# I don't understand what Jenn Sterger is up to (regarding Farve) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 24, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177 "2010-10-24T10:25:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/121 "2010-10-26T18:46:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I wouldn’t call them innocuous. Favre is a married man, and he was clearly trying to cheat on his wife. None of that is of any public or League relevance, and I say they’re “innocuous” because the voice messages do not contain anything sexual explicit, harrassing or threatening, just an invitation to see him at his hotel. > [@](#): > > That, in an of itself, it not enough to justify league discipline, but if there’s more to it, things can get ugly. If there’s “more” to anything than anything can get ugly. That’s just a tautology. The fact remains that there does _not_ appear to be more. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/122 "2010-10-26T18:48:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So the theory you’re offering is that maybe somebody took some random pictures of a guy’s penis. Published it on a public website for sports gossip. No theory is necessary. You’re the one with the burden of proof. Prove it’s Favre’s cock. I think Deadspin probably really bought the pics from someone, but even THEY say the pics might not be Favre. Favre denies it. Sterger has said nothing about them. Nothing is going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/123 "2010-10-26T18:50:39Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > First of all, whether an action is a crime doesn’t depend on it being prosecuted. It’s a civil matter. Under no circumstances would it be a crime. It’s an offense or a tort, not a crime. Favre could be sued, he can’t be prosecuted. These are very important distinctions. In the case of Sexual Harassment there must be a complaint for it to be a violation. The primary facet of the allegation is that the attention was _unwelcome_. If it’s not unwelcome it’s not a violation. This is outlined by the U.S. EEOC. > [@](#): > > Sexual harassment is “unwelcome . . . verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature . . . .” 29 C.F.R. § 1604.11(a). Because sexual attraction may often play a role in the day-to-day social exchange between employees, “the distinction between invited, uninvited-but-welcome, offensive- but-tolerated, and flatly rejected” sexual advances may well be difficult to discern. Barnes v. Costle, 561 F.2d 983, 999, 14 EPD ¶ 7755 (D.C. Cir. 1977) (MacKinnon J., concurring). But this distinction is essential because sexual conduct becomes unlawful only when it is unwelcome. The Eleventh Circuit provided a general definition of “unwelcome conduct” in Henson v. City of Dundee, 682 F.2d at 903: the challenged conduct must be unwelcome “in the sense that the employee did not solicit or incite it, and in the sense that the employee regarded the conduct as undesirable or offensive.” As Sterger has not filed any complaint nor said that the advances were not welcome there simply is no unlawful act, period. That she saved the photos to laugh about them with friends implies to me that while the advances were not reciprocated they also were not unwelcome. These distinctions are crucial. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/124 "2010-10-26T18:51:13Z")
Something already happened. You’re the only one concerned about whether he’s going to get disciplined. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/125 "2010-10-26T18:55:43Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > It’s a civil matter. Under no circumstances would it be a crime. It’s an offense or a tort, not a crime. Favre could be sued, he can’t be prosecuted. These are very important distinctions. Look, I’m not trying to pull rank or anything, but I’m familiar with the distinction between a crime and a tort, and you’re mistaken. Harassment’s a crime, as is intentional exposure of your joint to unwilling audiences. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/126 "2010-10-26T18:57:59Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > First of all, whether an action is a crime doesn’t depend on it being prosecuted. No crime has even been alleged. > [@](#): > > The fact that nothing is going to happen is the problem we’re talking about. Nothing is going to happen because _if_ Sterger, who nobody has reason one to suspect did anything untoward in any of this, had personally made a big deal out of it, she knew she’d have to deal with the sexist victim blaming bullshit the like of which is going on in this thread. This is a complete load of crap. Favre has been assumed guilty from the beginning. Lok at this thread. You’re accusing him of a “crime,” without the slightest basis to do so, just because he’s Brett Favre. > [@](#): > > Nothing’s going to happen because it isn’t worth it to the victim to go through the process of actually complaining. What victim? Victim of what? Prove that there’s a victim. > [@](#): > > And you personally are proving her right by acting like this is somehow a campaign to destroy Favre. I don’t