The number of people who would sacrifice their career for a purely symbolic gesture is quite small.
I’m not so sure it would be purely symbolic. It’s entirely possible that some Republicans are just afraid to be the first, or the only, one to dissent. If we got past that first and only, maybe others could find their courage.
There would have to be some tangible reward, though. If all Republican politicians get for “doing the right thing” is that the R’s won’t vote for them, ***and ***the D’s won’t vote for them, then they’re falling on their sword for nothing tangible.
You would be hard pressed to convince 20 Republican senators to do that.
The tangible reward is a greater likelihood of not being a pariah in a few years if/when the total truth comes out and makes them look like the enablers of monstrosities. Obviously no guarantee, but some of these guys know what’s really going down. If it’s really bad, as I think it might be, then that truth is going to come out and they have a high likelihood of having their legacy and future trashed for good.
Good thread here by a Politico correspondent. (Never thought I’d write those words.) An excerpt:
He goes on to say that that’s still no excuse for their unwillingness to do what many of them know is right. But that’s what they’re looking at: a cost that’s huge on multiple levels of their lives.
While it’s unlikely that I would have ever found myself in Congress in the first place, if I were there, I’m probably better situated than most to do the right thing. I’ve been a bit of a loner for long stretches of my life, so I’m not particularly dependent on what other people think of me. And there have been times I’ve done the easy thing rather than the right thing - and they still burn my soul, even when they happened decades ago, which is a powerful incentive to do the right thing in the here and now. But even given all that, I’d really really hate to be put to that sort of test. So I’ve got some sympathy for them, knowing they’ve lived the sorts of lives that have not prepared them at all well for a moment like this.
But still: they’re flunking one of the biggest tests of their lives. By running for Congress, they had to know that they would face choices between doing the politically easy thing and doing the right thing, and they ran anyway. They knowingly put themselves in a position of publicly facing tests like this one, though they may not have figured on one quite this big. So my sympathy, though present, is limited.
It is a coordination problem, any number less than 20 is purely symbolic. There is no practical way for 20 Republican senators to conspire against Trump without it leaking and spooking the rest of the senators who would suffer consequences for no purpose.
Not for calling witnesses – they only need a very few.
RTFirefly, I though your post was eloquent and incisive.
I was responding to your comment about Trump burning the whole thing down if the GOP senators turn on him. He’d be in no position to burn anything down if they did betray him. The point is, the Senators don’t betray Trump because to do so would be betraying more than just Trump; they’d be betraying their own voters, the Christian jihadists, and the oligarchs. They’d be betraying themselves, basically. That’s why they don’t abandon Trump.
The entire Republican party is attempting a radical transformation of American political culture and they’re implementing that transformation right before our eyes. It begins with the death of truth. Where it ends is the more important unanswered, ominous question.
which is exactly what I’ve said before, even on this thread:
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22106876&postcount=16
Translation: politics is a business. It’s how already rich people ensure that they stay rich, and as I’ve said repeatedly (despite being called an alarmist and hyperbolic), the republican party represents oligarchy.
And that’s an important realization, because when you understand that, then you understand that they have absolutely no fucking use for any one of us as voters and citizens, not unless we’re enriching them or ingratiating them.
The next round of Coca-KoolAid Zero® is on me. Enjoy… 
I have pointed out before that a large failing of the media is that they have let Trump coast on his policy.
Whether he working on the things that his electorate wants, or not, there’s something to be said for whether you’re competent at that.
As it is, Trump hasn’t had any effect on illegal immigration, other than perhaps by expanding the number of worker visas allowed to Mexico. His tariffs have made it more expensive for America to sell its products and for us to buy raw goods from elsewhere, making us less competitive and opening up a gap for China to fill. He’s been raising our Federal spending and we’ve gone from being projected to topple over around 2050 to 2030. He’s fired or caused the top five layers of the Department oh Homeland Security to leave, so that we would in essence have substitute teachers running the show if there was a terrorist attack or major disaster, and we don’t have anyone looking ahead to prevent those sorts of things from happening. And so on.
The only good thing that he has done, in the eyes of his own people, would be to appoint all Conservative judges. I do not believe that he ever mentioned that on the campaign trail and the indications that I saw seemed to suggest that (if I recall correctly) that was started by Don McGahn on his own.
:sigh:
Quoting this passage a second time:
Now could you point me to where you said that already in this thread?
When I wrote this:
I was referring to their membership in an oligarchy, but more than that, their membership in a political ecosystem, which explains why they indeed have something to lose.
What Alberta said wasn’t materially different from what I wrote: exile from the Republican political ecosystem is the end of their political identity, but more than that, the end of their political identity is the end of their access to power. And that means a lot to these guys and gals – a lot. Loss of power, loss of standing…is arguably the end of their own personal identity.
Anyone who thinks that any of these oligarchs can think that far into the future and care about “legacy” or how history will judge them, please…it’s naive, childish thinking to believe that we were ever going to be saved by Mueller, impeachment, the facts, by statesmanship, or civic virtue.
They . don’t . care.
Bear in mind that in the minds of many Congressional Republicans, supporting Trump *is *the right thing. They aren’t facing a choice of “the easy thing or the right thing?” For them, the easy thing *is *the right thing.
I agree with you so much I don’t know whether to cry or sit in the corner and suck my thumb. Maybe both.
Agreed. There seems to be some sort of idea running through this thread that the Republicans are only doing this because they are threatened or extorted somehow, and that without that threat, they would care about the welfare of the people of the US over that of their personal affairs.
That is not the case, they do support Trump because he is doing the right thing to them. It is bad for the people of the country, and for the world as a whole, but it is good for them, which makes it easy to call it right.
Seriously, the senators will not vote in favor of impeachment, or for anything that helps it, because they do not believe that abusing your power to stay in power is wrong. Most of them do it themselves. They agree entirely with the idea that staying in power is the right thing to do, and that no matter who they have to hurt, no mater what damage they have to do, they will keep that power. To them, ruling over ashes is acceptable as long as it means that there isn’t someone out there that got something that they don’t think that they deserved.
They idolize Trump. Before Trump, there were norms that kept their greed and hatreds in check. Now that Trump has blown those norms away, they are free to be as greedy and hateful as they desire. Why would they go against that, as Velocity says, they believe that that is what is right.
It didn’t take long for the knives to come out.
Romney not welcome at CPAC after impeachment witness vote
It’s likely that Mitt Romney couldn’t care less about what the Conservative Political Action Caucus thinks. He was just elected in 2018, and reelection is a long way away. But the swiftness of the action is a warning to anyone who dare crosses Trump.
This is inaccurate. In the eyes of his own people, he’s done something that’s more satisfying than any conceivable policy on immigration, taxes, trade, or anything else. He causes liberal tears. That’s one campaign promise that he definitely delivered on, in fact, he was delivering on it before he was even elected. His base absolutely eats this up. I’ve heard it over and over from Trump supporters: “I love how he absolutely causes the left to melt down!” And they really do love it. It’s entertainment to them, just as much as watching football or a Netflix series or listening to music. They really, really love it.
If one day, suddenly all your Netflix and Hulu and Amazon Prime series disappeared, all the songs in your music library ceased to exist, wouldn’t you vote for the guy who promised to bring them all back?
Whether or not this situation is a desirable state of affairs for American politics is a separate question entirely. The fact remains that the situation exists.
Yep, he’s been excommunicated. And you’re absolutely right: it’s a message to others.