# I don't think Hillary can win. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184 "2015-03-28T03:51:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/1 "2015-03-28T03:51:15Z")
It’s March of 2015, so naturally the 2016 election season is well underway. Pundits are pondering the tough questions. Can anyone stop the Martin O’Malley juggernaut? Will Bernie Sanders make his opponents quake in their boots? Yet despite the desperate attempts to bring Elizabeth Warren or Al Gore into the race, most Democrats seem to have a fatalistic acceptance that Hillary will be their nominee. So what is Hillary going to run on? I’ve been reading articles about her campaign for months and the main facts seem to be: (1) Hillary is married to former president Bill Clinton. (2) Hillary is female. (3) Hillary can raise lots and lots money thanks to her working relationship with many very rich people. All very true, but not much as far as qualifications for the presidency. Hillary was a senator for eight years and Secretary of State for four. What did she accomplish in that time? What does she have to boast about during those twelve years? I’ve heard some say she was successful as Secretary of State, but actual examples of her successes are never named. She [chose not to](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/07/hillary-s-state-department-refused-to-brand-boko-haram-as-terrorists.html) officially designate Boko Haram as a terrorist group, a decision that was quickly overruled by her successor, John Kerry. She took part in administration actions regarding Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Yemen, all of which have since descended into chaos. Relations with Russia don’t exactly scream ‘success’. The strategic pivot to Asia never happened. Opponents will have a field day asking, [“What has Hillary accomplished?”](http://www.unionleader.com/article/20150327/OPINION02/150329329&template=mobileart) We might then ask, what stances will be the centerpiece of her campaign? What does she care about deeply? What is she willing to fight for, even when it means taking risks? No answers seem forthcoming. If she has a firm commitment to stopping global warming, ending police brutality, balancing the budget, defending civil rights, or doing anything else, she’s not made it clear in either her past actions or her present words. She’s been touring the country charges $200,000 or more for 20-minute speeches, but she doesn’t seem to be setting audiences on fire when she does so. Speaking of which, the Clintons are quite wealthy. Estimates suggest they’ve earned a hundred million dollars. That puts them in league with John Kerry, who was widely viewed as an out-of-touch elitist during his disastrous run for President. Hillary gives little indication of being any better at connecting with the non-super-wealthy. This week she [promised](http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/03/hillary_clinton_jokes_with_press_about_ending_zone_of_privacy_at_syracuse_univer.html) “No more secrecy, no more zone of privacy” at a press event, then refused to take questions. [Before that](http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/03/hillary_clinton_jokes_with_press_about_ending_zone_of_privacy_at_syracuse_univer.html), it was an “informal conversation” that was scripted beforehand. Clearly someone thinks Hillary is better off not speaking off-the-cuff. I’d say they’re right. The polls show Hillary above Republican rivals, but not by a large margin. I’d say there’s plenty of time for her to drag her numbers down. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/2 "2015-03-28T04:14:37Z")
Your concern is duly noted. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/3 "2015-03-28T04:19:31Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > We might then ask, what stances will be the centerpiece of her campaign? What does she care about deeply? What is she willing to fight for, even when it means taking risks? No answers seem forthcoming. If she has a firm commitment to stopping global warming, ending police brutality, balancing the budget, defending civil rights, or doing anything else, she’s not made it clear in either her past actions or her present words. [http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-24/make-no-mistake-hillary-clinton-loves-obamacare](http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-24/make-no-mistake-hillary-clinton-loves-obamacare) > [@](#): > > Across the ideological divide, however, one prospective presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, was busy embracing the law, as well as the man who’s name is so closely associated with it. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/580132218166726656) > > Clinton, who had tried and failed to push through a single payer healthcare system as First Lady, has defended the Affordable Care Act before, even while acknowledging some of its faults. [http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/225680-clinton-calls-out-climate-deniers](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/225680-clinton-calls-out-climate-deniers) > [@](#): > > “The science of climate change is unforgiving, no matter what the deniers may say, sea levels are rising, ice caps are melting, storms, droughts and wildfires are wreaking havoc,” Clinton said, according to ABC News. > > “The political challenges are also unforgiving, there is no getting around the fact the kind of ambitious response required to effectively combat climate change is going to be a tough sell at home and around the world at a time when so many countries including our own are grappling with slow growth and stretched budgets.” > > But acknowledging the political challenges did not stop Clinton from calling for action. “If we act decisively now we can still head off the most catastrophic consequences,” she said. > > She expressed hope in technological advancements’ ability to make progress on the issue, calling to “dare greatly and lead