# I don't think it's fair that Sultan Kinkari was banned **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2001, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088 "2001-10-08T10:33:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/21 "2001-10-08T12:34:45Z")
I am in full accord with the OP. **Sultan Kinkari** ’s comments may have been abrasive, but they were well within the bounds of what I’ve seen hundreds of times, even in the Pit. Unless something was going on other than his posts themselves, I see no good reason why he should have been banned. But incidentally…where did that guy come from? I can’t find any posts of his earlier than about 9/16, but his count was over 1382! Was he really posting a hundred times a day? ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/22 "2001-10-08T12:58:07Z")
Did you happen to miss my opening statement **TLD**? > [@](#): > > I’m certainly not going to defend Manny’s “grandmother’s pussy” comments in the thread concerned, because I believe that any one of us would have received an official warning for such comments and deservedly so. The Pit isn’t, and never has been, a “flame-proof” zone. I personally find most of the pissing contest posts in the thread concerned pretty childish and pointless - no matter how many dead bodies anyone has or hasn’t touched in funeral parlours throughout their lifetime we are simply not talking about anything comparable; nor should the ability or willingness to touch a corpse be the measure of a person. I don’t believe, however, that **Sultan** was banned merely because he expressed an unpopular viewpoint. Many of us have done that over the last few weeks, myself included. I suspect his refusal to acknowledge the many warnings he was given by members about skating on thin ice, coupled with his ATMB thread, sealed his fate. Having said that though **TLD** , I suspect that there are people who feel pretty cowered right now by the intensity of US emotion and seriously think that their membership of this board is in jeopardy if they post the “wrong” thing. The only way any of us can fight that erroneous belief is by continuing to post what we really believe and defending what we have posted. The Pit has never been a “flame-proof” zone. There are some things which are simply unacceptable within this community no matter which forum they are posted in ,and I suspect that comments about dead grandmothers is about to join the list. ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/23 "2001-10-08T13:05:34Z")
It’s not just that it made him uncomfortable… its that he thought his discomfot outweighed the comfort of the many rescue workers. And the fact that he called them morons. And that h said ‘fuck them,’ at one point. And the fact that he refused to admit that having to sort through dead bodies was a big deal and that they might be owed some kind of leniency because of it. And the fact that he brought up the kind of occasional deaths all human beings see happen to their friends and families as comparable to sorting through rubble looking for 5000 bodies. He was a jerk, thoroughly and consistently. –John ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/24 "2001-10-08T13:06:41Z")
**Reprise** , me ol’ mate, my post wasn’t a reply to yours, which was why I didn’t address yours directly. I just happened to stumble in here immediately after you did, and I aligned myself, more or less, with the opposing team in a more general sense. To be fair, I am not familiar with any transgressions **Sultan** made in the last few days or weeks, but even if he did screw up, and I have no reason to disbelieve you that he did, I still can’t find _anything_ in his Pit thread worthy of advancing the banning process by so much as an inch. Now, **Manhattan** on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Rosebud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rosebud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rosebud)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/25 "2001-10-08T13:55:42Z")
**Fiver** , I noticed the same thing-- I’d wondered if **Sultan** was recent name-changer but I can’t figure out who he might have been. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/26 "2001-10-08T14:12:43Z")
Even if he had changed his name, **Rosebud** , a search would have turned up his posts under the previous name. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/27 "2001-10-08T14:37:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Fiver_ > **But incidentally…where did that guy come from? I can’t find any posts of his earlier than about 9/16, but his count was over 1382! Was he really posting a hundred times a day?** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rosebud \* > \*\ ***Fiver** , I noticed the same thing-- I’d wondered if **Sultan** was recent name-changer but I can’t figure out who he might have been. \*\* I don’t think so: he registered in June, 2001. So he was here 4 months give-or-take, and had roughly 1500 posts which means he averaged something like 12.5 posts a day, assuming he posted every day. And I don’t recognize the name either. Hmmmmm. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/28 "2001-10-08T14:42:02Z")
