# I don't think I can say this in the Elections forum **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 10, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297 "2016-11-10T00:33:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/161 "2016-11-11T01:19:30Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Let me preface this by saying… > > Hahahahahaha to all the smug liberals now crying the tastiest of tears. The sheer despair of watching the liberal sheep in Hollywood, the media, on social media, on this board and in real life makes voting for Donald the mother fucking man Trump so goddamn fucking with it! Cry more, please! Show me your anguish, your pain and your fears. > > IT’S S GREAT DAY FOR AMERICA! > > _ahem_ > > Now with that out of the way, holy hell people. I was upset when Romney lost, but some of these people are taking the cake. Not everyone who voted the way you didn’t wish is guilty of \. No, Black folk aren’t going to be shot wholesale. No, all Hispanics aren’t getting deported. No, we’re not gonna round Muslims up and put them in concentration camps. No, it wasn’t a “Whitelash” against a HALF Black president. No, Trump isn’t going to start WW3, etc… Get a hold of yourselves! We survived Obama; you’ll survive Trump. Let’s revisit this in a year or two. If the Trump presidency turns out to be a grand success, I will admit you have a point and I was wrong. If it turns out to be the flaming shitshow that all evidence suggests it might be, you can explain where it all went wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/162 "2016-11-11T01:24:52Z")
Or, if as is quite likely, there will be strong differences of opinion as to how successful or unsuccessful the Trump presidency turned out to be, no one will “explain” anything to anyone ,and instead will keep on having partisan disputes like this one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/163 "2016-11-11T01:28:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Or, if as is quite likely, there will be strong differences of opinion as to how successful or unsuccessful the Trump presidency turned out to be, no one will “explain” anything to anyone ,and instead will keep on having partisan disputes like this one. 🙂 Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/164 "2016-11-11T01:35:50Z")
Well, start a “Stupid Trump Idea of the day” thread and a “Smart Trump Idea of the day” thread, see which hits 5000 posts first. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/165 "2016-11-11T01:44:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, start a “Stupid Trump Idea of the day” thread and a “Smart Trump Idea of the day” thread, see which hits 5000 posts first. And that would prove what? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/166 "2016-11-11T01:51:35Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > And that would prove what? To you, I expect nothing. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/167 "2016-11-11T01:58:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Or, if as is quite likely, there will be strong differences of opinion as to how successful or unsuccessful the Trump presidency turned out to be, no one will “explain” anything to anyone ,and instead will keep on having partisan disputes like this one. 🙂 I’m predicting the results will be apparent to all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/168 "2016-11-11T02:07:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > To run back to Republicans, though… it resembles an addict falling back to self-destructive behaviour. I think that’s exactly what it is. It’s no accident that Trump’s slogan was “Mae America great again”. The Iraq invasion and the GFC were both signals that America’s time as top dog was coming to a close… and Americans on both sides are freaking out. We’ve already seen denial, then anger (first via Republican anger at the Democrats, now vice versa), bargaining (“If only it weren’t Hillary!” and “Maybe we can convince the electoral college to vote against Trump!”) and depression. What got Trump elected was pure existential terror due to the cognitive dissonance between the belief that the U.S. was destined for perpetual greatness. Clinton was offering sensible, moderate solutions, but those don’t cut through when people are in a state of panic. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/169 "2016-11-11T02:15:35Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > What got Trump elected was pure existential terror due to the cognitive dissonance between the belief that the U.S. was destined for perpetual greatness. …and the reality that the golden age of the U.S. is over. (Forgot to finish my thought.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/170 "2016-11-11T02:16:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, start a “Stupid Trump Idea of the day” thread and a “Smart Trump Idea of the day” thread, see which hits 5000 posts first. [Done](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19771680#post19771680) and [done](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19771687#post19771687)! ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/171 "2016-11-11T02:19:08Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > That’s pretty much it. He’s been exposed in the past as a lying troll. Now y’all are just flat out lying. I’ve never taken a picture and posted it here, much less with one on my hands. But I do like proving people wrong so… [Clicky Clicky](https://s18.postimg.org/a2lfq59ll/20161110_210728_Richtone_HDR.jpg) I accept your apology. > [@](#): > > There are plenty of Black conservatives. This causes no cognitive dissonance. Black Americans tend to vote Democratic not because they are, as a group, overwhelmingly liberal, but because republicans are the party of white racists. Impossible to deny after this election, unless you’re a lying troll like OMG or you’re dumb as a doorknob. This again. Blacks as a whole, have been voting overwhelmingly Democratic for decades. The last Republican to win the majority of the “Black vote” was Herbert Hoover. Against FDR. In 1932. It has nothing to do with racism; Blacks as a whole, are one of the most-- if not the most-- monolithic demographic voting bloc in the US and have been for damn near 84 years (longer then most have been alive). It’s nothing more than generational at this point, which is confounded by the fact that there’s a very strong pressure to conform within the Black community, which simply breeds more Democratic voters. