# I don't understand what voters Trump could've picked up between 2016 and 2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 4, 2020, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722 "2020-11-04T08:30:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/81 "2020-11-05T15:18:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > at least he was anti-abortion T\*\*\*p isn’t anti-abortion. He is throwing an ideological bone to the evangelicals to achieve his goal of continuing to loot the country for his personal gain. This assessment also applies to his other “policy” positions. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/82 "2020-11-05T15:25:37Z")
> [@bobsmom101](#): > > He is throwing an ideological bone to the evangelicals to achieve his goal of continuing to loot the country for his personal gain. I’m not even sure of this. I think it’s more of the fact that most business-friendly judges and legislators are also socially conservative. He’s not INTENTIONALLY throwing a bone to the evangelicals; he’s leveraging the coincidence towards his advantage. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/83 "2020-11-05T15:29:22Z")
George Floyd? Philandro Castile? Breonna Taylor? Murder: the _unlawful premeditated_ killing of one human being by another. I guess you are arguing the “unlawful” and “premeditated” portions of the definition? I don’t agree that just because the perp is wearing a uniform it makes his/her actions “lawful.” And as far as Floyd and Castile go, the officer(s) in question had plenty of time to think their actions through. The Taylor case is a bit murkier. I say Murdered. All of them. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/84 "2020-11-05T15:42:11Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I think there’s plenty of scope for an alternative, but I’m not seeing it offered. I don’t want to continue to argue over well worn ground. There are some pretty smart people on here, some of them are conservatives. Surely if there is plenty of scope for an alternative, some would be offered by now. I’m not seeing it. All I hear repeated, over and over, is that ‘surely there must be a way for progressives to appeal to the Trump voters’. We’ve seen repeatedly, and as we speak, what appeals to them. It’s not values that unite society. It’s the complete opposite. So how do we, small “l” liberals, appeal to these people? I’m out of ideas. Perhaps you have some? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/85 "2020-11-05T16:34:08Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s a much better slogan, for sure. It may be part of the problem that a lot of people who are not spokespeople for Democratic party are assumed to represent them, like BLM. Yes, that _is_ a problem. I’ve seen twitter posts used as cites, and random people on the street in the middle of a protest used as spokespeople for the whole movement. I see liberals say dumb things, here and out in the wild. Not everyone spends as much time educating themselves, most people don’t have that kind of time or fortitude to wade through all the information presented to try to get at the truth. It _is_ much easier to start from the position of knowing the truth, and then only accepting the information that supports it. I discussed this with my brother, while he was in the process of self radicalizing. He would point me to websites that would confirm his beliefs, and I would point to cites that debunked it. He would dismiss my input without bothering to read it, as it did not agree with what he already knew to be true. I said that this is the difference between investigation and research. Investigation is when you seek information to prove your beliefs to be true, and research is when you seek information to prove your beliefs to be false. It is a natural thing, most don’t have the curiosity to try to prove themselves wrong. Lawrence Krauss once said that to be a scientist is to have a firm belief, something that you have built as a foundation for everything you know and understand, and to try your best to prove it wrong. (Badly paraphrased, sorry, LK). Until you have had that moment when one of your most sacred beliefs is debunked, you cannot truly start to understand the universe. > [@DemonTree](#): > > What sort of things do your customers tell you when they try to ‘educate’ you? Almost on que… too bad you weren’t here just now… Unfortunately, I then checked out a dog, checked in two more, and took a phone call, so it’s not perfectly fresh. It’s times like that that I wish I had a voice recorder easily available. Maybe I’ll get one set up sometime. Huh, just for shits and giggles, I’ll set my camera to video, and see if it picks up audio well enough for when he comes back to pick up, see if he says anything then. Not have to try to remember. Guy came to drop off his dog, not wearing a mask. I just don’t care anymore, so many refuse to, and it’s faster to just take the dog and let them leave than to argue. Then I sanitize everything. So, he says, “Excuse my masklessness… I don’t need it.” I say, “Same thing for Sophie as last time?” “He says, did you see yesterday, not a mention of it at all, just like we said. Fauci (except not quite ‘Fauci’, some insultingly derivation of his name that I don’t know how to spell) was lying to cause panic.” I say “Same number as last time?” “He’s going to be fired, and he deserves it. Would you trust a doctor that’s been working for 40 years?” I found that to be an interesting way to change the subject. “I don’t know, my dentist is in