I want to share with everyone an encounter I had with **Sultan** a few days ago. Here is the thread, in which I asked a question about plasterboard in my house: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90892](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90892) Not only did **Sultan** take the time to post a thoughtful (and helpful) reply, but when I explained why my problem was a little tricky, offered to try to think up a creative solution. Of course I have not reviewed **Sultan** ’s posting history, but it seems a shame to lose him. With respect to the thread in question, I have to agree with the other posters who say that **Sultan** does not appear to be delibertely instigating trouble. Instead, it seems that he was reacting to a “pile-on.” I hope the admins change their minds, especially since I have some more house issues to ask about 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/29 "2001-10-08T14:47:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _TheLoadedDog_ > To be fair, I am not familiar with any transgressions Sultan made in the last few days or weeks, but even if he did screw up, and I have no reason to disbelieve you that he did, I still can’t find anything in his Pit thread worthy of advancing the banning process by so much as an inch. To me it looks simple:[ul][li] **Sultan** starts [ATMB thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=91382) asking whether anything is beyound the pale in the Pit. And is told yes by various people including **Lynn**.[_]Sultan’s posts in the [MPSIMS thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=91342) beg to be taken to the Pit.[_]Sultan winds it up notch by notch in the Pit thread.[/ul]This really, really looks like a deliberate attempt to push things into more and more extreme territory _not in defence of his opinions but for the sake of getting a reaction._ I doubt the mods think that the three things are unrelated. That’s trolling, pure and simple. Nothing to do with his opinions or whether he said nasty words, everything to do with stirring things up for his own amusment (or deliberate attempt to get banned).[/li] And **manhattan** ’s post was kicking a corpse. As much as anything I thought it was a signal that Sultan was toast. It was _very_ harsh - although I thought it was pretty funny - but a lot goes in the Pit. I don’t know who Sultan was previously either. Nice people who change their names put in their sig for a while. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/30 "2001-10-08T15:06:57Z")
Well, I did a quick search, and it seems he’s been in active in 90 threads, roughly 1/2 of those in GQ, and the other half divided between MPSIMS, IMHO, and the Pit. Of course, that averages to approximately 16 posts per thread… ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/31 "2001-10-08T15:20:10Z")
I have to agree with you, **Badtz Maru** , and not just because we’re sleeping together[sup]\*[/sup]. Here’s the way that I figure it: **Sultan Kinkari** has every right to speak his mind regarding whether or not a cross is offensive. Whether it offends anyone else, or anyone else is offended by his comments are immaterial. He has just as much a right to speak his mind as anyone else. What about all the Jews and everyone else either killed or working at Ground Zero? This is bullshit, pure and simple. I’m sure he would have been met with the same results if he started a thread called “Ask the Klansman.”[sup]\*\*[/sup] It’s his right to say how he feels about certain issues. If anyone else has a problem with it, don’t read the friggin’ thing. While I will confess that I have never read anything other than the posts referenced here, nor have I had a conversation with him, I think that the punishment far exceeded the crime. One of the mods can get away with an accusation of necrophelia aimed soley at ONE specific member, and everyone applauds him for it? No offense intended to anyone, but if someone said that to my face, I’d break their fucking nose. Our beloved moderators appear to be above the law. Anything that they say is met with asskissing and cocksucking. **Sultan Kinkari** is human. Just because someone disagrees with what is, to him, a natural reaction is no reason for him to be banned. [sup]\*Badtz Maru and I are NOT sleeping together. I’ve never met Badtz/ \*\*Not to imply that Sultan Kinkari _IS_ a Klansman in any way, shape, or form. It was just the first thing to come to my mind.[/up] ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/32 "2001-10-08T15:29:53Z")
