# I don't understand this warning for puddleglum **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 11, 2020, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444 "2020-06-11T11:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/1 "2020-06-11T11:48:12Z")
**puddleglum** was warned for saying “potato eating savages” when referring to low crime rates in Ireland. Here’s the warning: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22348240&postcount=95](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22348240&postcount=95) Can someone explain what was warnable there? **Jonathan Chance** says **puddleglum** was being a jerk, but I just don’t see it. Here’s the original post: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22347806&postcount=91](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22347806&postcount=91) I wish I knew how to properly quote posts from a different thread, so maybe someone can do that for me (and explain the mechanism). Anyway, I don’t see any jerkishness here at all. It’s just a joke. Is it an ethnic joke? If so, it’s super mild. Can a moderator help me out here? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/2 "2020-06-11T11:54:59Z")
It’s a racial slur. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/3 "2020-06-11T11:57:39Z")
Potato eating savages would be an ethnic slur in my book. Admittedly on the milder scale but also entirely unnecessary and out of place in a Great Debates thread on American racial disparity. Maybe something you can shrug off in a different context but it’s out of place there. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/4 "2020-06-11T11:57:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s a racial slur. I guess you mean it’s an ethnic slur, but is it? Do you have a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/5 "2020-06-11T12:00:22Z")
> [@jonesj2205](#): > > Potato eating savages would be an ethnic slur in my book. Admittedly on the milder scale but also entirely unnecessary and out of place in a Great Debates thread on American racial disparity. Maybe something you can shrug off in a different context but it’s out of place there. I’m all for civility in the debate forums, and I’ve even tried to get negative political nicknames banned. I think that drive-by slurs are a bad thing and add nothing to a debate. However, mild humor like this can lighten things up. I get that it’s a slur, sort of, but it’s such a harmless joke that I don’t understand the warning. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/6 "2020-06-11T12:02:06Z")
“Potato eating savages” isn’t all that mild. It may have been intended as a joke but it’s equivalent to calling Mexicans “beaners” or someone from India a “curry muncher”. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/7 "2020-06-11T12:20:23Z")
I’ve routinely seen white trash used without any modding, seems inconsistent but I’m sure uh we nobody reported those or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/8 "2020-06-11T13:35:38Z")
It was a silly warning, and the moderators likely misunderstood the intention. As I understood it, it wasn’t intended to imply that Irish were “potato eating savages” (the opposite, if anything). It was an ironic line in the context of the point he was making about low crime rates in Ireland. That’s the second bogus warning I recall puddleglum getting recently, so I suppose he’s well on his way to being banned for a long pattern of being a jerk. So it goes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/9 "2020-06-11T13:41:55Z")
I took it as entirely ironic. If there are any Irish folks out there offended, I’ll defer to them, but I have trouble seeing this as equivalent to slurs that are actually used to dehumanize. I’ll also note that I get really annoyed with puddleglum’s arguments quite frequently, but I think he’s an honest and good contributor who just so happens to be incredibly, dangerously wrong about politics. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/10 "2020-06-11T14:18:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I took it as entirely ironic. If there are any Irish folks out there offended, I’ll defer to them, but I have trouble seeing this as equivalent to slurs that are actually used to dehumanize. I take it you don’t know any Irish people or know anything about Irish history. I’m an Irish-American, and my great-great grandfather was a refugee from the Great Famine. Considering the centuries of severe repression of the Irish, such offensive slurs should not be tossed around lightly. I found it very offensive. The poster no doubt meant it ironically, but that’s still no excuse. As **e\_c\_g** says it’s in the same category as “beaner,” “currry-muncher,” “greaser,” etc.; adding “savage” made it worse. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/11 "2020-06-11T14:31:20Z")
See “potato-eater” in [The Racial Slur database.](http://www.rsdb.org/race/irish) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/12 "2020-06-11T14:39:22Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I guess you mean it’s an ethnic slur, but is it? Do you have a cite for that? One doesn’t need a “cite” to realize that calling any group “savages” is a slur. In bringing “savage” into the description of other people and cultures, we conveniently ignored an ugly history of abuse against Indigenous peoples. It was the standard way of excusing conquest and killing during European imperial expansion. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/13 "2020-06-11T14:43:03Z")