think teher’s a campaign to destroy Favre, but I do that that people are rooting for something to happen to Favre just because they’re still butthurt that he left Green Bay. > [@](#): > > By noting that he sent her pictures of his cock that she didn’t want, and called her a bunch of times. Prove he sent her pictures of his cock. She hasn’t accused him of that or of anything else. Your spin that she’s “afraid” is just sour grapes bullshit. If you’re going to accuse him of a crime, back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/127 "2010-10-26T18:59:03Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > It’s a civil matter. Under no circumstances would it be a crime. It’s an offense or a tort, not a crime. Favre could be sued, he can’t be prosecuted. These are very important distinctions. > > In the case of Sexual Harassment there must be a complaint for it to be a violation. The primary facet of the allegation is that the attention was _unwelcome_. If it’s not unwelcome it’s not a violation. This is outlined by the U.S. EEOC. > > As Sterger has not filed any complaint nor said that the advances were not welcome there simply is no unlawful act, period. That she saved the photos to laugh about them with friends implies to me that while the advances were not reciprocated they also were not unwelcome. These distinctions are crucial. The report is that Sterger never gave Favre her phone number, that Favre got it from some Jets employee. And Sterger has not categorically said she won’t talk to the NFL, yet. So this drama has yet to completely play out. However, in the end I think there won’t be enough evidence of anything to discipline Favre. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/128 "2010-10-26T19:00:53Z")
BTW, I think it is more likely the Jets get disciplined by the league than Favre. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/129 "2010-10-26T19:02:30Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Look, I’m not trying to pull rank or anything, but I’m familiar with the distinction between a crime and a tort, and you’re mistaken. Harassment’s a crime Cite? Show us the statute. > [@](#): > > as is intentional exposure of your joint to unwilling audiences. This is a desperate reach on your part. No one has accused Favre of doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/130 "2010-10-26T19:03:37Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > The report is that Sterger never gave Favre her phone number, that Favre got it from some Jets employee. And Sterger has not categorically said she won’t talk to the NFL, yet. So this drama has yet to completely play out. However, in the end I think there won’t be enough evidence of anything to discipline Favre. What report? I guess it doesn’t matter. Favre has admitted to the innocuous voice mails. Nothing wrong with those. It’s not illegal to hit on hot chicks. So far, it looks like that’s all that happened, though. He’s denying the dick pics are his, and there’s no way to prove he did send them. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/131 "2010-10-26T19:03:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No crime has even been alleged. > > This is a complete load of crap. Favre has been assumed guilty from the beginning. Lok at this thread. You’re accusing him of a “crime,” without the slightest basis to do so, just because he’s Brett Favre. > > What victim? Victim of what? Prove that there’s a victim. > > … > > Prove he sent her pictures of his cock. She hasn’t accused him of that or of anything else. Your spin that she’s “afraid” is just sour grapes bullshit. If you’re going to accuse him of a crime, back it up. You are literally delusional. Fuck your standard of proof. Prove it to who? _You?_ I’m not prosecuting the man. I’m “alleging” on a message board, not as an agent of the state. And I repeat: I don’t give a shit about Brett Favre. Sterger said she received voicemails and pictures of Brett Favre’s cock from Brett Favre. Even Favre admits he left the voicemails. Why are we even talking about this aspect of it? There’s nothing to argue about. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/132 "2010-10-26T19:06:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No theory is necessary. You’re the one with the burden of proof. Prove it’s Favre’s cock. > > I think Deadspin probably really bought the pics from someone, but even THEY say the pics might not be Favre. Favre denies it. Sterger has said nothing about them. Nothing is going to happen. This is an online message board not a court of law. We’re allowed to form conclusions based on the preponderance of evidence. And the evidence is that what appears to have happened - Brett Favre sent Jenn Sterger unsolicited pictures of his penis - is what actually happened. And I’m no Brett Favre hater. I’m from Buffalo so I’m a Tom Brady hater. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/133 "2010-10-26T19:08:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cite? Show us the statute. New York Penal Code §240.25 and 26. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/134 "2010-10-26T19:11:18Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > You are literally delusional. > > Fuck your standard of proof. Prove it to who? _You?_ I’m not prosecuting the man. I’m “alleging” on a message board, not as an agent of the state. This is a message board where you’re expected to be able to back up your assertions. If you can’t back them up, don’t make them. > [@](#): > > Sterger said she received voicemails and pictures of Brett Favre’s cock from Brett Favre. No she didn’t,. Sterger has said nothing at all. > [@](#): > > Even Favre admits he left the voicemails. The voicemails are completely innocuous, so who gives a shit? > [@](#): > > Why are we even talking about this aspect of it? There’s nothing to argue about. I’m just asking you to back up your assertions. If you can’t back them up, don’t make them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/135 "2010-10-26T19:12:24Z")
[quote=“Little\_Nemo, post:132, topic:558177”] This is an online message board not a court of law. We’re allowed to form conclusions based on the preponderance of evidence. And the evidence is that what appears to have happened - Brett Favre sent Jenn Sterger unsolicited pictures of his penis - is what actually happened.[/quote What evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/136 "2010-10-26T19:12:24Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Look, I’m not trying to pull rank or anything, but I’m familiar with the distinction between a crime and a tort, and you’re mistaken. Harassment’s a crime, as is intentional exposure of your joint to unwilling audiences. Care to illuminate me here? In what way is Sexual Harassment a CRIMINAL offense? Has there been a sexting case which resulted in a criminal conviction? Criminal prosecution even? This whole thing is about a married guy who clumsily tried to get some poon. The only people alleging criminal activity are people talking out their ass in this thread and I think it’s important to set that record straight. Hate on Favre if you want for being a dork and a lech, hate on Sterger for being a idiot for showing the photos to a reporter. But lets not go accusing people of crimes they didn’t commit or don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/137 "2010-10-26T19:12:53Z")
Where’d the story come from in the first place, **Diogenes**? Why does anybody know that this happened? When’d you get your law degree, **Omni**? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/138 "2010-10-26T19:23:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He’s denying the dick pics are his, and **there’s no way to prove he did send them**. Phone records? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/139 "2010-10-26T19:27:03Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > New York Penal Code §240.25 and 26. You’re welcome. Nope. > [@](#): > > § 240.25 Harassment in the first degree. > A person is guilty of harassment in the first degree when he or she > intentionally and repeatedly harasses another person by following such > person in or about a public place or places or by engaging in a course > of conduct or by repeatedly committing acts which places such person in > reasonable fear of physical injury. This section shall not apply to > activities regulated by the national labor relations act, as amended, > the railway labor act, as amended, or the federal employment labor > management act, as amended. > Harassment in the first degree is a class B misdemeanor. [http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0240.26\_240.25.html](http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0240.26_240.25.html) > [@](#): > > 240.26 Harassment in the second degree. > A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with > intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person: > 1. He or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects such other > person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or > 2. He or she follows a person in or about a public place or places; or > 3. He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts > which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no > legitimate purpose. > Subdivisions two and three of this section shall not apply to > activities regulated by the national labor relations act, as amended, > the railway labor act, as amended, or the federal employment labor > management act, as amended. > Harassment in the second degree is a violation. [http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0240.26\_240.25.html](http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0240.26_240.25.html) Swing and a miss on both counts. No sexual harassment referenced here, and nothing Deadspin accuses Favre of meets any of the criteria for criminal harassment. Did you even bother to read these statutes, or did you just see the word. “harassment” and think you had a gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177/140 "2010-10-26T19:28:06Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Phone records? The NFL has no power to subpoena phone records. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-jenn-sterger-is-up-to-regarding-farve/558177.md?page=8)