# I don't understand Hitler **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468 "2011-04-06T23:34:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/101 "2011-04-14T15:04:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t know if there’s a precise line where following an irrational belief crosses over into insanity. But in Hitler’s case, he had several million people killed in accordance with his irrational beliefs about a non-existent conspiracy. So I think that wherever the line is between eccentricity and insanity, he was far past it. > [@Boyo Jim](#): > > Maybe. I don’t think this question can be answered in absolute terms. > > And I’m not sure it matters. What IMO crosses the line is how a person acts on those beliefs. If you order the deaths of millions and launch a word war based on them, then it’s fair to say the crazy line has been crossed. That doesn’t explain why the Holocaust happened. I clumsily alluded to that with my “humping the drapes” joke. If Hitler said that it was National Policy to, on Saturday morning’s only, get naked, coat yourself in Pig fat (to ward off the Jews), then roll around in a pile of feathers and flour, then jog around your dwelling counter clockwise three times, no one would have done this. It would have been clearly the ideas of a loon. So to say that millions of Jews were killed in the camps because Hitler was insane does not explain why thousands(num?) of co-conspirators went along with it. For the question: “Why did the Holocaust happen?” The answer “Because Hitler was insane.” isn’t useful in any way. He had to have thousands, if not millions, of folks who agreed that the Jews had to die. They may not buy all of the Great Jew Conspiracy stuff, I could believe that. But they at least had to think that those deaths were justified or profitable in some way, and that the very idea of wiping out a culture (men, women, and children) was, not in itself, an insane idea. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/102 "2011-04-14T15:47:09Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > That doesn’t explain why the Holocaust happened. I clumsily alluded to that with my “humping the drapes” joke. > > If Hitler said that it was National Policy to, on Saturday morning’s only, get naked, coat yourself in Pig fat (to ward off the Jews), then roll around in a pile of feathers and flour, then jog around your dwelling counter clockwise three times, no one would have done this. It would have been clearly the ideas of a loon. > > So to say that millions of Jews were killed in the camps because Hitler was insane does not explain why thousands(num?) of co-conspirators went along with it. > > For the question: “Why did the Holocaust happen?” The answer “Because Hitler was insane.” isn’t useful in any way. He had to have thousands, if not millions, of folks who agreed that the Jews had to die. They may not buy all of the Great Jew Conspiracy stuff, I could believe that. But they at least had to think that those deaths were justified or profitable in some way, and that the very idea of wiping out a culture (men, women, and children) was, not in itself, an insane idea. Insane people who also happen to be smart can be very convincing, especially when they prey on prejudices you already had. ---
**Author:** ![kjw47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kjw47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kjw47)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/103 "2011-04-15T00:28:41Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Don’t know where to post this or how to word it. I am afraid I will sound dumb asking this question and I don’t know exactly what I am asking but please try to understand and bear with me. I will probably be offensive or not PC in this post but I don’t know any other way to express it. > > I have always had an interest in Hitler and the history of WW2 (i.e. I’ve watched a lot of shows about him on the history and military channel and seen a couple movies, but never done any more formal research) > > but I don’t understand why would you do the holocaust? Did he really hate Jews that much? I don’t understand anti-semitimism, but I’ve read a little about it and now I can understand a little better about why not to like Jews. Not that I feel that way, but I can understand how it is possible. But I cannot comprehend hating Jews so much that you would do the holocaust. > > Or did he just do it so that he could play off existing anti-semitism to get power and become ruler? > I mean, I am watching this show on military channel alst night, and I just cannot comprehend why someone would do this. > > I seem to have a fascination with “bad” people in history. Anyone else feel this way? > Reccomend me books about Hitler/The Thrid Reich/World War 2 Here is the reality of what occured-- The trinity clergy signed a concordance with Hitler putting him into Power- The JW,s were exposing the trinity religions for what they really were, and the clergy hated the servants of Jehovah-Jews,JW,s-- The clergy knew what Hitler was all about-they allowed the young supposed christian men to do the killing for Hitler,they killed the members of their own religions who stood on the other side and vica versa. They shoved Jesus aside to do this. Exposing themselves for what they really are. If the clergy told the young men not to kill for a person like Hitler-he wouldnt have had enough of an army to attack anyone-it was that simple to stop ww2. Instead millions slaughtered and all the family lines cut off as well. Never was it Gods people vs Gods people-and it never will be so we can see who actually owns the trinity religions. It isnt Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/104 "2011-04-15T01:36:16Z")
> [@kjw47](#): > > Here is the reality of what occured-- The trinity clergy signed a concordance with Hitler putting him into Power- The JW,s were exposing the trinity religions for what they really were, and the clergy hated the servants of Jehovah-Jews,JW,s-- The clergy knew what Hitler was all about-they allowed the young supposed christian men to do the killing for Hitler,they killed the members of their own religions who stood on the other side and vica versa. They shoved Jesus aside to do this. Exposing themselves for what they really are. If the clergy told the young men not to kill for a person like Hitler-he wouldnt have had enough of an army to attack anyone-it was that simple to stop ww2. Instead millions slaughtered and all the family lines cut off as well. Never was it Gods people vs Gods people-and it never will be so we can see who actually owns the trinity religions. It isnt Jesus. 😕 AFAIK, nearly all **Protestant** churches believe in the Trinity. And all Catholics and Orthodox do, of course (differing on certain details). What’s your church? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/105 "2011-04-15T01:45:23Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > So to say that millions of Jews were killed in the camps because Hitler was insane does not explain why thousands(num?) of co-conspirators went along with it. One reason is that people can be convinced of anything if authority figures drill it into them often enough and do not allow them exposure to contradictory ideas. As the [Milgram Experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millgram_study) illustrates, there is a universal human tendency to follow not only the orders but the judgments of authority figures; and it is for some reason especially strong in German culture; and it had for carefully calculated reasons grown especially-especially strong in Germany ever since the country had been united under Prussian rule. (Historians have noted that Germany in 1914 was not only the most militaristic state but the most thoroughly militarized **society** in Europe. Which is saying something.) Another reason, of course, is that hating Jews was traditional. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/106 "2011-04-15T02:08:31Z")
> [@kjw47](#): > > Here is the reality of what occured-- The trinity clergy signed a concordance with Hitler putting him into Power- The JW,s were exposing the trinity religions for what they really were, and the clergy hated the servants of Jehovah-Jews,JW,s-- The clergy knew what Hitler was all about-they allowed the young supposed christian men to do the killing for Hitler,they killed the members of their own religions who stood on the other side and vica versa. They shoved Jesus aside to do this. Exposing themselves for what they really are. If the clergy told the young men not to kill for a person like Hitler-he wouldnt have had enough of an army to attack anyone-it was that simple to stop ww2. Instead millions slaughtered and all the family lines cut off as well. Never was it Gods people vs Gods people-and it never will be so we can see who actually owns the trinity religions. It isnt Jesus. This post, in conjunction with your other post in the thread on Libya, looks a lot like religious spam. It is not really on topic for this thread. If you need to witness, we do permit that, (although we do not permit spamming), but you will need to stay on topic, not hijacking every thread to push your Conspiracy Theories that are only posted to promote your beliefs. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/107 "2011-04-15T10:02:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > One reason is that people can be convinced of anything if authority figures drill it into them often enough and do not allow them exposure to contradictory ideas. As the [Milgram Experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millgram_study) illustrates, there is a universal human tendency to follow not only the orders but the judgments of authority figures; and it is for some reason especially strong in German culture; and it had for carefully calculated reasons grown especially-especially strong in Germany ever since the country had been united under Prussian rule. (Historians have noted that Germany in 1914 was not only the most militaristic state but the most thoroughly militarized **society** in Europe. Which is saying something.) True, damned near every function included a sort of uniform. They same can however be said of Britain, in it’s Late Empire. Uniforms abounded and there was a strong sense of hierarchy. I wonder how the English would have done, had their government given orders to round up the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/108 "2011-04-15T14:15:19Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > True, damned near every function included a sort of uniform. > They same can however be said of Britain, in it’s Late Empire. Uniforms abounded and there was a strong sense of hierarchy. > > I wonder how the English would have done, had their government given orders to round up the Jews. Quite the reverse – English society in the same period was (at least compared to Continental countries) strikingly **de** militarized. [Orwell again:](http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html#part14) > [@](#): > > The gentleness of the English civilization is perhaps its most marked characteristic. You notice it the instant you set foot on English soil. It is a land where the bus conductors are good-tempered and the policemen carry no revolvers. In no country inhabited by white men is it easier to shove people off the pavement. And with this goes something that is always written off by European