# I Don't Understand People That Take Their Dogs With Them EVERYWHERE They Go. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 9, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265 "2011-05-09T12:50:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DHMO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@DHMO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DHMO)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/103 "2011-05-17T19:28:54Z")
::sigh:: I’m sorry. This post is going to be very long. I have been nursing it for three days now. I just have to get some things off my chest. When I read the original post by **FoieGrasIsEvil** , I felt I just had to respond. I composed what, _I thought_, was a light-hearted and jocular response from someone who _does_ take his dogs almost everywhere. I lived in Florida for forty years, from when I was five. Most of that time, until I moved to Colorado, I lived with my parents on a two-acre homesite with a chain-link fence. We always had dogs, but there was no place to take them, and they were happy in the yard. My wife and I married relatively late, and tried to have a family, but it didn’t work out. After two miscarriages, and with our advancing age, we called it quits. We always had cats (usually two, or one if one died) but it was not until my wife semi-retired after teaching for thirty years that we decided to get a dog. For two years we researched adopting a [[COLOR=#0000ff]Great](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyrenees) [Pyrenees](http://www.google.com/search?q=great+pyrenees&hl=en&prmd=ivns&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1246&bih=745). These are absolutely beautiful dogs, with a regal, calm bearing. Very large, about 100 pounds average. We specifically wanted a female puppy, as females generally have better temperament and fewer health problems. The first breeder we negotiated with had already promised one female from her dog’s litter to another family, but said we could have the second female puppy. Of course, the litter was five male, one female.[/COLOR] We were first in line with a different breeder a year later, and eagerly anticipated our new puppy. Unfortunately, about a month before the puppies were due, the mother got very sick. The breeder took her to the vet, and they found ovarian cancer. The only way to save the life of the dog was to have a hysterectomy, sacrificing the puppies. I guess it was just not meant to be. My wife grew up with a female pedigreed Siberian Husky, which her family acquired when she was twelve, and the dog lived to be seventeen years old. It was in otherwise good health, but got a cancer in her mouth that eventually took her rather quickly. She was very fond of that dog, and Huskies were always very near the top of our list of dog breeds to adopt. So, we looked online and found a Husky breeder here in Denver. We called the number, and they said, yes, they have one puppy left to adopt out, and it was female, ten weeks old. We drove over, and absolutely fell in love with her. We paid the family, and drove off with our new puppy. Two years researching Pyrenees and we get a Husky after 15 minutes search. We went to a pet store to get a leash, collar and other supplies. We then drove to Aspen Grove, where we knew they advertised a pet-friendly atmosphere to start to socialize our puppy. We had gotten puppy treats, and gave treats to people to give to our dog, so she would make a positive association with meeting strangers. Puppies are always cute, and many, many people came up to us to see our puppy and pet her. She is so pretty, with a series of “spots” or “freckles” down her nose, rather than a stripe or blaze as most other Huskies have. We call her “Shena Punum”, a Yiddish expression meaning “Pretty Face”, since my wife is Jewish. We took her everywhere with us, but, since we also have a life, sometimes she just has to stay home and entertain herself. When she was nearly a year old, we decided to get a second Husky to keep Shena company. We looked online again, and there was a breeder in Cortez, down by the Four Corners area of Colorado (Four Corners is where the borders of the states of Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah come together. You can stand in one spot and be simultaneously standing in four states. Kinda cool.) We drove down when the litter was three weeks old, to pick out which one we wanted. Shena came with us to help us pick out her baby sister. When the litter was eight weeks old, the breeder met us half-way, in Buena Vista, so we did not have to cross the state diagonally both ways. When we got her home, we thought of what to name the new puppy. My father’s heritage is Greek, so we called her “Calliste,” which is derived from a Greek word for “Most Beautiful.” The two of them have been absolutely best friends since, and behave just like true sisters (with all that implies, spats included!) Many people ask us if they are from the same litter, they look and act so much alike. We don’t have any children, so our dogs are the focus of our love. Huskies, like most dogs, are very intelligent, empathetic creatures. When we are out on a walk, if we encounter a wheel-chair-bound person who wishes to pet our dogs, they instinctively sit quietly with their head on the person’s knee, waiting to be pet. We did not teach them this. Their intelligence is a two-edged sword, however. They learn things very rapidly, but they get _bored_ very rapidly, too! We are not professional animal trainers, but the basics are very intuitive and easy to master. Positive Reinforcement and lots of training time works wonders. They have mastered the basic obedience commands, like “Sit”, “Stay”, “Down”, “Come” and “Shake” (their paw). We have gone through the AKC [[COLOR=#0000ff]Canine Good Citizen](http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/) program. We have worked with the [Therapy Dogs International](http://www.tdi-dog.org/Default.aspx) organization, but our dogs do not have a 100% reliable recall (“Come” command.) They do, however, on many occasions go to visit [shut-ins](http://www.tdi-dog.org/OurPrograms.aspx?Page=Home+Visits), such as [nursing](http://www.tdi-dog.org/OurPrograms.aspx?Page=Nursing+Homes) and [retirement](http://www.tdi-dog.org/OurPrograms.aspx?Page=Assisted+Living) homes, [regular](http://www.tdi-dog.org/OurPrograms.aspx?Page=Hospitals+(General)) and [children’s](http://www.tdi-dog.org/OurPrograms.aspx?Page=Hospitals+(Children's)) hospitals and other places where the people have determined that interacting with dogs can have a positive, healthy impact on those types of people.