronavirus-136197) > [@](#): > > But some Democrats are skeptical that Trump will have the same ability to tattoo Biden. David Axelrod, who served as senior strategist on Obama’s reelection effort, contended the former vice president is far better known than Romney was at this point in 2012 — and therefore will be harder to redefine. > > “It’s a very complicated challenge for the Trump team,” Axelrod said. > > The Trump campaign faces other complications, such as determining how they want to go after Biden. While Trump’s team has tried to brand the 77-year-old former vice president as senile, there is some skepticism among his advisers about whether it will prove effective. And as I mentioned in some other thread, it will ALL come down to the blue collar voters and fence sitters in MI/Wi/PA, viewing these debates. They need to be reached. Biden is the only dem candidate that would suit their optics, no? An intellectually dominant Warren would be percieved by this enlightened bunch as some finger-waving schoolmarm, amd conversely, all other dem candidates would have come across to these trogs as effete or a woman’s libber in a debate scenario. (heh, rememeber that phrase?) WE BADLY NEED THOSE VOTES. Joe would address that situation way more effectively than anyone else would. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536/40 "2020-06-13T19:36:37Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Biden is going to have to debate Trump. There’s no way out of that. > > However, as others have said, this is the time for unorthodox maneuvers during the debate. Biden doesn’t have to just respond to everything Trump says at face value. He has a number of other options. > > After a particularly egregious remark by Trump, he could simply shake his head and calmly say “bullshit.” Trump is not going to expect to have any profanity used against him. HE’S the one who has broken that taboo of saying things like “we’re going to bomb the shit out of ISIS” in official speeches, and he thinks HE’S the only one who CAN break that taboo. I think he’d be quite rattled if Biden simply paused for a beat and said - calmly but loudly - “Bullshit.” > > He could get personal. I think it’s common knowledge that Trump idealizes his father. It’s perhaps one of his only examples of relatable humanity. Biden could say at some point, “your father was a scumbag con man, and you are a scumbag con man. Your whole family are scumbag. con. men. What do you think about THAT?” Trump, again, thinks that HE is the only one who can go after other peoples’ family members - he’s done it time and time again. He is not expecting anyone else to flip the script on him. It would throw him off his game during the debate. > > Biden could deliver a scathing monologue against Trump - calmly and methodically - and wait for Trump to inevitably interrupt him. Upon being interrupted, he should simply continue to deliver the monologue. Think of it as a filibuster. Trump would just keep trying to talk over him, but Biden would have to bulldoze straight ahead with the monologue and pretend that Trump’s not even there, so audiences would just hear Trump attempting to get a word in edgewise again and again and failing. It would be highly aggravating for Trump because, again, HE thinks HE’s the only guy who can get away with talking over other people. > > These are just a few tactics that Biden could employ. The common theme here is to attempt to undermine Trump’s debate performance by sabotaging the rhetorical techniques that he typically uses, or turning them against him. I agree… if Biden can pull it off. I’m not giving Biden a hard time here, I’m just saying that it’s actually hard to be rude when it’s not your natural instinct. Most people want to get along and give eachother the benefit of the doubt. That is exactly what Trump exploits. To actually use that technique, that would be hard for someone who isn’t an asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-biden-should-bother-debating-trump/855536.md?page=3)