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/172 "2016-11-11T02:24:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Done](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19771680#post19771680) and [done](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19771687#post19771687)! Well, I was also going to suggest waiting until he took office, but okay. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/173 "2016-11-11T02:31:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t think I am, I’m simply getting to the heart of it. …no you aren’t getting to the heart of the matter. You are completely ignoring the actual matter and are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. > [@](#): > > Okay… and what about this challenges the notion that Trump supporters are not in touch with reality? If anything, you seem to be presenting evidence _in support_ of the idea that these voters were living in fantasy, and the information that could have clarified the issue for them was not hidden from them or denied to them. They just didn’t care enough to look for it. Well, yeah, someone is living in a “fantasy world.” In the real world many people get up at five o’clock because they need to be ready at six o’clock to leave for work because its going to be a two hour commute to get to work. In the real world both couples are working, doing overtime, also have to come home to cook dinner, working six days a week, putting the kids to bed. Life is a relentless, ongoing struggle, and when they do get spare time they aren’t going to spend it looking up digging up citations that defend a person they don’t like very much. On the other hand: you have been here since 2000, are a prolific poster with thousands and thousands of posts who has plenty of available time to be able to commit to posting your opinions on a messageboard. A messageboard with the specific intent to fight ignorance. Of course you are going to be fucking better informed than these other voters. They aren’t living in a fantasy land. They aren’t out of touch with reality. They are simply living a different reality: one that you are completely out of touch with. > [@](#): > > I’ll happily share my sympathy and empathy with people who are trying to improve their lot through methods with a reasonable chance of success. I’ll even entertain the notion that Trump might not be as bad as feared and actually help them (though I’m not sure how he can or _if_ he can). But if they choose to remain low-information voters, well… things might work out for them or they may not, but if they keep voting Republican, they’re deliberately biasing the game against themselves, and I suspect part of that is _also_ due to the fantasy that if they vote for the party that clearly favours the rich, then one day they might be rich, too. > > If things get worse in the next two years and control of Congress is not returned to Democrats, then what limited sympathy I now have will simply shrink to zero. Who is asking for sympathy? They don’t want your feeling pity and sorrow because of their misfortune. And that is besides the point. You can choose to try and empathise with them or not. You can choose to pour scorn on them or not. You can feel pity, or you can hate them. It doesn’t actually matter. Because these people exist. And they aren’t demons and they aren’t ogres and they aren’t the enemy. And worrying about how these people are going to vote at the next election is only playing into Trumps hands. Because he is literally playing by Rove’s playbook. Go read Rove’s words again. At this very minute Trump is assembling a team of literally the worlds worst people to take control of the most powerful country in the history of the world. And he is literally re-writing the rulebook as he does it. They are going to steam-roll over all the fabled checks and balances unless people act now to combat it. Those people out on the streets protesting right now? They have figured it out. That 93% of black women who held their noses and voted Clinton? They had figured it out. Yes: Trump is going to be president of the United States. Its happened. Get over it. If we don’t all start doing something now it will be all over before we even know what is happening. It will be blitzkrieg. Shock and awe. There isn’t a lot I can do over this side of the world. I’m going to do what JK Rowling has suggested: > [@](#): > > We stand together. We stick up for the vulnerable. We challenge bigots. We don’t let hate speech become normalised. We hold the line. > > > Mallory @malmal1012 So thats what I’m doing. Focus on the bigots. Stick up for the vulnerable and the hurt. No matter who they are. I’m not going after the guy or the girl who is just doing their job who made a voting decision that wasn’t the best. These people are not the problem. We need to hold the line. But we can’t just hold the line. We need to find the right people to take the attack to Trump not in two years time but now. We need to get our head in the game. We need to start re-writing the rules and we need to take control of the narrative. Eight years of Obama have made me complacent. With things like goobergate dying down I actually thought the Alt-Right had been put in its place. But the Alt-Right now have control of the nuclear codes. They control congress and the senate. And they’ve got a fucking road map of what they are going to do. They have spent decades planning for this. Its going to happen quick. Get your head in the game or get out. We all can’t afford to be pointing the finger and examining what went wrong and planning for the next election because by then the Trump Empire will have just shifted gears and will be rolling over everyone again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/174 "2016-11-11T02:32:18Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > That’s not quite as worrying as this; > There’s too much that 60 Senators can do _with_ Trump and they know it. > > CMC fnord! So where do they pick up 8 more Republican senators? I can’t think of when they ever had a filibuster proof senate and the senate seems to be trending democratic over time. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/175 "2016-11-11T02:39:05Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The first one may not be a good example, because that statement is so straight out divorced from reality that it’s kind of laughable. …not a good example of what though? This is what people are saying. You may hold the opinion that what they are saying is divorced from reality that its laughable. But so the fuck what? > [@](#): > > The second is just a nicer way of saying, I can’t afford to care if you die, I need to keep what I have. I understand it, but surely you can see it’s not very compelling for the people being left to die. “I don’t want people to die. No sir, I do not want that. But Trump said he is going to be president for the people. And he said he was going to fix healthcare. I will leave it to him to make sure that people won’t be left to die. But I’m going to end up in the streets: and Clinton won’t do anything to change that. Trump might not be much better, but he said he was going to get rid of the ACA, and that is good enough for me.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/176 "2016-11-11T02:40:14Z")
Another excellent post, **BB**. ETA: #173. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/177 "2016-11-11T02:45:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Another excellent post, **BB**. > > ETA: #173. …cheers bud. Yours too. And now I’m really going to take off to San Junipero. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/178 "2016-11-11T02:57:23Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …no you aren’t getting to the heart of the matter. You are completely ignoring the actual matter and are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. No, I’m being told repeatedly that it’s wrong to think of Trump voters as living in fantasy by people who then go on to describe the fantasies the Trump voters are living in. Do they have an accurate view of Hillary Clinton or not? Do they have an accurate view of Republican policies or not? If they don’t _and they don’t care to learn why_ then, yes, they are living in fantasy, practically by definition. > [@](#): > > In the real world many people get up at five o’clock because they need to be ready at six o’clock to leave for work because its going to be a two hour commute to get to work. In the real world both couples are working, doing overtime, also have to come home to cook dinner, working six days a week, putting the kids to bed. Life is a relentless, ongoing struggle, and when they do get spare time they aren’t going to spend it looking up digging up citations that defend a person they don’t like very much. And yet they voted while in possession of limited and incorrect information. Huh. They chose simple-to-digest TV soundbytes over, say, reading articles in _Time_ or _Newsweek_. Did they watch a lot of Fox News, do you think? Is the commentary on Fox News well grounded in reality, do you think? Why _don’t_ they like a particular person they’ve never met and, by your description, have little information about? > [@](#): > > They aren’t living in a fantasy land. They aren’t out of touch with reality. They are simply living a different reality: one that you are completely out of touch with. That may be true in the sense that I don’t live in a place where my elected officials, especially those of a particular party, are quite determined to fuck me over while telling me that government is bad and the rich need lower taxes and less regulation even as I lose my health insurance and banks fail around me. > [@](#): > > I’m not going after the guy or the girl who is just doing their job who made a voting decision that wasn’t the best. These people are not the problem. I’m not going after them, either, but I’m not going to let politeness stop me from pointing out where and how they fucked themselves up. And, yes… they _are_ the problem, or at least the enablers of it, if they view an election as a lengthy and limited popularity contest between two celebrities, pick they one they like better, and then blindly vote for every candidate who shares the favourite’s party. I’ll be glad to answer any sincere questions about, for example, my experiences with single-payer health insurance (or how I cast my votes, or any number of issues). If someone says Canada has socialized medicine and socialized medicine is bad because Fox News says so and that’s why Obamacare had to go, that person can go fuck himself with his own determined ignorance in, yes, the fantasy world where he has chosen to stay. Tragically, he’s not even living his _own_ fantasy, but rather one carefully crafted for him to keep him in line. Whether or not I ever manage to convince a Trump voter of anything, this line of argument has utterly failed to convince _me_ of anything. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/179 "2016-11-11T04:11:50Z")
This ought to make the OP proud: [**The Ku Klux Klan says it will hold a Trump victory parade**](http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-updates-trail-guide-kkk-trump-north-carolina-1478822255-htmlstory.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297/180 "2016-11-11T04:36:12Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > This ought to make the OP proud: [**The Ku Klux Klan says it will hold a Trump victory parade**](http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-updates-trail-guide-kkk-trump-north-carolina-1478822255-htmlstory.html) I gather as long as it upsets liberals (or at least can be _said_ to upset liberals), the OP is cool with it. I personally find it somewhat amusing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-i-can-say-this-in-the-elections-forum/771297.md?page=10)