I was _very_ surprised that he was banned. Although I disagreed with 100% of his views in that cross thread, and thought he was an irritating juvenile, I’m still puzzled about this. ---
**Author:** ![k.os](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@k.os](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k.os)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/33 "2001-10-08T15:51:03Z")
I agree that **Manhattan** ’s comment was one of the sickest thing I have read on these boards. I also think it is deeply disturbing that in the referenced thread, no one called him on it. People laughed. Tha’ts just sick. from [dictionnary.com](http://dictionnary.com): **Moderator:** 1.One that moderates, as: a.One that arbitrates or mediates. b.One who presides over a meeting, forum, or debate. 2.The officer who presides over a synod or general assembly of the Presbyterian Church. 3.Physics. A substance, such as water or graphite, that is used in a nuclear reactor to decrease the speed of fast neutrons and increase the likelihood of fission. I don’t see anything in the definition of moderator that could have excused Manny’s post. And if he wasn’t posting as a moderator, how could he get away with saying something like that? Are we allowed to call people necrophiliacs? I certainly hope not. This feels wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/34 "2001-10-08T15:55:49Z")
I don’t really have a problem with **Sultan** ’s banning. I don’t think he really contributed much more than bile round these parts, BUT … > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Sultan wasn’t just venting or ranting or even being a jerk. He was pulling chains. He was being _deliberately offensive for the purpose of upsetting people_. I think this portion from his “words of wisdom” tells the whole tale: > > > [@](#): > > > > …I don’t give a fuck if a cross makes them feel comfortable. It makes me uncomfortable… > > \*\* How exactly (except in its converseness) is that different than – “I don’t give a fuck if a cross makes them feel _ **uncomfortable** _. It makes me _ **comfortable** _.” Two way streets – is all I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/35 "2001-10-08T15:56:15Z")
The Sultan was a jerk in many different threads. The Mods did the right thing; and manhattan did a wonderful job of kicking the corpse on its way out the door. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/36 "2001-10-08T16:08:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I hope you read the OP criticising Sultan’s stance very carefully. You’re very right. I am amazed at how many posters who have always seemed able to comprehend the written word have has such a Goddamned time understanding what has offended and pissed off others. I’ll try to make it very simple in the hopes that it is FINALLY understood. (1) NO ONE is offended by his lack of belief that the cross is a divine gift from God. I don’t think it is a divine gift from God and I haven’t seen anyone here claim it is. (2) NO ONE has argued that anyone who is not Christian should not be offended. I am not Christian, the cross does not bother me at all, but I have not once even suggested that no one else has the right to feel offended by the Christian display. I don’t think I have seen any other poster make the claim either. (3) What IS very offensive has NOTHING to do with either 1 or 2, but everything to do with Sultan’s disgusting attacks against those people who have found some small sense of peace in the symbol. His nasty words went well beyond his personal feeling that the cross was nothing more than metal (which I agree). He called these people idiots and hypocrites and claimed that they did it to see their name on the nightly news because they found something to grasp onto for support in a period of time that none of us here can begin to fathom. He attacked these people viciously for no other reason than the fact that they have different beliefs than him. (4) I was very sincere in calling him a pathetic coward and a pussy. He was so quick to drag these rescue workers over the coals but then freely admits that he had a hard time dealing with the death of his cat and then later he mentioned his friend as if this somehow compares with digging 6000 rotten pieces of bodies from rubble. Death is harder for some people to handle and isn’t something to be ashamed of, but for someone to sit back and make such disgusting comments about those people who ARE doing things that he could never, ever do himself is the truest definition of a pathetic coward that I have ever seen. (5) I also would suggest that anyone who doesn’t have thick enough skin to handle an over-the-top insult such as the one Manny made in regards to his grandmother, should maybe sit back and look at his own bullets he is tossing. It reminds me a lot of me and my sister when we were kids. She would pester me, pinch, hit, pull my hair, and then cry to momma when