# I Don't Understand Some Mod Interventions **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 10, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779 "2020-12-10T17:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/1 "2020-12-10T17:08:56Z")
[Here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/86), a mod admonishes (not warns) a poster about going off topic, characterizing the post as “attempt[ing] to derail this thread.” **UltraVires** ’s posted seemed to me to be courteous, very much on-topic, and very much in the vein of what had been discussed in the thread from the beginning. In fact, this very same mod had, upthread, before engaging as a mod, engaged in the exchange (not as a mod) about whether or not the rightness or wrongness of a given war has any bearing on the rightness or wrongness of evading or avoiding the draft for that war. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/2 "2020-12-10T17:30:30Z")
It seems borderline. The OP was basically asking about the draft assuming the war being fought was immoral. UltraVires wanted to start a discussion about “well, what if the war is righteous?” and/or “if you want conscription then you can’t let individuals decide the morality of being drafted”. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/3 "2020-12-10T17:46:48Z")
It was not in the slightest bit a hijack or an attempt to derail the thread. UV made the point that if you allowed for the unjustness of the war to be a valid determinant of the morality of evading the draft, then every draft would be subject to avoidance by people who decided that they personally considered this particular war unjust. Personally I think you can distinguish between individual morality and what society enforces. But that doesn’t mean that the post was a hijack. In general, mods have become much more interventionist of late, which is a problem in general but in particular where the mod in question is highly vested in the topic at hand, as indicated by the number of his posts in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/4 "2020-12-10T17:48:31Z")
Simple, the thread was specifically about draft avoidance/dodging during Vietnam. Part of what mods do in GD is to try and keep threads focused on the Op. He started talking about WWII. Thus the intervention. Also, only a note. Here is the part from the GD rules: > [@New Rules for Great Debates and Elections – January 2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-great-debates-and-elections-january-2020/845726/1): > > **Hijacks.** This is, perhaps, the single largest and most important change to the rules in Great Debates and Politics and Elections made in 2020. Staying on topic is a strong goal of Great Debates and Politics and Elections moving forward. Threads exist for a reason. Presumably, the original poster wants to discuss a specific topic. Posts which pull the thread away from that topic are hijacks. Some of these are inadvertent, some are not. Posts that seem intended to steer a discussion away from the original topic may be sanctioned. Hijacks may be, but are not limited to, posts that lead away from a topic, endless questioning, repeatedly asking the same or similar questions once they’ve been answered, and other maneuvers. Whether or not such is occurring is at the sole discretion of the moderation staff and may lead to official sanction. If I felt he was trying to derail the topic on purpose, I would have given a warning. I see no reason to believe that and so just a note. * * * As I got ninja’d let me add. We are enforcing rules more that in the past as there is more coverage now. But these rules have existed for the last year. Here is the GD rules > [@New Rules for Great Debates and Elections – January 2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-great-debates-and-elections-january-2020/845726): > > Moderation in Great Debates and Politics and Elections In general, Great Debates and Politics and Elections are the most contentious fora on the SDMB. Because of that, you’ll find that moderation is more active and prone to sanctioning posters. You can compare it to sitting at the holiday dinner next to the crazy uncle who can’t help being unpleasant. Please don’t be that guy. Be aware that most rules are not ‘bright line’. This is intentional on our part as we believe such encourages poor … ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/5 "2020-12-10T17:50:51Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Here is the part from the GD rules: I hereby propose a loosening of this rule. I thought UV’s comment was close enough, and I had intended to respond to it. Threads evolve. Or should. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/6 "2020-12-10T17:55:30Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Simple, the thread was specifically about draft avoidance/dodging during Vietnam. This is not rational, is not the way the rule has ever been enforced, is not the way it should be enforced, and is not the way it will be enforced going forward. Not by you, not by any other moderators. This was completely arbitrary, and WRT a matter you have strong feelings about. Even if the discussion is about a specific instance, testing out how principles applied to that situation would apply in other situations is a valid and necessary part of that discussion. That’s how courts work in deciding legal principles, that’s how rational people work in discussing matters IRL, and that’s how people discuss things on this MB. No way around that, if you have any hope of discussing things rationally. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/7 "2020-12-10T17:57:52Z")
This isn’t a court. This was a simple application of the rules to keep the thread about Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/8 "2020-12-10T17:58:39Z")
The best I can understand of it is: 1. Mods consider the thread to be specific about Vietnam and Vietnam alone. 2. Posters consider it to be a broader discussion about draft dodging and conscientious objection in general. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/9 "2020-12-10T17:59:41Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > This was a simple application of the rules to keep the thread about Vietnam. The discussion of the Vietnam draft could be illuminated by comparisons and contrasts to other wars. I don’t generally care what the Mods do around here, (and I mostly agree with them), but this is insanity. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/10 "2020-12-10T18:04:43Z")
