# I don't understand why diesel cars aren't more popular in the US **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811 "2012-04-24T16:26:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/41 "2013-04-30T15:17:43Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Bump to my one year old thread. > > \ > > I really think diesel would be a good option here in the States. I’m glad to see news that Mazda is bringing their diesel Mazda6 over. I’d buy another diesel in a heart beat, but never again a VW. I have a 2004 Ford F350 diesel pickup that is a good use of that fuel. Whereas a gas truck of similar size tops out around 10 - 12mpg, this monster creeps up to 18mpg if treated right on the open road. That’s a significant savings. With regards to your VW discussion, [this thread in the Pit seems relevant](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=689562). There is a lo of VW hate going on there. On the whole I agree, diesel is a good choice for a vehicle if you can match the initial investment with a fuel economy kick. If you can find that golden point where a used vehicle’s price, reliability and economy meet together you win with anything you might buy. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/42 "2013-04-30T15:26:57Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > I have a 2004 Ford F350 diesel pickup that is a good use of that fuel. Whereas a gas truck of similar size tops out around 10 - 12mpg, this monster creeps up to 18mpg if treated right on the open road. That’s a significant savings. > > With regards to your VW discussion, [this thread in the Pit seems relevant](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=689562). There is a lo of VW hate going on there. > > On the whole I agree, diesel is a good choice for a vehicle if you can match the initial investment with a fuel economy kick. If you can find that golden point where a used vehicle’s price, reliability and economy meet together you win with anything you might buy. Ignoring costs for a moment, I like that a diesel delivers MPG values while also delivering incredible power. Gas cars approaching the MPG efficiency will never come even remotely close to the exhilarating power a diesel is able to deliver. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/43 "2013-04-30T18:12:15Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I just looked up prices of 2012 Jettas near here. The gas model was $22,049 and the diesel was $26,695. With gas at $3.80 here and diesel at $4.00 with the diesel getting eleven mpg highway over the gas one, the diesel comes out three cents cheaper per mile to drive (I rounded the price difference to four thousand). > > Thus, it would take about 133,000 miles of fuel savings to recoup the $4000 higher purchase price if one pays cash for the car. If the car’s financed, it would take longer. > > I think people (like me) aren’t buying them because the premium price pretty much cancels any fuel savings. They just cost too much. Bingo. My wife and I compared the Passat TDI (diesel) and the regular SE, and we ran into the same situation- it was cheaper per mile, but the number of miles to break even was absurd, with the extra charge for the diesel. Aren’t there European diesel fuel cost advantages or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/44 "2013-05-01T15:36:29Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Bump to my one year old thread. > > I dumped the TDI Jetta two weeks ago after a year of ownership. I began having issues that the dealers could not correct (and were none to helpful to diagnose). > > At 28,000 miles, I figured it was good to dump the thing before the warranty expired. See, that’s the problem. Someone’s going to be considering a diesel and we’ll say “Oh, they’re junk. **Sparky!** got rid of his after just a year.” That’s what happened to the owners of the 1980 GM diesels, reliability problems which led to extremely short-lived cars. What sort of problems did you have? Engine? Transmission? Something about which the typical skeptic could say “See? Diesels are junk and the dealer can’t fix them.” You said upthread the diesel cost you about $2K more than a comparable gasoline model would have. Did you get that back in fuel savings over the 28,000 miles? ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/45 "2013-05-01T15:49:36Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > See, that’s the problem. Someone’s going to be considering a diesel and we’ll say “Oh, they’re junk. **Sparky!** got rid of his after just a year.” > > That’s what happened to the owners of the 1980 GM diesels, reliability problems which led to extremely short-lived cars. What sort of problems did you have? Engine? Transmission? Something about which the typical skeptic could say “See? Diesels are junk and the dealer can’t fix them.” > > You said upthread the diesel cost you about $2K more than a comparable gasoline model would have. Did you get that back in fuel savings over the 28,000 miles? I believe I posted that I would buy another diesel in a heartbeat. The diesel engine of the TDI was fantastic. The problem was with other items that had nothing to do with it being a diesel. As to cost, I looked at it as a cash flow thing. I got into the TDI at the same monthly payment as my previous car, and without any out of pocket cash. However, I was paying less for fuel per month, while having a very driver-friendly car (the turbo on that engine made it a delight to drive). So, initial cost of ownership is more compared to gas, but the two really are not equal, in that the cheaper gas vehicle will never approach the performance of the TDI. I’m ok paying for that performance while getting better mileage to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/46 "2013-05-01T16:02:46Z")
Diesel fumes are very carcinogenic moreso than than exhaust from gas, in fact, in some municipalities, it’s illegal to have diesel engines idling near school zones. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/47 "2013-05-01T16:20:06Z")
As things like this often go, it’s not so much about how much sense it makes but the economics of it. At this time there is no infrastructure to support the manufacturing of diesels. There is also the public’s perception. Diesels are a harder sell and let’s face it, car manufacturers are in it to make money. You see this in many consumer goods. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/48 "2013-05-01T16:27:16Z")
Diesels have a massive image problem. About 95% of Americans think of deisel vehicles as smelly beasts that belch clouds of black smoke everywhere they go. And there are still quite a few large trucks that still send up farts of smelly smoke every time the triver steps on the gas. The cold-weather starting problems don’t help either, of course. I’ve heard that in winter in Alaska, some trucks are left running around the clock, because trying to retart it in the arctic cold would be way too difficult. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/49 "2013-05-01T16:45:19Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Diesels have a massive image problem. About 95% of Americans think of deisel vehicles as smelly beasts that belch clouds of black smoke everywhere they go. And there are still quite a few large trucks that still send up farts of smelly smoke every time the triver steps on the gas. > > The cold-weather starting problems don’t help either, of course. I’ve heard that in winter in Alaska, some trucks are left running around the clock, because trying to retart it in the arctic cold would be way too difficult. I was concerned about winter starting at first, having worked at a Distribution Center with a fleet of diesel trucks back in the 90’s. I remember we’d get a pallet of additive in late summer, and still trucks not plugged in wouldn’t start. The TDI was fine on cold days (some mornings were around 0 F). It had a push button start, and on those days I’d have to hold the button in for 3 seconds or so before the engine starter would engage. I assume it had glow plugs warming the cylinders. Anyway, it always started right up. It also took forever to get cabin heat, but you can’t have everything. ---
**Author:** ![Remember\_me](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/82dd89/32.png) [@Remember\_me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Remember_me)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811/50 "2013-05-02T09:27:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Aren’t there European diesel fuel cost advantages or something like that? Not universally, but mostly: yes. In most European countries I have been to, diesel fuel was slightly cheaper than gas - only in the UK, diesel was more expensive than gas/petrol, there might be more. For Germany this comes from lower tax on diesel compared to gas. Diesel has a tax of 0.47 EUR/liter (= ~2.34 /gal.), whereas petrol is about 0.65 EUR/liter (= ~3.24 /gal.). And you have to add the actual price of the fuel plus VAT, of course. So, a liter of diesel fuel is usually around 0.1 EUR to 0.2 EUR cheaper than gas, that is about 0.5 /gal to 1 /gal. On cheap days, diesel is around 1.30 EUR/liter (= 6.48 /gal.) and on expensive days it is ~1.50 EUR/liter (= ~7.48 /gal.). The prices fluctuate heavily from day to day. The price advantage for diesel is countered by a considerably higher annual vehicle tax. For a 2.0 liter diesel engine the annual tax will be around 210 EUR/year, and a 2.0 liter gas engine will be around 60 EUR/year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-diesel-cars-arent-more-popular-in-the-us/619811.md?page=2)