[/COLOR] We have been living in Colorado for over ten years now, and frequently (especially when the weather is nice, which it almost always is here) take day trips up into the mountains. Denver is located on what is referred to locally as “The Eastern Plains.” It is a short, half-hour drive up into the “Foothills,” or an hour or two to get to the “Continental Divide.” Further out, you get to the “Western Slope.” A favored destination is the town of [[COLOR=#0000ff]Leadville](http://www.leadville.com/), which advertises itself as “North America’s highest incorporated city” at an elevation of 10,430 feet. It is an historic mining town, with early-to-mid nineteenth century architecture and Victorian homes. The main street has many shops and boutiques with a decidedly western flair. There is a scenic mountain train, originally built to haul the ore from the several mines in the area of Leadville (it was a mining town originally in the nineteenth century) but is now just used to take tourists up for some spectacular sight-seeing in the highest area in the North American mountains (Mount Elbert, the highest peak in NA, at 14,440 feet elevation, is just outside Leadville.) The train allows dogs to ride, and of the hundred or so passengers each time we have gone, there are at least a dozen or more families with dogs on the train.[/COLOR] Maybe it’s the mountain pioneer spirit, or the independence of western folk, but many of the shop owners both _have_ dogs themselves, usually in the shop with them, and allow patrons to _bring their dogs_ into the store. But the exact same thing happens at all the other western towns we visit. When Telluride has the Hot Air Balloon regatta or Breckenridge has the Snow Sculpture competition (they take a form that’s 10ftx10ftx10ft and pack it with snow and, after the form is removed, different artists and organizations carve some fantastic art into the dozens of blocks of snow) or Buena Vista or Steamboat Springs or Grand Lake or Manitou Springs (a quaint artist community at the base of Pike’s Peak, and there’s a paved road to the top of the 14,110-foot peak, and yes, they allow dogs) or Evergreen or Estes Park (at the main entrance to Rocky Mountain National Park, and for those who have ever seen _The Shining_ with Jack Nicholson, the Overlook Hotel was inspired by the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, built by F. O. Stanley, of Stanley steamer fame,) we take the dogs for a walk through the main street business district where there are _always_ dozens of locals and visitors _walking their dogs_, enjoying the weather, and _shopping_. Here in the [[COLOR=#0000ff]Metro Denver](http://www.metrodenver.org/metro-denver-economy/forecasts) area, the same spirit seems to be present in the different communities we frequent. Encompassing seven counties from north of Boulder to south of Castle Rock, there are over a million households with nearly three million population. A significant fraction of these people have dogs, and enjoy taking their dogs with them as they go about their business. Shop owners, proprietors, and property managers have embraced the spirit of the community and have elected to make shopping available to patrons who wish to bring their dogs with them as they shop. Not every store allows dogs, but enough do to make it easy, for those so inclined, to make a day of shopping, dining and recreation taking their dogs with them, and enjoy a full day together.[/COLOR] ---
**Author:** ![DHMO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@DHMO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DHMO)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/104 "2011-05-17T19:32:16Z")
I am really having trouble understanding the vitriolic _hate_ that permeates so many of the posts in this thread. In post #44, I made my first entry, where, if you care to note in the first line I said, > [@](#): > > I just don’t get the OP. Rude is rude, dog or no dog. If you go to a party and bring an uninvited guest, it does not matter how many legs they have, it’s rude. But that didn’t stop people from making outrageous remarks like > [@Guinastasia](#): > > **DHMO** > BTW, do your bring your dogs to peoples’ houses without asking? Or if you do ask and they say no, do you decline their invitation? (Note: if you’ve addressed this already, I appologize. I looked over the thread, but couldn’t find it) Try the very first line of my very first post. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > What gets up my nose is the assumption that all other people must be dog lovers, and the sense of entitlement that people like **DHMO** have that whither they goest, so goes their dog. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Think about it: why would you assume your dog was included in an invitation? Just because I _never said_ I bring my dog uninvited and _specifically stated_ how I thought people who do are rude? > [@classyladyhp](#): > > You may think your dogs are the best thing since sliced bread but you’re biased because they are your dogs. I’m sure there are people out there that do no think so highly of them. > [@classyladyhp](#): > > Dogs are not people and they should not be allowed inside malls and stores unless it’s a seeing eye dog. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > (…it’s been my experience that dog people who complain about parents talking endlessly about their kids turn around and profoundly bore others with tales of their extraordinary pets–witness\*\* DMHO\*\* in this very thread. His Huskies are wunder-dogs! Yawn. They’re dogs. Glad they’re well behaved. Move on.) > [@billfish678](#): > > Some folks apparently can’t be happy in public if dogs are out and about (which you think is silly because YOUR dogs are perfect (yeah right) and so are everyone elses (yeah double triple quadruple right Batman)). > [@eleanorigby](#): > > And what happens when they are not? What if a dog bites someone or destroys merchandise? What if fill in the blank? It is not unreasonable of business owners to limit who frequents their store due to liability or even hygiene concerns. I see no reason at all for dogs to be welcome everywhere. I don’t understand why you think that your dogs (or any other well behaved dogs) SHOULD be welcome everywhere. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Why do you not seem to understand that Fido is not welcome everywhere you are or everywhere YOU think Fido should be. Cope. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > IOW, respect other people’s differences and don’t assume that your dog(s) is as welcome as you are everywhere you go. Wait–for you I should rephrase that: don’t feel entitled to take your dogs with you everywhere you go. This is not a difficult concept to understand. And this whole _entitlement_ nonsense, where did _I ever say anything about entitlement? I stated, very plainly_, right from the start and over and over throughout this thread, that we take our dogs _where they are welcomed_, either with _explicit_ “Dogs Welcome” signage or the _express approval_ of the proprietor. In my first post: > [@DHMO](#): > > These establishments advertize that they are dog-freindly, and the stores have stickers in the window to confirm that. And in post #49: > [@](#): > > As I said earlier, > [@](#): > > “We always ask if they are welcome, and near universally, the answer is yes! There are several strip malls where dogs are welcomed into almost all the shops, except for those which serve food… **These establishments _advertize_ that they are dog-freindly, and the stores have _stickers in the window_ to confirm that.”** > [emphasis added—DHMO] > > The owners of the stores in question, and the managers of the malls obviously do not agree with your assessment. We only take our girls where they are welcome, and these retail establishments have made the determination that they will profit more from allowing well-behaved dogs and their owners into the stores than by indiscriminately enforcing a “No Dogs Allowed” policy. And in post #59: > [@](#): > > I know. You are absolutely right. Just because the _property management_ takes out _advertisements_ in the _local media_ touting their _dog-friendly atmosphere_, and has _signs and posters_ prominently displayed _throughout the premises_ saying how _dog-friendly they are_, and the dozens (or hundreds) of individual shop owners have _stickers_ in the \*windows \*saying, _“Dogs Welcome!”,_ and most have _water bowls_ out on the sidewalk or _inside_ _the shop_ for thirsty dogs, and many have _dog treats_ and _biscuits_ on hand to give to their furry customers—who the _hell_ am \*I \*to think _my dogs_ would be _welcome_ in such a place!?! > [@](#): > > It is “incredibly self-centered and potentially dangerous” of me. > > Maybe it is just that Colorado is more dog-tolerant than many other places, but this is common all across the state, in our experience. From Old Colorado City near Colorado Springs, the Colorado Outlet Mall in Castle Rock, Aspen Grove in Littleton, Bel-Mar in Lakewood to Stapleton in Denver—many, many shopping areas around the state have clearly marked dog friendly policies. They obviously have made the business determination that allowing dogs into their premises increases business more than excluding them would. And in post #66: > [@](#): > > See, the fact is, that almost all over the state, anywhere we go, there are lots of establishments such as the ones I described. Other places, while not as prominently marked, are very accomodating and welcome our furry family. Since, almost any place we go, we know that there will be stores, shops and restaurants who have decided that _allowing_ dogs is not only _not_ an impediment, but actively _encourage_ people to bring their four-footed family with them, we bring our girls with us wherever we go. Some stores which do not have an obvious “Dogs Welcome” sign still allow us to bring them in, but we ask to be sure. > [@](#): > > Occasionally, the proprietor has decided not to permit dogs into the store. That is entirely their right to do so, as it is entirely within our right to not patronize that establishment. Anybody, anywhere, for whatever reason, or no reason at all, has the right to decide whether or not to shop at any given establishment. With or without dogs. Proprietors know this, and establish policies which, to them, seem most likely to increase business. The sad truth of reality is, however, that, “You can’t please everone.” A policy which would encourage one segment of your clientele to shop more frequently will, perforce, alienate another segment. And in post #68: > [@](#): > > As I have stated (and re-stated) above, the stores where we take our dogs frequently have prominently displayed “Dogs Welcome!” signs. If the businesses involved had a problem with allowing dogs, they could choose to not allow dogs. If the corporate attorneys felt that