his 70’s, been going to him almost that long. I’m terrified of the day he retires.” He then talks about how he is lucky that his dentist retired at 65, and they got an “update”. I’m pretty sure there was something else thrown in there as well, but it was too stupid for me to accurately remember. Fortunately, the lobby started getting a bit crowded with more clients wanting to pick up or drop off their dog, so he went ahead and left at that point. Told him, “She’ll be ready about 2:00 PM” But, honestly, had you not _just_ asked that question, I would not have remember the specifics of that conversation at all as it is just too stupid to devote brain cells to retaining. This guy _used_ to work for the local government, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/86 "2020-11-05T17:05:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > All I hear repeated, over and over, is that ‘surely there must be a way for progressives to appeal to the Trump voters’. And that _is_ the problem. The things that appeal to Trump voters as purely antithetical to the things that appeal to Democrats. It’s not about the economy, the economy has done great under Democratic administrations. It’s not about the deficit, the deficit has done much better with Democrats holding the purse strings. It’s not about foreign relations, Democrats are much better at that. It’s not really about guns or abortion either, as Democrats have _not_ taken anyone’s guns, and Republicans, when they have been in charge, have not done anything about abortion. The operate on hate and fear. They see the world as a negative sum game. They want to take from others so that they are not taken from themselves. They are fundamentally unfit for participating, much less leading, in the world that we find ourselves. They refuse to adapt to this world of positive sum. They cannot grok the notion that when others are better off, so are they. They cannot fathom that hurting someone else hurts themselves. They refuse to understand that pushing someone else down only lowers themselves. And since they cannot adapt, they try to bend the world into the way the think it ought to be, where the only way to survive is at the expense of others, where harming others benefits themselves. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > So how do we, small “l” liberals, appeal to these people? I’m out of ideas. Perhaps you have some? My only suggestion is, if you can’t beat them, join them. Register as a Republican, and vote in their primaries. Vote for the more moderate candidate, vote against the extremists. Take control of the party from the inside, and push the radical right wing back to the fringe. If we did that as a coordinated effort, we may be able to “fix” the Republican party, to return it to a more moderate opposition to Democrats, rather than allowing the party to reward the most extreme and rabid of its candidates. Will it work? I dunno, probably not, but it’s the only idea I have left. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/87 "2020-11-05T17:12:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In Florida, you still have many One issue Hispanic voters, and that One issue is Castro. Who is dead, sure but then there is his brother. Possibly one of the most foolish one issue votes. If you want to understand the problem that Biden had with Hispanic voters, don’t look at Florida. Let’s conceded that Cuban-Americans are a unique group and Trump was effective in targeting them with a “Biden is a socialist” message. Zapata County, Texas, lies on the U.S.-Mexican border. Trump’s border wall would run right through it. It is overwhelmingly Hispanic. I’d wager 90% of the population is bilingual. Families have members on both sides of the border, cultural ties with Mexico are strong, and the economy is strongly dependent on cross-border travel and trade. Clinton carried Zapata County by 33 points in 2016. Trump won it by 5 points this year. All along the Texas-Mexico border the story is the same. Across 28 Texas counties on or near the border, Biden won by 17 percentage points compared to Clinton’s 33 points. That’s just a jaw-dropping turnaround in four years. I’ll let the post-game analysts figure out the why, but it shows that the scale of the issue is immense. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/88 "2020-11-05T17:15:13Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > My only suggestion is, if you can’t beat them, join them. Register as a Republican, and vote in their primaries. Vote for the more moderate candidate, vote against the extremists. Take control of the party from the inside, and push the radical right wing back to the fringe. If we did that as a coordinated effort, we may be able to “fix” the Republican party, to return it to a more moderate opposition to Democrats, rather than allowing the party to reward the most extreme and rabid of its candidates. > > Will it work? I dunno, probably not, but it’s the only idea I have left. Subversive. I like your cunning. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/89 "2020-11-05T17:25:48Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > All along the Texas-Mexico border the story is the same. Across 28 Texas counties on or near the border, Biden won by 17 percentage points compared to Clinton’s 33 points. That’s just a jaw-dropping turnaround in four years. I’ll let the post-game analysts figure out the why, but it shows that the scale of the issue is immense. I’ll offer a speculative explanation. Naturalized Hispanics who came here well before Trump have established themselves in a niche segment of the economy. They are not perhaps doing as well as natural born Americans, but better than the new comers, many of whom are coming either illegally or claiming refugee status. Without sufficient upward mobility, naturalized Hispanics are feeling economic pressure from newcomers because they compete for many of the same jobs and will work for less money. So they will vote for the guy who they hate but who promises to essentially protect them from competition by closing the border. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/90 "2020-11-05T17:49:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So how do we, small “l” liberals, appeal to these people? I’m out of ideas. Perhaps you have some? Hmmm. Focus on creating jobs, steady jobs, not ‘gig economy’ crap, even if it requires protectionism. Prioritise lowering the cost of medical treatment - negotiate/regulate drug prices, transparent pricing for services, evidenced based rules for screening that if followed preclude getting sued - over implementing single payer. Treat drug addiction as a medical/social issue rather than a criminal one. Take illegal immigration seriously and find a way to reduce it that doesn’t involve kids in cages. Reform the police, but for god’s sake get a better slogan. 😉 And clamp down on riots and looting, that shit turns people to ‘strongman’ leaders faster than anything. Oh, and defend free speech more. Those are my suggestions. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > My only suggestion is, if you can’t beat them, join them. Register as a Republican, and vote in their primaries. Vote for the more moderate candidate, vote against the extremists. Take control of the party from the inside, and push the radical right wing back to the fringe. If we did that as a coordinated effort, we may be able to “fix” the Republican party, to return it to a more moderate opposition to Democrats, rather than allowing the party to reward the most extreme and rabid of its candidates. For people living in strongly Republican areas, this is a perfectly reasonable suggestion. If the actual election is a foregone conclusion, then your only chance to influence the result is voting in the primaries. (And vice-versa for Republicans living in strongly Democrat areas.) ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/91 "2020-11-05T17:50:22Z")
Trump is pushing policies that are anti-abortion. That’s all everybody cares about. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/92 "2020-11-05T18:05:10Z")
Strategic voting is definitely not unheard of … and is closely associated with no less of a Medal of Freedom winner than ol’ Rushbo (RIP … soon): [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40823366\_The\_Limbaugh\_Effect\_A\_Rush\_to\_Judging\_Cross-Party\_Raiding\_in\_the\_2008\_Democratic\_Nomination\_Contests](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40823366_The_Limbaugh_Effect_A_Rush_to_Judging_Cross-Party_Raiding_in_the_2008_Democratic_Nomination_Contests) Why not ? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/93 "2020-11-05T18:06:27Z")
I wonder whether it would have been different if the court had overturned ACA before the election. Now they will do it and nothing can be done about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/94 "2020-11-05T18:14:55Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > More and more right wing control over our media. I almost spit my coffee over my iPad on that one. We are apparently living in completely different worlds. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/95 "2020-11-05T18:17:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > All I hear repeated, over and over, is that ‘surely there must be a way for progressives to appeal to the Trump voters’. I think calling them ‘garbage people’ is a good start. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/96 "2020-11-05T18:40:57Z")
Biden hasn’t done that, nor have any of the other leaders of the Democratic party. Even Clinton’s “deplorables” only referred to the racism/xenophobia-driven Trump supporters, explicitly separating out those Trump supporters driven by economics. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/97 "2020-11-05T19:33:44Z")
Well, some evangelicals have admitted he isnt a very good one, but as long as he promises to make them in charge of every woman’s womb, they will vote for him. That is all that is important to them. They will vote for the antichrist if he tells them he will get rid of Roe. Single issue voters are stupid, and just about all of them line up behind the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/98 "2020-11-05T19:35:22Z")
Is that anything like some Republicans calling Democrats evil, unAmerican, or traitorous? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/99 "2020-11-05T19:37:22Z")
… or Communists, or Socialists, or Marxists, or godless heathens, or baby-killers … ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722/100 "2020-11-05T19:39:03Z")
Or saying that they’re coming for your suburbs, your windows, your religion, your investment portfolio, your jobs, your voting franchise (particularly rich), your guns, and that they’re all watching the Food Network to find out the best way to prepare and serve _your_ children … **After** they’re through indoctrinating those children in them that’ _schools,_ of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-what-voters-trump-couldve-picked-up-between-2016-and-2020/924722.md?page=6)