boldly” in order to “protect our heritage and preserve our future.” > **[Hillary Clinton denounces torture, says ‘yes, black lives matter’](https://www.nydailynews.com/2014/12/17/hillary-clinton-denounces-torture-says-yes-black-lives-matter/)** > > NEW YORK — Hillary Clinton said Tuesday she’s proud to have been part of an administration that worked to ban brutal interrogations and said the U.S. should never condone or practice to… > [@](#): > > During her speech, she declared, “yes, black lives matter,” a mantra of demonstrators around the country who have been protesting recent grand jury decisions not to indict white police officers involved in the deaths of unarmed black men in Ferguson, Missouri, and in New York. > > Clinton, a former U.S. first lady, New York senator and U.S. secretary of state, is viewed as the likely Democratic presidential nominee if she runs. She was honored at the Kennedy organization’s star-studded Ripple of Hope Award ceremony. > **[What Has Hillary Clinton Done? 14 Major Accomplishments](https://www.thoughtco.com/hillary-clinton-s-accomplishments-4101811)** > > What has Hillary Clinton done? She has held integral roles such as First Lady, U.S. Senator, and Secretary of State. > [@](#): > > Clinton’s plan was well-thought out and detailed. She was the only 2008 candidate to advocate a balanced budget. Based on that, I have to say she will get my vote. As for the polls, I do know that a year from the last election Obama was ahead on the polls in the possible match-ups, however that advantage was on the single digits, high ones though. Hillary is currently (March 18 polls) ahead of the Republicans in the double digits area regarding the possible matchups in the general election. > **[Presidential General & Primary Elections | Latest Polls | RealClearPolling](https://www.realclearpolling.com/latest-polls/president)** > > Explore comprehensive coverage of 2024 presidential general and primary election latest polls. Stay informed on the latest trends and insights shaping the election. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/4 "2015-03-28T05:06:27Z")
Did you think Bill Clinton could win in 1991 or Barack Obama could win in 2007? I’m pretty sure nothing in the next year will change your mind and convince you to vote for her. But history has shown that people will elect a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/5 "2015-03-28T05:21:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [Make No Mistake, Hillary Clinton Loves Obamacare - Bloomberg](http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-24/make-no-mistake-hillary-clinton-loves-obamacare) > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/225680-clinton-calls-out-climate-deniers](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/225680-clinton-calls-out-climate-deniers) > > [Hillary Clinton denounces torture, says ‘yes, black lives matter’ – New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/hillary-clinton-denounces-torture-black-lives-matter-article-1.2048047) > > [14 Hillary Clinton Accomplishments](http://useconomy.about.com/od/fiscalpolicy/p/Hillary_Economy.htm) None of that looks terribly inspiring, IMHO. Does the speech on global warming not sound like something a consultant would write? Bland, unspecific, with no actual policies offered. Likewise on health care, Democrats got hammered on that issue in the last election. Voters will want to know how she will protect them from rising premiums, high deductibles, and so forth. Judging by her Twitter account, she hasn’t offered anything yet. > [@](#): > > As for the polls, I do know that a year from the last election Obama was ahead on the polls in the possible match-ups, however that advantage was on the single digits, high ones though. Hillary is currently (March 18 polls) ahead of the Republicans in the double digits area regarding the possible matchups in the general election. > > [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest\_polls/president/](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/) One poll shows her ahead by double digits; all the other polls taken in March show a more narrow race, at least for the leading Republican candidates. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/6 "2015-03-28T05:57:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Did you think Bill Clinton could win in 1991 or Barack Obama could win in 2007? In 2007, yes. In 1991, I was too young to contemplate the question. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/7 "2015-03-28T06:16:08Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > None of that looks terribly inspiring, IMHO. Does the speech on global warming not sound like something a consultant would write? Bland, unspecific, with no actual policies offered. What a bland unspecific reply after I showed you can not google before declaring those things about Clinton. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > One poll shows her ahead by double digits; all the other polls taken in March show a more narrow race, at least for the leading Republican candidates. And I can see that besides not googling one can notice that you are not reading carefully, you are looking there only at the polls of a state, scroll down a little for the ones I specified: the **March 18** ones about the **general election**. All of them at double digits. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/8 "2015-03-28T06:21:34Z")
For all of Hillary’s flaws as a candidate - and every candidate has flaws - almost every other potential presidential candidate seems less electable yet. So out of a weak field of contenders, Hillary arguably still stands the greatest chance of winning. If Elizabeth Warren enters the field, though, I think Warren would instantly become a real contender. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/9 "2015-03-28T06:55:51Z")