I would turn around and flatten her. Don’t fuck with someone unless you are more than willing and more than able to accept the consequences. Fairly simple concept. (6) One last thing that refers to the grandma comment. \*\*A few posts prior to that I had mentioned watching beloved family and friends die from cancer. I mentioned cleaning up the remains of my cousin from the carpet. I mentioned the tragic death of my 7 year old brother whose head was caved in from the front corner of an automobile. These deaths were, and still are very horrific to our family and we still deal with them on a daily basis. This ASSHOLE made the comment to me “everything you touch dies”. \*\* Was that over the top? Was it glossed over and missed because I have a stronger backbone and chose to let it slide instead of throwing a hissy fit like this little freak did? Do I feel bad that his widdle feelings got hurt with the grandma comment? HELL FUCKING NO! I hope the little prick cried a river. Next time maybe he will think twice about tossing out very personal and hurtful insults if he is unable to take the backlash. He is a fucking scumbag of the worst kind and I hope that the door not only hit him in the ass hard but left a few slivers. Also, since when to the mods or admins have to give any reason for any action they take? It is a private message board and unless you are part owner or are paying to use their site, they owe you squat. There are many other message boards out there and as far as I know, this one isn’t holding anyone hostage. As many times as this comment has been pulled out, I suggest the mods use it for a sig. Oh, and will someone toss TLD a barf bucket, he looks a little “sickened”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/37 "2001-10-08T16:09:17Z")
I don’t have a problem with Sultan’s banning either, but as far as I’m concerned, it could have gone either way. He was obnoxious, but so are many others on occasion. Who does and does not get banned is a judgment call of the mods. I did want to highlight Yue Han’s post, which gives some more specific reasons why this guy may have earned a banning" > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yue Han \* > It’s not just that it made him uncomfortable… its that he thought his discomfot outweighed the comfort of the many rescue workers. And the fact that he called them morons. And that he said ‘fuck them,’ at one point. You know, maybe it’s just not a good time to say “fuck them” about the resue workers down at Ground Zero. And to call them “morons”. I think that very may have tipped the scales towards banning. I think saying “fuck them” is the epitome of being a “jerk”. How could he _not_ know that this would inflame us? He must have known. He’d have to be in a coma not to know how we’d all take that. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/38 "2001-10-08T16:13:43Z")
**Badtz,** I had somewhat the same surprise to see that **Sultan** was banned as a result of the Pit thread in question. A person surely has the right to disagree with a religious symbol, and as disgusted as I might feel about it, the right to say that the WTC workers are not heroic. However, I had not read the ATMB thread until it came up in this thread, so now I am leaning towards the troll assessment of the situation. But, I think **Manhattan’s** comment was absolutley right on. If someone drags their dead grandmother into things in order to demonstrate that the WTC workers are a bunch of whiners and media hounds, I expect them to be smacked down for it. The only person who was actually disrespectful to his grandmother was **Sultan** himself, by trying to use her as a defense after he backed himself into a corner. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/39 "2001-10-08T16:16:50Z")
Please. Are you telling me that this response to **Diane** : > [@](#): > > Whatever, lady. Just because _everything you touch dies_ doesn’t dismiss the fact that I have had a close friend die an unexpected death. Doesn’t fall under the “Being a jerk” rule? By the end of the thread, Sultan was lashing out at _everyone_, whether they were trying to honestly debate with him or not. Take his response to **PRNYouth** , who was honest to God trying to reason with the guy: > [@](#): > > Thank you for taking it easy on my frail soul. I don’t think I could handle any more after hearing that ridiculous story about them erecting that silly cross at Ground Zero. Sultan was being a jerk. Sultan got banned. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088/40 "2001-10-08T16:16:50Z")
> [@](#): > > but I have not once even suggested that no one else has the right to feel offended by the Christian display Make that - I have not once even suggested that others shouldn’t feel offended by the Christian display. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-its-fair-that-sultan-kinkari-was-banned/86088.md?page=3)