allowing dogs into the store exposed them to some liability, they could choose to not allow dogs. If the corporate bean-counters felt that allowing dogs could destroy merchandise, they could choose to not allow dogs. If the property developer felt that their tenants would object to them advertising a dog-friendly environment for shoppers, they could choose to not allow dogs. And > [@](#): > > These businesses have made the decision to allow dogs, not because _my own personal dogs_ are so well behaved, but that, in general, _all the dogs_ who come into their stores have been well-manered and under control. As we have traveled the state, and been to many, many areas where our dogs were welcome, _without fail_, other peoples’ dogs have been polite and well-behaved. It may be because Coloradoans have more respect for their dogs, but it is obvious that they have taken the time to properly socialize their animals before they take them out in public. I am certain there are irresponsible pet owners in Colorado, who have ill-mannered and bad-tempered dogs, but, as a general rule, they are not the ones who take their dogs to public places. I would sincerely ask that these people would actually click the link in that post: > [@](#): > > One of the retail properties I mentioned above is [[COLOR=#0000ff]Aspen Grove](http://www.shopaspengrove.com/info/visitorInfo.cfm). On their “Visitor Information” webpage they specifically state: [/COLOR] > [@Aspen Grove](#): > > We love your furry friends too! Bring your leashed canine companion for an extraordinary day of shopping! Just look for the dog-friendly signs displayed on several participating store windows. In post #77, **Gray Ghost posted:** > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > IMHO, this is something that should be decided by the property owner, and only the property owner. S/he is best able to decide the effect of hir clients’ pets on hir merchandise. …and in post #79, I quoted that with the observation: > [@DHMO](#): > > And this is precisely the point I have been making over and over (and over and over… ) in this thread. > [@DHMO](#): > > The shops, stores, restaurants and other businesses have made the determination, long before I acquired my dogs, that they would welcome shoppers/diners/patrons _and their dogs_ due to whatever business model suited them. If they feel that some shoppers will stay away because “[d]ogs are, by nature filthy creatures. Give them a bath and they will go roll in dirt/dead things the first chance they get,” they have to decide whether they will lose more customers than they gain. That is purely a business decision. > > The businesses with which I come in contact have decided, for whatever their reasons, not to be concerned with customers who “don’t want to buy clothes or furniture or anything, for that matter, after you [sic] animal has drooled, shed, wiped itself, or pissed on it.” If they have the attitude that the community would more likely spend money at their establishment if they allowed, even encouraged dog owners to bring their animals shopping with them, why would any object? > \ > All I have been trying to say is, it is up to the individual business whether they choose to allow dogs or not. In Colorado, many businesses have come to the conclusion that they stand to make more profit by _allowing_ dogs rather than turning them away. Because dog-friendly environments are so ubiquitous here, I and many residents of this state have taken to bringing our beloved dogs with us wherever our travels take us, and it seems to bother nobody. And in post #82: > [@](#): > > It is not, and has not been, my position that, “all businesses should allow pets.” I have reviewed this thread and I cannot find any post of mine which says that, or any variant of that. As I have stated repeatedly, the businesses have come to the conclusion, all on their own, whether or not to allow dogs into their store. Since I prefer to take my dogs with me, I would, naturally, prefer to shop at those stores which allow me to bring my dogs in. Other people can find many establishments which do not allow dogs, and everyone is happy. And > [@](#): > > Again, it is up to the individual business whether they choose to allow dogs on the premises or not. I prefer to do business with those who welcome my dogs. Other people obviously prefer to do business with those who restrict access to only service dogs. To each their own. C’est la Vie. And > [@](#): > > All I have ever said in this thread is that many, many places of business, and other venues such as Farmers’ Markets, Craft Shows and such, have a clearly stated policy that dogs are welcome. Other places do not have signage saying so, but still welcome our dogs. If they welcome my dogs, I tend to frequent their business, and spend my money, preferentially at such establishments, as is my right. > [@](#): > > If my dogs are not welcome, I tend not to shop there, or otherwise interact with the business. I am not “boycotting” the business, or exhorting others to not shop there. I am exercising my rights as a free citizen to spend my own money at the places which most nearly fit with my lifestyle. And that lifestyle includes my beautiful dogs. In my first post (#44) I said we bring our dogs with us to restaurants which allow us to sit out on the patio or sidewalk: > [@DHMO](#): > > We frequently take them when we go out to eat, and can sit at an outdoor Cafe or sidewalk. We always ask first, and always thank the management for letting us eat there. Most of the restaurants where they are allowed (which is quite a few, here in the Denver area) tell us our dogs are welcome. They sit quietly under the table, and have never bothered a soul. That has not stopped posters from blasting me for taking my dogs\* inside\* the restaurants: > [@Guinastasia](#): > > **DHMO** > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I