Hillary has no Charisma, at all. People are voted for her in the last primaries simply because she is simultaneously a democrat and a woman. Elizabeth Warren has charisma, character, resolve and principles. She’s 10 times the candidate Hillary is. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/10 "2015-03-28T06:58:32Z")
I think Elizabeth Warren’s most ardent supporters do not want her to run for president but to stay n the Senate and stir things up with both hands. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/11 "2015-03-28T12:07:48Z")
Can she win the Democratic primary? Not much question about that. So let’s move on to the general. True she is not a fireball of charisma and the overall impression most of get of her is that she is overall competent, intelligent, informed, and well tested. She comes off more as practical than someone who will takes great risks. For the general she will need to formulate what her vision for the future of America is and be able to articulate it. There is time for that and now is too soon. Unexciting, not a fighter, just competent, informed, and experienced … she may be the worse possible choice … except for any of the choices possible from the GOP side. Not being incompetent and/or batshit crazy is all it takes there. I am not saying she definitely will win. The election is a long long way off and lots can happen. No question though that she can win. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/12 "2015-03-28T12:48:00Z")
She certainly can win. She almost certainly would have defeated McCain in '08. That doesn’t mean she will win – assuming she is nominated, it will depend on her campaign and her opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/13 "2015-03-28T13:26:45Z")
What, it’s not gonna depend on wishful thinking or concern trolling? What an odd political system. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/14 "2015-03-28T15:08:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Did you think Bill Clinton could win in 1991 or Barack Obama could win in 2007? I’m pretty sure nothing in the next year will change your mind and convince you to vote for her. But history has shown that people will elect a Democrat. The supposition here is that a dark-horse Democrat will sweep the nation and win a presidential election…following a much-maligned Republican predecessor??? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/15 "2015-03-28T15:38:02Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Hillary has no Charisma, at all. I saw her campaign for the Democratic primary. She told a story about when she was a little girl (on a farm, sitting under a tree… something). She used a wistful tone and cadence, recalling those halcyon days of childhood. She oozed insincerity. She sounded _exactly_ like the Corporate Management Types I’d been working for for 20 years, with their condescending attitudes toward the engineers, programmers, and other people who actually did the work. There’s no way I’d vote for Hillary Clinton – unless she’s the Democratic nominee. She may be old, smarmy, and condescending, but she’s better than anyone the Republic Party can offer. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/16 "2015-03-28T16:22:44Z")
2016 is starting to feel like the year that will be a prime target for a 3rd-party candidate. The dude with [TRITDH](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_McMillan) party certainly seems to have a lot of personality and charisma, but his ideology is just all messed up, I would never vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/17 "2015-03-28T16:51:16Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Hillary has no Charisma, at all. People are voted for her in the last primaries simply because she is simultaneously a democrat and a woman. Elizabeth Warren has charisma, character, resolve and principles. She’s 10 times the candidate Hillary is. I love Warren, but I think Hillary is more palatable to the masses in a general election (Warren being more to the left), so I would agree with everything in the above post except “10 times the candidate” if the measure is electability. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/18 "2015-03-28T16:57:40Z")
1.) Hillary is not a shoo in for next President like so many people believe. 2.) She’s not going to win unless she stops dodging the hard ball questions. 3.) I’m still voting for Clinton. (Unless by some miracle Warren decides to run.) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/19 "2015-03-28T19:14:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I saw her campaign for the Democratic primary. She told a story about when she was a little girl (on a farm, sitting under a tree… something). She used a wistful tone and cadence, recalling those halcyon days of childhood. > > She oozed insincerity. She sounded _exactly_ like the Corporate Management Types I’d been working for for 20 years, with their condescending attitudes toward the engineers, programmers, and other people who actually did the work. > > There’s no way I’d vote for Hillary Clinton – unless she’s the Democratic nominee. She may be old, smarmy, and condescending, but she’s better than anyone the Republic Party can offer. Hilary plays hardball and doesn’t do touchy-feely very well. But her attitude is “if you don’t like it, go fuck yourself”. That said, while she’s usually all business when on the stage, she’s very personable in smaller informal settings. I met her when she was still First Lady and found her to be amusing and disarming. But she’s not someone you’d want to cross. I don’t have a problem with this, as she’s having to compete with some of the biggest political and personal assholes on the planet, as would any woman in the presidential arena. They show her no mercy and she returns the favor. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/20 "2015-03-28T19:19:04Z")
If Warren doesn’t run for president in 2016, I question whether she ever will. By the time of the 2020 presidential election, she’ll be in her 70s. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184.md?page=2)