I read his post one more time. Looks like the start of an interesting thread. It doesn’t fit in the one he posted in. The thread in question has a narrow focus. That should be respected. Your opinion can vary of course. But that’s how I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/11 "2020-12-10T18:08:23Z")
You’re the mod, you spoke as a mod, it’s a done deal. I get that. That said, certainly the thread in question has a “narrow focus,” but it seems to me to be self-evident that a thread about the morality of draft avoidance in one war cannot exclude thoughts and questions and references to the morality of conscription in general, and of conscription and avoidance of such conscription in other wars. I think you’re defining “narrow” way too narrowly. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/12 "2020-12-10T18:11:14Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The thread in question has a narrow focus. That should be respected. The thread in question was about whether it was moral to avoid the draft during the Vietnam war. That invites conversation about whether it is always moral or avoid the draft, never moral to avoid the draft, or sometimes moral, depending on _factors._ It is impossible to keep the discussion focused on only one war. As seems to be implied in the OP of that thread: > [@The morality of draft avoidance/dodging during Vietnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/1): > > I should note that regarding the use of the draft in the first place, I don’t have a personal moral position on conscripting people during an actual national emergency; on one hand, a draft is always a serious infringment of one’s liberty; on the other, given that I am someone who believes in the common good, I can see how conscription might be justified in the event of an actual threat to the nation, though I don’t take any position on the matter (and I don’t pass judgment on those who choose to avoid the draft). However, I consider a peacetime draft (compulsory military service) to be an unjustified government restriction on individual liberties (thus IMO the USA unequivocally wronged Elvis Presley when he was drafted) and a draft to fight a war that is purely political, such as Vietnam, to be GROSSLY immoral and criminal. I think a draft should always be considered at best a necessary evil and a last resort. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/13 "2020-12-10T18:22:37Z")
It’s really hard to tell what is thread-derailing and what is simply a relevant prior example or cousin of the thread. For instance, suppose there is a thread about “Why did U.S. intelligence agencies fail to prevent 9/11” - is it appropriate or not for a Doper to bring up how U.S. intelligence failed to prevent Pearl Harbor, as a way of illustrating why 9/11 also wasn’t prevented? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/14 "2020-12-10T19:07:51Z")
If you quote a post, then copy-paste the quote to a new thread, the two will automatically link to each other - one of the many wonderful benefits of the move to Discourse. That seems like a particularly elegant way to handle this sort of situation. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/15 "2020-12-11T08:13:16Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If you quote a post, then copy-paste the quote to a new thread, the two will automatically link to each other - one of the many wonderful benefits of the move to Discourse. That seems like a particularly elegant way to handle this sort of situation.  It’s more elegant than that. No need to copy and paste. Make a reply that quotes the post, then click the right pointing arrow above the post box, and you can choose the option “Reply as linked topic.” I’ve almost accidentally done that several times. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/16 "2020-12-11T16:17:04Z")
Agreed. I’m just scratching my head. Back less than a week and I get this ridiculous pile of moderation. Remember back during the gay marriage debates and people would say something to the effect of how banning gay marriage was like banning interracial marriage? Should those comments have been modded because the topic was gay marriage and not interracial marriage and thus a hijack? It is a perfectly legit form of debate, to compare and contrast similar things to see if the proposition holds water. The OP in that thread stated that he/she was not opposed to the draft in general, but thought it was okay to skirt the draft for Vietnam. In what universe is it not then okay to point out that if we are going to have a draft, you cannot leave it up to individuals to choose to comply based on their own subjective view of the propriety of the particular war? IMO, nothing remotely close to this has ever been modded before. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/17 "2020-12-11T16:26:33Z")
You were given a note, the sky isn’t falling ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/18 "2020-12-11T16:41:37Z")
I…agree with Ultravires. Examining the morality of avoiding a draft _in general_ is an appropriate response to examining the morality of avoiding a draft _in a specific case_. I suspect Ultravires and I disagree on the outcome of that examination: I think it’s never inappropriate to refuse to take up arms on behalf of a government, when you consider that government’s demands to be immoral. But it’s definitely okay to ask the more general question as a way of addressing the more specific question. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/19 "2020-12-11T16:55:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I suspect Ultravires and I disagree on the outcome of that examination: I think it’s never inappropriate to refuse to take up arms on behalf of a government, when you consider that government’s demands to be immoral. But it’s definitely okay to ask the more general question as a way of addressing the more specific question. I’m sorry, but this is a thread about moderator behavior, and you have blurred the line and introduced the topic of what was moderated. s/ ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779/20 "2020-12-11T16:55:52Z")
Restricting the scope of the thread so narrowly really does seem an odd idea. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-some-mod-interventions/927779.md?page=2)