would also imagine a restaurant could get in trouble with the local board of health if they allowed animals inside. Outside on the sidwalk, no big deal. But if you’re bringing them inside? Seriously, I can’t imagine an eating establishment allowing that. But, even restaurants do allow service dogs inside. If there was, in fact, some horrible dog-borne disease that these animals carry with them, even the Americans with Disabilities Act could not trump the rights of patrons to eat in a disease-free environment. But there seems to be a startling lack of occurrences of this pervasive dog-disease. The media, being rabid sensationalists, would be all over the story like stink on shit if a connection had been shown between dogs sitting on a sidewalk and people contracting “poison dog germs.” And, although dog bites are far too common an occurrence in this country, why has the media not reported any significant rate of bites on patrons and employees at stores which allow customers to bring their dogs with them? I am not trying to imply that it does not happen—but that the proprietors who allow dogs have made the determination that their liability is not so great as to preclude admitting dogs onto the premises. As I have repeatedly said, we only bring our dogs with us where the store owner/manager/proprietor has _specifically_ and _explicitly_ indicated they were welcome. If there a possibility of damage to merchandise, or liability due to attacks on patrons or employees, or health problems from allergic reactions, these businesses could easily have, and enforce, a “No Dogs” policy. The fact that they do not, and to the contrary, post “Dogs Welcome” signs in the window, shows me that, in a strictly business cost-accounting, they have determined that allowing dogs increases revenue more than not allowing dogs. ---
**Author:** ![DHMO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@DHMO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DHMO)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/105 "2011-05-17T19:35:16Z")
I also stirred up a shit-storm by stating I preferentially do business with shops, stores and restaurants which allow us to bring our dogs. I stated: > [@DHMO](#): > > If we ask, politely, to bring our dogs into a place of business, and are refused, we thank them, and leave. But we will no longer patronize the establishment, with or without our dogs. We believe in voting with our wallet. Businesses and restaurants who want our business, and welcome our furry family will earn our loyalty and custom. And was met with the response: > [@Salem](#): > > While it’s certainly your right to do so, it’s ridiculous to punish a business owner for setting a policy that makes sense for their business and that they choose to enforce unilaterally rather than attempt to make a decision based on each individual situation. > You may be responsible dog owners with well-behaved dogs, but how do they know that? And what about the next people that walk in with their not-so-well-behaved dogs and say, “oh, but you let THAT DOG in there!” > It is nowhere near reasonable to expect a business owner to make a case by case assessment, especially given the potential damage should they make an error in judgement and end up with damaged/stained items, annoyed customers or worst case, an injury to an employee or customer? What if there are people in the store that are allergic to dogs and certainly not expecting to encounter someone’s dog? Are you going to pay for the damages and potential lawsuit? > Your perspective seems incredibly self-centered and potentially dangerous to others. I noted in post #79 that this attitude seemed a trifle disingenuous, as obviously, “…to punish a business owner for setting a policy that makes sense for their business and that they choose to enforce unilaterally rather than attempt to make a decision based on each individual situation” is “ridiculous”. And yet, that has not stopped posters here from such observations as: > [@Pabitel](#): > > You must live in another reality. > I cannot imagine a store that sold any kind of soft goods allowing critters that roll in their own poo to come in and rub themselves all over the merchandise. It’s just a matter of economics. > Dogs are, by nature filthy creatures. Give them a bath and they will go roll in dirt/dead things the first chance they get. > I can see letting your animals into a pet store or mechanics shop, or something like that, where their mere presence isn’t going to contaminate things, but if a store has anything that is going to be stained or end up taking on their stink then not only can I not imagine letting them in, i can’t imagine you wanting to go in and ruin their merchandise. > [@Sateryn76](#): > > I would not shop at a store that allowed dogs, for most things. Dogs smell, and they shed. Neither of which I want on the things I buy. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > ::Crosses Denver off of places to live.:: > Dog-friendly places, good for you; bad for me. I’ll vote with MY wallet and not shop in places that have dogs in them. I dunno; maybe dog-owners are different in different places; here, they are quite irresponsible about how their animals affect other people. > [@Pabitel](#): > > It doesn’t have anything to do with how socialized your mutt is. I don’t want to buy clothes or furniture or anything, for that matter, after you animal has drooled, shed, wiped itself, or pissed on it. > [@Meyer6](#): > > Letting a dog into a store is only partially about whether they are properly socialized or well behaved. Even the most angelic dog in the universe is still going to do things like shake itself off when coming in from the rain, and that will launch water and fur all over the place. Shedding, drooling, etc. all can cause damage even if the dog is