# I don't think you understand how much I hate the Grand Old Party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648 "2011-04-16T20:37:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648/41 "2011-04-17T20:58:50Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Obviously there has been no change whatsoever from then to now, none I tell you! [/sarcasm] Has there been? Really? Cool, I anxiously await Obama’s sweeping environmental proposals and their passage with overwhelming Democratic support. > [@](#): > > In the Democratic side we need to bust some heads, but on your side… Which side am I on, precisely? You’re bound to be wrong, but people guessing wrong about me is nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648/42 "2011-04-17T21:09:07Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Has there been? Really? Cool, I anxiously await Obama’s sweeping environmental proposals and their passage with overwhelming Democratic support. Dead on arrival with this current House. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Which side am I on, precisely? You’re bound to be wrong, but people guessing wrong about me is nothing new. In this case is the side that assumes an almost 100% Republican vote on something means that we can continue to acuse the other side of the same. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648/43 "2011-04-17T21:32:35Z")
Cap-and-trade was proposed by the President and did have overwhelming Democratic support. It passed the House. But it needed a couple of GOP votes to pass in the Senate, which went up in smoke when Lindsey Graham repudiated his support before the mid-terms. This seems to be a recurring political fallacy, that goes something like this: So long as the GOP blocks the Democrats from passing beneficial legislation on a topic, the two sides are equal on the issue. It is a comforting fallacy for certain moderates, who would rather not believe the GOP is genuinely worse on issues like gay rights, torture, and climate change. It’s easier to say a pox on both houses than to sort out who is actually responsible for the failure. ETA: And, of course, the new GOP house famously held hearings to try and cast doubt on the existence of climate change, lest you think opposition to cap-and-trade was opposition to that particular policy mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648/44 "2011-04-17T21:39:14Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Cap-and-trade was proposed by the President and did have overwhelming Democratic support. It passed the House. But it needed a couple of GOP votes to pass in the Senate, which went up in smoke when Lindsey Graham repudiated his support before the mid-terms. What is worse is Cap and Trade was a Republican idea. It is basically a free market solution to pollution. Both McCain and Palin supported it in the 2008 campaign. As soon as Obama said he would go for it, they hated it. This has happened over and over. Democrats cave and support Republican ideas which Republicans then disavow and fight against. They don’t care about governing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648/45 "2011-04-17T21:47:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Dead on arrival with this current House. It would be dead on arrival in any House. > [@](#): > > In this case is the side that assumes an almost 100% Republican vote on something means that we can continue to acuse the other side of the same. It is not a _tu quoque_ to state that the Democrats bear just as much culpability in the matter as Republicans do. They have never so much as tried to bring it up for a token vote on the record. History has demonstrated that broad, expensive environmental proposals cannot pass through Congress no matter what the composition is, and there is no reason to assume otherwise at this point in time. The small number of Democrats that might be inclined to favor such legislation can vote for it knowing that won’t pass, cynically currying favor with the environmentalists while accomplishing absolutely bupkis. It’s a tried and true way of doing business in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648/46 "2011-04-17T21:53:19Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > It would be dead on arrival in any House. > > It is not a _tu quoque_ to state that the Democrats bear just as much culpability in the matter as Republicans do. They have never so much as tried to bring it up for a token vote on the record. > > History has demonstrated that broad, expensive environmental proposals cannot pass through Congress no matter what the composition is, and there is no reason to assume otherwise at this point in time. The small number of Democrats that might be inclined to favor such legislation can vote for it knowing that won’t pass, cynically currying favor with the environmentalists while accomplishing absolutely bupkis. It’s a tried and true way of doing business in Washington. History shows that controling tobacco companies, removing lead from gasoline, controlling CFCs and acid rain demonstrated that it can. What is happening now is that the merchants of doubt (that also “coincidentally” are the same that delayed control by the government by seeding doubts in all the indutries mentioned) are controlling the Republicans and some Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648/47 "2011-04-17T22:07:29Z")
The way I see it, the reason why there is so much innaction is that Republicans and some democrats are swallowing propaganda that leads to political innaction. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wX3y6BQd4LI/maxresdefault.jpg "Naomi Oreskes on the Merchants of Doubt (10:15)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX3y6BQd4LI) > [@](#): > > On October 28, 2010 historian of science Naomi Oreskes gave a presentation at Forum Lectures (US Embassy Brussels), based on her new book, Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, about how right wing scientists founded the George Marshall Institute which has become a key hub for successfully spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt about climate change, along with other environmental issues, and how myths about science enable these political strategies to work. If the rates of gullibility were the same we should see more democrats falling for the FUD, as it is, one has to conclude the Republicans of today are something.. just not something that I would defend today. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648/48 "2011-04-17T23:46:39Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > It would be dead on arrival in any House. > > It is not a _tu quoque_ to state that the Democrats bear just as much culpability in the matter as Republicans do. They have never so much as tried to bring it up for a token vote on the record. This is not true. Many Democrats support cap and trade, or some other action to combat climate change. No Republicans do, at least not since 2010. [QUOTE=Quimby] What is worse is Cap and Trade was a Republican idea. It is basically a free market solution to pollution. Both McCain and Palin supported it in the 2008 campaign. As soon as Obama said he would go for it, they hated it. This has happened over and over. Democrats cave and support Republican ideas which Republicans then disavow and fight against. They don’t care about governing at all. [/QUOTE] Not only that, it’s a Republican proposal that has worked. Acid rain has been all but eliminated, and the economy hasn’t come crashing around our heads as a result. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-you-understand-how-much-i-hate-the-grand-old-party/578648.md?page=2)