# I don't think Hillary can win. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184 "2015-03-28T03:51:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/41 "2015-03-29T08:15:03Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Hillary has no Charisma, at all. She’s a Construct? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/42 "2015-03-29T11:06:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > At the very least, it shows that Democrats’ contention that they were the ones who engaged in smart diplomacy was just arrogant posturing. Despite their supposedly more nuanced, intelligent policies, the Middle East has gotten even more screwed up. For the US, it’s much less screwed up, since we don’t have lots of Americans there getting killed. Further, most of the “more screwed up” parts are directly the fault of Bush/Cheney involvement. And I think it’s very likely that if the Middle East is ever going to improve, it will need to do so on its own, and it’s going to need to hit rock bottom first. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/43 "2015-03-29T12:11:09Z")
That would be a better argument if the Obama administration hadn’t had six years of “smart diplomacy” getting worse results. At some point you have to stop blaming your predecessor for your problems. I recall that in the case of Bush, he was allowed oh, about nine months before everything was his fault. By giving Obama six years you’re treating him like a child. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/44 "2015-03-29T12:27:23Z")
I’d vote for her. Accomplishments? Senator. Secretary of State. While FLOTUS is not an ‘accomplishment’, it sure does give one a close up view of how things are done. And bringing Bill, while also not an ‘accomplishment’ with her will help get things done, too. I like her general positions; they align with my own opinions much more closely than any Republican position. Is she perfect? Heck, no. Will I vote for her? Heck, yes. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/45 "2015-03-29T12:30:28Z")
What were her accomplishments as SecState and Senator? Those are resume items, not accomplishments, per se. The Senate seat was handed to her because of her name, plus she cherry picked an easy seat to win rather than competing back in Arkansas where she would have lost. SecState was the result of her losing an election. So I’d need to know, what were her accomplishments as Senator and SecState? I know as Senator she voted for the Iraq war. Barack Obama made sure everyone knew that too.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/46 "2015-03-29T12:51:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What were her accomplishments as SecState and Senator? She was a hard working Senator by all accounts and other than the Iraq war vote, was on the right side of most every issue. As Secretary of State, she didn’t steer us toward war for four years. I’m not giddy with anticipation at a Hillary presidency. I’d like to know what her agenda is and at this point I’m not prepared to crawl over broken glass, hot coals, and barbed wire in the nude to vote for her. But I am prepared to crawl over these things to vote against whatever whack-a-doodle the Republicans nominate. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/47 "2015-03-29T13:38:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That would be a better argument if the Obama administration hadn’t had six years of “smart diplomacy” getting worse results. At some point you have to stop blaming your predecessor for your problems. I recall that in the case of Bush, he was allowed oh, about nine months before everything was his fault. By giving Obama six years you’re treating him like a child. Wrong yet again. Nine months after Bush was elected, 9/11 happened. It took a few years of stupid, incompetent, and greedy bumbling to squander bi-partisan support after the attacks. Much the same way it took them a few years to squander the surplus. Children start wars without a plan to win the peace and get out. So we elected an adult to clean up the neo-con mess. ETA: Oh yeah, Hillary. She will be the next president. Resistance is futile. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/48 "2015-03-29T13:39:13Z")
Are you forgetting Libya? The only thing we really know about her is that she’s almost always the most hawkish Democrat in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/49 "2015-03-29T14:06:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What were her accomplishments as SecState and Senator? > > Those are resume items, not accomplishments, per se. The Senate seat was handed to her because of her name, plus she cherry picked an easy seat to win rather than competing back in Arkansas where she would have lost. SecState was the result of her losing an election. > > So I’d need to know, what were her accomplishments as Senator and SecState? I know as Senator she voted for the Iraq war. Barack Obama made sure everyone knew that too.🙂 As far as State goes, she doesn’t have a single huge accomplishment. However, quite a few surveys of foreign policy leaders place her as one of the better Secretaries in quite some time. The whole “the world got along much better with her than most of her contemporaries” thing is hard to quantify. It’s sort of like how we don’t keep statistics that would show that Anthony Munoz is one of the best offensive linemen in NFL history: you just have to pay attention to understand the accomplishments. Or, one could say that even Lindsey “Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi” Graham is very complimentary of her tenure as chief diplomat. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/50 "2015-03-29T15:47:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That would be a better argument if the Obama administration hadn’t had six years of “smart diplomacy” getting worse results. At some point you have to stop blaming your predecessor for your problems. I recall that in the case of Bush, he was allowed oh, about nine months before everything was his fault. By giving Obama six years you’re treating him like a child. The results aren’t “getting worse” – they’re much, much better (for the US). We are much safer now that we’re not losing a dozen US soldiers every month. Obama’s foreign policy has resulted in much better results for the most important country – us. We are much, much safer, and far, far fewer Americans are dying. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/51 "2015-03-29T17:21:59Z")