a perfect gentleman. There’s also the fact that dogs take up room in the aisle, which can be narrow enough already in a small neighbourhood store. I don’t think I’d appreciate trying to manoeuvre around someone with two large huskies attached to him. > …But in a clothing store, or a furniture store, or inside a nice restaurant - um, no thank you. Colorado must be very unusual in that regard, I’ve never encountered that attitude anywhere. And while I’m no expert, I’ve been to Britain and France and Germany - dogs are indeed commonplace in pubs and pub-style restaurants, but they sure as hell aren’t in The Gap. …and > [@eleanorigby](#): > > While they lose others. Such is the nature of the marketplace. Let us say that I hope “animals welcome” remains a minority view overall. > You said that you vote with your wallet–that’s your right and I have no issue with that. But your responses to others who have said that they do not want to see/ hear/be with your animals have been dismissive, snarky and narrow-minded, IMO. Just because you love these dogs does not mean that anyone will or should. The fact that I take my dogs with me, _only_ where I have _positive proof_ that they are welcome, and have stated and re-stated that contention throughout this thread in response to people who insist that I am forcing my dogs on people in areas where they are _not welcome_, is “dismissive, snarky and narrow-minded”?!? But the part that really galls me is when I take shit because I mentioned that some people have a totally unfounded fear of dogs, which causes them to suffer serious loss of ability to function. That this is true, I attempted to convey by quoting a letter to the editor in the _Denver Post_ in which the writer stated that “[m]y son…is barred from most festivals because of his absolute terror of dogs. [Quoting from memory, I mistakenly posted “A woman claimed that her son was ‘terrified’ of dogs”—a distinction, I believe, without a difference.]” If a phobia (whether fear of dogs, snakes, spiders, lightning or whatever) causes you to stay at home, afraid to venture outside because you might encounter the object of your irrational phobia, you have a serious condition, and getting professional help is strongly indicated. This was met with, > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Yes, her complaint is unreasonable and her son needs help. I don’t see why you needed to put his terror in quotes. It’s dismissive and condescending. Have you ever had a phobia? Some day you may. Remember your smug dismissal. How, exactly, is quoting someone’s words “dismissive and condescending”? How is my post a “smug dismissal”? I was quoting material printed in the newspaper, not using _[[COLOR=#0000ff]scare quotes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes)_.[/COLOR] > [@eleanorigby](#): > > And where has anyone in this thread (or in RL) ever made this claim? What people are saying is that dogs are not welcome in all public places at all times. The letter writer was not, to the best of my knowledge, a member of the City Council or County Commission of the City and County of Denver, and was not a legislator of the State of Colorado, nor was any of her family. The clear intent of her letter was to have an ordinance passed restricting the ability of dog owners to have their dogs “presen[t] in a public place.” [This is another use of direct quotes, not “scare quotes” to convey a “smug dismissal.”] It was to this clearly stated affront to every responsible pet owner that I responded. If I take my dogs with me to a publicly accessible place, it is with the _full knowledge and consent_ of the property owner/manager/proprietor. If they feel there might be some liability due to aggression, or damaged merchandise, or allergies, they could easily _not_ post “_Dogs Welcome_” signs in the windows. If someone has a phobia about dogs, to the point that it seriously impacts their ability to function in public, it seems that the _person with the phobia_ should seek help for a debilitating condition. I am fully aware that some people are afraid of dogs. But when they shop in stores which have a clearly marked “_Dogs Welcome_” policy, it seems to me that the onus of dealing with the situation falls on them, as there are many other places to shop which _do not_ allow dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/106 "2011-05-17T19:39:57Z")
Whoa… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/107 "2011-05-17T19:55:24Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Whoa… Hey, Every hour he spent typing that is an hour he wasn’t taking his dog children somewhere out in public… ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/108 "2011-05-17T20:04:24Z")
> [@](#): > > But, even restaurants do allow service dogs inside. If there was, in fact, some horrible dog-borne disease that these animals carry with them, even the Americans with Disabilities Act could not trump the rights of patrons to eat in a disease-free environment. But there seems to be a startling lack of occurrences of this pervasive dog-disease. The media, being rabid sensationalists, would be all over the story like stink on shit if a connection had been shown between dogs sitting on a sidewalk and people contracting “poison dog germs.” The thing is, service dogs are trained to not socialize when they’re on the job. I’ve seen a couple of service dogs in restaurants, and if their person is seated, then the dog is lying down, out of the way. In fact, I will hardly notice when there’s a service dog in the eatery, and they usually cause much, much less fuss than the average child. BUT. Most people don’t train their dogs that well. Most people will let their dogs (and their kids) run up to other people and bother those other people. I’m not saying that YOU do this. I’m sure that YOUR dogs are wonderful to be around. But that’s why I’m wary about dogs, even though I like them. I used to frequent a bookstore that had a shop dog, and I’d greet the owner, then greet the dog. The dog was wonderful, and was one of the reasons I liked to shop there. But there are a lot of badly socialized dogs that are taken everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/109 "2011-05-17T22:43:12Z")