observers as ‘decadence’ or hypocrisy, the English hatred of war and militarism. It is rooted deep in history, and it is strong in the lower-middle class as well as the working class. Successive wars have shaken it but not destroyed it. Well within living memory it was common for ‘the redcoats’ to be booed at in the streets and for the landlords of respectable public houses to refuse to allow soldiers on the premises. In peace time, even when there are two million unemployed, it is difficult to fill the ranks of the tiny standing army, which is officered by the country gentry and a specialized stratum of the middle class, and manned by farm labourers and slum proletarians. The mass of the people are without military knowledge or tradition, and their attitude towards war is invariably defensive. No politician could rise to power by promising them conquests or military ‘glory’, no Hymn of Hate has ever made any appeal to them. In the last war the songs which the soldiers made up and sang of their own accord were not vengeful but humorous and mock-defeatist [Note, below]. The only enemy they ever named was the sergeant-major. > > [Note: For example: > > 'I don’t want to join the bloody Army, > I don’t want to go unto the war; > I want no more to roam, > I’d rather stay at home, > Living on the earnings of a whore. > > But it was not in that spirit that they fought. (Author’s footnote.)] > > In England all the boasting and flag-wagging, the ‘Rule Britannia’ stuff, is done by small minorities. The patriotism of the common people is not vocal or even conscious. They do not retain among their historical memories the name of a single military victory. English literature, like other literatures, is full of battle-poems, but it is worth noticing that the ones that have won for themselves a kind of popularity are always a tale of disasters and retreats. There is no popular poem about Trafalgar or Waterloo, for instance. Sir John Moore’s army at Corunna, fighting a desperate rearguard action before escaping overseas (just like Dunkirk!) has more appeal than a brilliant victory. The most stirring battle-poem in English is about a brigade of cavalry which charged in the wrong direction. And of the last war, the four names which have really engraved themselves on the popular memory are Mons, Ypres, Gallipoli and Passchendaele, every time a disaster. The names of the great battles that finally broke the German armies are simply unknown to the general public. > > The reason why the English anti-militarism disgusts foreign observers is that it ignores the existence of the British Empire. It looks like sheer hypocrisy. After all, the English have absorbed a quarter of the earth and held on to it by means of a huge navy. How dare they then turn round and say that war is wicked? > > It is quite true that the English are hypocritical about their Empire. In the working class this hypocrisy takes the form of not knowing that the Empire exists. But their dislike of standing armies is a perfectly sound instinct. A navy employs comparatively few people, and it is an external weapon which cannot affect home politics directly. Military dictatorships exist everywhere, but there is no such thing as a naval dictatorship. What English people of nearly all classes loathe from the bottom of their hearts is the swaggering officer type, the jingle of spurs and the crash of boots. Decades before Hitler was ever heard of, the word ‘Prussian’ had much the same significance in England as ‘Nazi’ has today. **So deep does this feeling go that for a hundred years past the officers of the British army, in peace time, have always worn civilian clothes when off duty.** > > One rapid but fairly sure guide to the social atmosphere of a country is the parade-step of its army. A military parade is really a kind of ritual dance, something like a ballet, expressing a certain philosophy of life. The goose-step, for instance, is one of the most horrible sights in the world, far more terrifying than a dive-bomber. It is simply an affirmation of naked power; contained in it, quite consciously and intentionally, is the vision of a boot crashing down on a face. Its ugliness is part of its essence, for what it is saying is ‘Yes, I am UGLY, and you daren’t laugh at me’, like the bully who makes faces at his victim. Why is the goose-step not used in England? There are, heaven knows, plenty of army officers who would be only too glad to introduce some such thing. It is not used because the people in the street would laugh. Beyond a certain point, military display is only possible in countries where the common people dare not laugh at the army. The Italians adopted the goose-step at about the time when Italy passed definitely under German control, and, as one would expect, they do it less well than the Germans. The Vichy government, if it survives, is bound to introduce a stiffer parade-ground discipline into what is left of the French army. In the British army the drill is rigid and complicated, full of memories of the eighteenth century, but without definite swagger; the march is merely a formalized walk. It belongs to a society which is ruled by the sword, no doubt, but a sword which must never be taken out of the scabbard. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468/109 "2011-04-15T14:37:04Z")
I’m sorry. As much as I admire Orwell, I think he is over romanticising England here to contrast it with Nazi Germany. There’s more but just to take the bit about the goose-step. Yes, this particular one is an awkward march but the normal german drill is much more relaxed than the shouting, the stamping and swinging of arms that the Brits use. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-hitler/577468.md?page=5)