Right, but in context, he was saying the opposite – they are not savages because, even though their per capita police officer level is similar to the US, their crime rate is much lower. This is as opposed to slurs like Karen and white trash that are typically used to disparage the target. **puddleglum** ’s usage was explicitly non-disparaging. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/14 "2020-06-11T14:47:46Z")
Whoa, I didn’t take it that way. Nor did those who reported it. It was a drive-by slur from someone who’s been here long enough to know better. And I know my ex-wife’s family - from Ireland (not Irish American) and Irish to the point where they were horrified we gave our youngest a welsh name - would have been up in arms about it. Puggleglum may not, but they sure as shit remember the famine. Not personally, of course, but they’re sensitive about it. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/15 "2020-06-11T14:51:26Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > “Potato eating savages” isn’t all that mild. It may have been intended as a joke but it’s equivalent to calling Mexicans “beaners” or someone from India a “curry muncher”. Can you please respond to my request in [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=897400) thread? See posts 124 and 125. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/16 "2020-06-11T14:57:20Z")
Here’s the full sentence: > [@](#): > > I hate to give the potato eating savages in Ireland any credit, but even after a two decades long decline in crime, crime rates in the US are 6 times as high as they are in Ireland. That is why their incarceration rates are so much lower. He’s saying that US crime rates are much worse that Ireland’s, even after we’ve had a two-decade decline. So, the Irish are less “savage” than the US. I hate when people try to probe the boundaries of discourse here and I understand the need for flexibility, but, for example, if France won some battle and someone wrote, “for a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys, they really kicked England’s ass”, I wouldn’t take that as an actual slur against France or French people. Neither this, or **puddleglum** ’s usage would have pinged my radar at all. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/17 "2020-06-11T14:59:38Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Right, but in context, he was saying the opposite – they are not savages because, even though their per capita police officer level is similar to the US, their crime rate is much lower. Not really. He was expressing surprise that such “savages” could possibly have gotten something right, when more civilized people couldn’t. It’s like expressing surprise that a black person could possibly graduate from Harvard. ETA: His phrasing it as “I hate to give the potato eating savages any credit” just confirms the fact that he has disdain for Irish people. I’m astonished that you can’t see how offensive this is. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/18 "2020-06-11T15:12:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not really. He was expressing surprise that such “savages” could possibly have gotten something right, when more civilized people couldn’t. It’s like expressing surprise that a black person could possibly graduate from Harvard. > > ETA: His phrasing it as “I hate to give the potato eating savages any credit” just confirms the fact that he has disdain for Irish people. I’m astonished that you can’t see how offensive this is. To me, he was obviously showing fake disdain for the Irish people. Who in America, in the last 50 or 100 years, really have disdain for the Irish? It was clearly irony (or satire?) to me. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/19 "2020-06-11T15:16:40Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > if France won some battle and someone wrote, “for a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys, they really kicked England’s ass”, I wouldn’t take that as an actual slur against France or French people. That’s a little different. It’s specifically regarding a negative stereotype of the French being cowardly due to their actions and inactions in WWII. I don’t think puddleglum was making his comment based on any known negative stereotype of the Irish. I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt. > [@Colibri](#): > > Not really. He was expressing surprise that such “savages” could possibly have gotten something right, when more civilized people couldn’t. It’s like expressing surprise that a black person could possibly graduate from Harvard. > > ETA: His phrasing it as “I hate to give the potato eating savages any credit” just confirms the fact that he has disdain for Irish people. I’m astonished that you can’t see how offensive this is. I’m confused here. Earlier you said that it was clearly meant ironically, but that was no excuse. What you wrote above suggests you think he meant it literally. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444/20 "2020-06-11T15:18:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I take it you don’t know any Irish people or know anything about Irish history. I’m an Irish-American, and my great-great grandfather was a refugee from the Great Famine. Considering the centuries of severe repression of the Irish, such offensive slurs should not be tossed around lightly. I found it very offensive. > > The poster no doubt meant it ironically, but that’s still no excuse. As **e\_c\_g** says it’s in the same category as “beaner,” “currry-muncher,” “greaser,” etc.; adding “savage” made it worse. Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-this-warning-for-puddleglum/855444.md?page=2)