Bravo DHMO! I have stayed out of this thread simply because I don’t have the energy to argue. But you said it all, beautifully. I just don’t understand why the simple fact that some of us love our dogs and enjoy their companionship brngs out such hatred among others. It boggles my mind. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/110 "2011-05-18T02:05:56Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > BUT. Most people don’t train their dogs that well. Most people will let their dogs (and their kids) run up to other people and bother those other people. I’m not saying that YOU do this. I’m sure that YOUR dogs are wonderful to be around. But that’s why I’m wary about dogs, even though I like them. I used to frequent a bookstore that had a shop dog, and I’d greet the owner, then greet the dog. The dog was wonderful, and was one of the reasons I liked to shop there. But there are a lot of badly socialized dogs that are taken everywhere. And there are a lot of badly socialized children that are taken everywhere, even into places where they are not really allowed and definitely not appreciated. Yet the rights of parents trump the rights of everyone else, while those of us who love dogs are subject to ignorance like “rolling in their own poo”, segregation and loss of rights. Just because most people allow their dogs to run up to other people shouldn’t mean that I should end up with about a tenth of the rights that the average parent of a screaming brat has. ---
**Author:** ![faroutnapping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e0b2c6/32.png) [@faroutnapping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/faroutnapping)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/111 "2012-09-11T06:15:23Z")
When I was a kid in the 80’s most of the neighborhood dogs including ours, lived outside, in a dog house. What the heck has happened to people nowadays!! When I married my husband, he was the owner of “rescued” indoor dog with poor social habits, but that eventually calmed down over the years. When we were expecting our first born human baby, we decided to have Christmas at our home, I was 9 mths pregors. We invited both our immediate human families. We kindly put our own dog in a kennel, as to not cause him or our guests any undue stress of a full small house. First, my husband’s uncle asked if he could bring his out of control vegetarian (yes vegetarian) hound dog, after knowing we were putting our own dog in a kennel. But, at least he asked, and we uncomfortably had to decline his request. (Unbenounced to us, he left the poor thing in his car the whole time…how is that responsible!?). Then, as the guests began to arrive, here shows sister inlaw with their bulldog child!!! The dog was completely disruptive for the entire evening (0 training), and had full rein of our 4 story town home. During a discussion with my brother I referred to the animal as “the dog”. My brother inlaw took offence to that and rudely interjected, “the dog has a name you know!”. I completely regret not going ape s\*\*\* on him at the time cause my pregnancy was a good excuse, but even in my altered state of mind I had more sense than this dog parent idiot. At the very least they could have brought their kennel for their dog to stay in. The following day my husband and I spent most of our time cleaning the bull dog fur from every corner of our home. Unless someone requests that we bring our dog, we assume not to bring him. At our daughters baptism restaurant reception, of which my sister inlaw is the godmother, my brother-in law left early because his dog was home alone, the entire event only was 5 hours!! Whats next doggy nannys? They think their dog is great around kids, but I’ve actually seen him growl and lunge towards children, and they think it’s no big deal. They have no self esteem, and no respect for animals. Pets are of a different species, with diff needs and instincts, regardless of your selfish need to mentally distort reality. And yes, this obsessiveness for pets does negatively effect other humans, especially family and worsely your own pet! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/112 "2012-09-11T12:01:31Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I just don’t get it. I understand taking your dog(s) for a ride in the car on occasion, and not just to the vet, but to the park, the lake, etc.[…] > I must be getting curmudgeonly in my old age but I fail to understand people that do this. What’s wrong with leaving them at home? My sister-in-law takes her **parrot** with her everywhere she goes. But she leaves the 3 dogs at home. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/113 "2012-09-11T12:59:50Z")
> [@faroutnapping](#): > > First, my husband’s uncle asked if he could bring his out of control vegetarian (yes vegetarian) hound dog, after knowing we were putting our own dog in a kennel. Why do you seem outraged at the dog’s diet? > [@faroutnapping](#): > > During a discussion with my brother I referred to the animal as “the dog”. My brother inlaw took offence to that and rudely interjected, “the dog has a name you know!”. I completely regret not going ape s\*\*\* on him at the time cause my pregnancy was a good excuse, but even in my altered state of mind I had more sense than this dog parent idiot. So should we refer to your impending baby as “the child,” despite your pointing out that “the child has a name, you know,” you’ll be understanding when we go completely ape\*\*\*\* on you? 'Cause it could happen. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/114 "2012-09-11T13:07:31Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > So should we refer to your impending baby as “the child,” despite your pointing out that “the child has a name, you know,” you’ll be understanding when we go completely ape\*\*\*\* on you? :rolleyes: 'cos dogs are PEOPLE! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/115 "2012-09-11T14:25:07Z")