Some of us imagine what position we’d be in now if world events unfolded while McCain or Romney were in charge of foreign policy and are very happy with where we are indeed. Certainly we can agree that the world is in a very complex and dangerous place right now with many transitions occurring all at the same time many of which impact each other in sometimes chaotic and hard to predict fashions. G.W. Bush [in 2003](http://www.economist.com/node/2202949) stated that his bold goal was to disrupt the status quo in the Middle East, with the aim of having democracy spread. And while the experiments with democracy in Arab countries have not quite given the results he had apparently (if we believe what he said) hoped for, the region-wide disruptions that his administration’s actions helped set in motion, are out of the bottle and not completely under U.S. control. Yes, relations now are a spiderweb of connections and a balance between the the need for, if not stability at least some limitation of instability, and promoting our values at the cost of instability. There are few real American allies there now, just those whose interest in one way coincide and whose interests in other ways conflict. A few true enemies and the enemy of our enemy may not be our friend but they are, in that one area, at least the lesser of the evils. Hold your nose. Probably not the time to have a president who has to learn all this as on the job training. Or who views international affairs in very simplistic black and white terms. That said I doubt foreign policy will be the main focus of a general election. HRC would not want that as it is hard to reduce the complexities to 10 second sound bites and it does not play to any of the GOP contenders’ strengths. Be prepared for another debate over the AHC, social issues, immigration, and “the economy stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/52 "2015-03-29T18:29:52Z")
I’ve reluctantly come to realize Hillary is her own worst enemy. She keeps doing dumb shit like this email server thing. She knew Secretary of State was a stepping stone to her next Presidential run. All she had to do was follow the rules. Dot her I’s and cross those T’s. But no, she has to run out and setup a private email server. She’s always letting her paranoia trip her up. Giving evasive answers to easy questions. Creating suspicion where there’s no reason for any to exist. Just like Benghazi. She could have taken responsibility. Yeah we screwed up. Taken a few months of heat and been done with it. But No. She has to claim no knowledge and it wasn’t my fault. Opening up years of investigations and controversy. Controversy follows Hillary throughout her career. Often because she’s evasive or won’t just come clean and admit a mistake. I want to be a Hillary supporter. I’ve supported Bill in every state and Federal election. But Hillary keeps tripping over her own feet. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/53 "2015-03-29T18:36:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Just like Benghazi. She could have taken responsibility. Yeah we screwed up. Taken a few months of heat and been done with it. But No. She has to claim no knowledge and it wasn’t my fault. Opening up years of investigations and controversy. Controversy follows Hillary throughout her career. Often because she’s evasive or won’t just come clean and admit a mistake. > > I want to be a Hillary supporter. Oh, I so WANT to be a Hillary supporter, except, you know, BENGHAZI! _sob_ Why, Hillary, whyyyyy? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/54 "2015-03-29T19:02:36Z")
A lot of Clinton supporters are realizing that Hillary just doesn’t have Bill’s skill set. He was the comeback kid. The guy that controversy didn’t stick too. He got into trouble and just shook it off. Hillary is just the opposite. She attracts controversy and it follows her everywhere. I have no idea why. But I’ve followed and supported the Clintons since 1977. Hillary has always been a lightening rod. I used to think it was to deflect it from Bill. But even with him retired, she still trips over her own feet. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/55 "2015-03-29T19:07:29Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Hillary is just the opposite. She attracts controversy and it follows her everywhere. I have no idea why. Right after you got done talking about Benghazi. Gosh, I have no idea why you think controversy follows her everywhere _when you are one of the people carrying it_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/56 "2015-03-29T19:12:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Hillary is just the opposite. She attracts controversy and it follows her everywhere. I have no idea why. Seriously? I thought the reason is pretty obvious. The Clintons are Democrats and conservatives don’t want them in office. Hillary used to be a club they could hit Bill with. But since 2000, she’s being attacked in her own right. Which, as I said in the past, is one of Clinton’s hidden strengths. The right wing media has already used up all its good material on Hillary Clinton and she’s survived it. Twenty years ago, they were accusing her of being a drug lord and a serial killer. Now the best they can come up with is she’s misused her email account. If anyone other than Clinton runs in 2016, the right wing press will be able to throw fresh mud at them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/57 "2015-03-29T19:32:34Z")
Based on what even the Republican led investigations told us there was nothing there to justify the idea that the accusations of malfeasance made against the Obama administration and the then secretary Clinton had any merit, What Hillary knew about the previous secretaries is that they also kept their own e-mail. While I do think that a case could be made about her not following the spirit of the law I have to say that like Whitewater the e-mail scandal looks just like a manufactured scandal or one that looking at the big picture looks like it was blown out of proportion. What many that are tossing these items at Clinton do ignore is that there is a pattern already seen in the mainstream press, they also look at the polls and IMHO they have to undermine the lead candidate because otherwise there would not be a horse race with more money to be made by the mainstream media in political advertisements if the contest is not a close one. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/58 "2015-03-29T19:59:31Z")
HRC is if anything now a bit immunized against scandal. There have been so many cry wolves that the key 10% swing voters are likely to pretty much ignore most future scandals du jour, even if one actually _had_ some decent merit. Oh the talking heads will blather about whatever new it there is, as noted above, they need to have something to try to make a race seem interesting (issues? boring.) and taking down the leader a peg is always good for ratings. That 10% swing might not read or watch but each of the other 40%s cares some. True though … Bill’s Teflon coating was unique. The man’s ability to connect with people, to make people _think_ that he’s just pointing out to them _what they already know_ rather than lecturing to them, is a special gift. HRC doesn’t have that, but then no one else other than Bill does either. Obama is a fine communicator but no where in same ball park either. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/59 "2015-03-29T20:28:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Just like Benghazi. She could have taken responsibility. Yeah we screwed up. Taken a few months of heat and been done with it. But No. She has to claim no knowledge and it wasn’t my fault. Opening up years of investigations and controversy. Controversy follows Hillary throughout her career. Often because she’s evasive or won’t just come clean and admit a mistake. I guess I missed this in the news… what did she do to screw up Benghazi? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/60 "2015-03-29T20:30:40Z")
> [@nate](#): > > I guess I missed this in the news… what did she do to screw up Benghazi? The worst sin of all—she wasn’t a Republican. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184.md?page=4)