> [@faroutnapping](#): > > And yes, this obsessiveness for pets does negatively effect other humans, especially family and worsely your own pet! Only if you allow it. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/116 "2012-09-11T14:47:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > :rolleyes: 'cos dogs are PEOPLE! I don’t understand what you’re saying. Certainly a dog knows his or her name and a new baby does not. If I don’t name the baby in conversation, it has nothing to do with how _the baby_ is treated. But it would offend _the adult I’m talking to_. My point is that her refusal to name the dog has nothing to do with how to treat dogs properly, it was merely an attempt to provoke the people she wanted to “go ape\*\*\*\* on.” Your response, coming so quickly and glibly without really understanding my point, is mostly reflex, but might indicate you feel demeaned in some way by the practice of naming companion animals. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/117 "2012-09-11T14:50:15Z")
My dog isn’t an accessory, he’s my sidekick, I’ll take him wherever I can. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/118 "2012-09-11T14:55:16Z")
> [@faroutnapping](#): > > At our daughters baptism restaurant reception, of which my sister inlaw is the godmother, my brother-in law left early because his dog was home alone, the entire event only was 5 hours!! 5 hour baptism ceremony reception? You better bet I’d use my dog as an excuse to go home early. Seriously, though, depending on the time of day, 5 hours might be too long to leave a dog alone. Dogs get on schedules; they expect to be let out at certain times. I can easily leave my dogs from 6pm to midnight (or later) because that’s not “their time” to go out. 7am to noon, on the other hand, would be a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/119 "2012-09-11T15:10:43Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > 5 hour baptism ceremony reception? You better bet I’d use my dog as an excuse to go home early. I missed that. A FIVE-HOUR reception – _following_ an event that lasted some time itself? Yeah, if I didn’t have a dog I’d chew my own arm off or something. > [@Athena](#): > > Seriously, though, depending on the time of day, 5 hours might be too long to leave a dog alone. _Plus_ travel time home. Coincidentally or not, 5 hours is our rule of thumb for how long we’ll leave the dogs. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/120 "2012-09-11T15:50:15Z")
zombie or no why can’t people with a DVR or VCR, in the slow mode which give 6 hours time, just put on some episodes of Lassie or Adventures of Rin Tin Tin. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/121 "2012-09-11T19:29:34Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I don’t understand what you’re saying. Certainly a dog knows his or her name and a new baby does not. If I don’t name the baby in conversation, it has nothing to do with how _the baby_ is treated. But it would offend _the adult I’m talking to_. Any adult who is offended because someone refers to their pet by their generic name rather than specifics…isn’t much of an adult, IMO. > [@](#): > > My point is that her refusal to name the dog has nothing to do with how to treat dogs properly, it was merely an attempt to provoke the people she wanted to “go ape\*\*\*\* on.” No, I get that, but it should never have worked because who the hell gets offended by that? > [@](#): > > Your response, coming so quickly and glibly without really understanding my point, is mostly reflex, but might indicate you feel demeaned in some way by the practice of naming companion animals. I get your point, but I don’t think you got mine - and no, I have named pets, I even put a lot of thought into naming them, and _I_ refer to them by their names. But if my Dad or friends call DibbleDog\* “your dog”, I don’t go apeshit on them. I very well might get snippy if they kept referring to KidDibble\*\* as “your kid”. - Not her real name \*\* Not her real name either. ---
**Author:** ![faroutnapping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e0b2c6/32.png) [@faroutnapping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/faroutnapping)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265/122 "2012-09-15T05:23:35Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I missed that. A FIVE-HOUR reception – _following_ an event that lasted some time itself? Yeah, if I didn’t have a dog I’d chew my own arm off or something. > > _Plus_ travel time home. Coincidentally or not, 5 hours is our rule of thumb for how long we’ll leave the dogs. Some clarification, as the details have overwhelmed some dog parents… The church ceremony was a private one, so it lasted no longer than twenty minutes, drive to restaurant, 10 min, meal, conversation 3 hours tops. The in laws wanted show up at our home prior to event, and they decided to show about an hour and a half early. All this is beside the point. You are going to an event, of which you have comitted to play a rather significant part, doesn’t happen all the time. But many events will happen, weddings, birthdays, parties where your dog actually may not get invited. I know this is fact, as I too have a dog, and a child. HIRE A KENNEL OR SITTER!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-people-that-take-their-dogs-with-them-everywhere-they-go/581265.md?page=7)