# I don't understand why this Kindergarten teacher may lose her job.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [February 24, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148 "2014-02-24T21:04:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/21 "2014-02-27T16:22:05Z")
The School board refused to reinstate the teacher at a hearing despite overwhelming support from the community and a finding by Division of Youth and Family Services that there is nothing here. Also, both sides agree that the police report was incorrect in stating the children were found naked. They were not.
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### Author:  [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/22 "2014-02-27T16:44:34Z")
Oh, for heaven’s sake.
I don’t remember kindergarten at all, but I was 5 when I started 1st grade. I got lost more than once, I believe both times after lunch, when we were supposed to go to the A/V room to watch a film. The second time I ended up watching the wrong film, then following another class for half an hour or so to their room, and nobody noticed in either class till I fessed up.
We also had two little adjoining restrooms, one for boys and one for girls. Quite possible that they had this setup, two children were dismissed to go to each, and went in the same one instead. Or the teacher didn’t realize the girl was still messing around in the bathroom when she let the boy go, for example. Stuff happens. And handling a class full of practically toddlers during a standardized test? Ha ha ha ha. She had her hands full, I guarantee it.
As far as what the two kids were doing, non-issue in my book. The neighbor boy was my age, and I’m told we got up to some dickens at age 4-5. Apparently nobody made a big deal of it, and I didn’t remember till my mom joked about it many years later. I doubt either of us had been seeing things we weren’t supposed to…But these two WILL have issues after being harassed about it by “authorities.”
However, there may be extenuating circumstances that we are not aware of. I just can’t imagine much else, under normal probability, that would affect my opinion a great deal.
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/23 "2014-02-27T16:54:59Z")
“At least it was hetero,” said the relieved parents.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/24 "2014-02-27T23:09:54Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#):
>
> the idiots on the school board
Reported for redundancy.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/25 "2014-02-28T00:41:31Z")
More details in the newest article.
> **[Mullica refuses to reinstate kindergarten teacher](https://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/mullica-school-board-refuses-demands-of-crowd-to-reinstate-kindergarten/article_4fedfe06-9f57-11e3-afae-001a4bcf887a.html)**
>
> MULLICA TOWNSHIP — Both sides at a packed school board meeting agreed Wednesday night that the two students who told a kindergarten teacher they had been having sex in a
I don’t understand why the school board is being so obstinate about this case. The teacher even has the mayor’s support and they still want to fire her. School boards have a scary amount of power.
> [@](#):
>
> The charges specify that about 1 p.m. Mascio took a group of eight students who had finished a benchmark assessment test in the library back to her room to watch a movie, “Daniel Tiger’s Neighborhood.” The group was seated on a carpet watching the film, when an aide brought another six children into the room, the complaint said.
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> Mascio was seated with them on a carpeted area in front of her desk, but failed to supervise them properly, according to the document.
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> It alleges that a boy and girl, at separate times, left the carpeted area and went to the back of the classroom where they entered the single bathroom and remained together. “While in the bathroom, Student A and Student B admit that they removed their clothes and touched each others ‘private parts,’“ according to the complaint.
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> The tenure complaint further states: “Mascio did not realize two of her kindergarten students were missing for at least approximately (5) five minutes.”
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/26 "2014-02-28T04:32:21Z")
This is a perfect example of why teachers’ unions are necessary. School boards don’t hesitate to throw a teacher under the bus if there’s the slightest political pressure, even if it’s completely imagined (as it seems to be in this case). A union is the teacher’s only defense.
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/27 "2014-02-28T20:14:00Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#):
>
> Huh. When I was a teacher I was occasionally called on the carpet because I wouldn’t let multiple kids go to the bathroom at the same time. Not for prurient reasons, but because I couldn’t teach with everybody out of the room. I’d tell them to wait if it wasn’t “an emergency”.
>
> I was told not letting them go exactly when they wanted was inhumane or something. Then I’d show the principal the line at the john if I just let everybody go and return to doing things my way.
In first grade, I had a teacher who didn’t let me go to the bathroom with multiple requests. It was near the end of the day. I ended up crapping my pants with about five minutes to go before the bell. It was pretty traumatic at the time.
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### Author:  [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/28 "2014-02-28T20:36:34Z")
> [@Zebra](#):
>
> In first grade, I had a teacher who didn’t let me go to the bathroom with multiple requests. It was near the end of the day. I ended up crapping my pants with about five minutes to go before the bell. It was pretty traumatic at the time.
If a kid said they really couldn’t wait or made multiple requests I let them go. All I’m saying is that teachers should have some discretion.
Now I think of it, a lot of employees should have more discretion. I’m so fed up with talking to customer service who insist on reciting a script to me. Why can’t we just talk like humans?
I suppose the answer is that we demand more and more perfection in many transactions, and businesses /supervisors are less willing to allow workers to think for themselves. _sigh_ I’ve read how Southwest Airlines allows their people to override any company policy (not FAA rules or laws) in order to solve a problem. Seems so quaint nowadays.
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### Author:  [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/29 "2014-02-28T21:21:12Z")
Read between the lines. They have it in for this teacher and this gives them an excuse.
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### Author:  [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/30 "2014-02-28T23:48:09Z")
According to the linked article, the boy had exhibited similar behavior the previous schoolyear, but the teacher was not aware of it.
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### Author:  [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/31 "2014-03-02T23:40:09Z")
There’s a lot of nutcases in public service.
Only the front line can get disciplined like this.
basically, IMO, the person saying the teacher in trouble is a complete fruit loop, someone who is so off the planet they can barely be trusted with a broom. But the public service is FULL of these people…they don’t last in private enterprise… It can be a completely selfish motivation…
“I didn’t have any serious cases , so this gives me a case to tick off”.
“I can use this to justify putting on a staff member, and then I have 10, and so I hit the new pay level !”
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/32 "2014-06-25T15:05:00Z")
**Story update.**
The best possible outcome. Reinstated with back pay. 😃
I do wonder how hostile her job environment will be in the future. But at least shes been reinstated.
> **[Kindergarten teacher suspended after reporting kids ‘having sex’ in bathroom...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2014/06/24/kindergarten-teacher-suspended-after-reporting-kids-having-sex-in-bathroom-can-keep-her-job/)**
>
> A kindergarten teacher who was suspended after finding two of her students “having sex” in a classroom bathroom will not lose her job, a state investigation concluded nearly nine months…
> **[Mullica kindergarten teacher suspended in sexual play case can keep job](https://pressofatlanticcity.com/education/mullica-kindergarten-teacher-suspended-in-sexual-play-case-can-keep/article_a9e8191c-fb07-11e3-8415-0019bb2963f4.html)**
>
> MULLICA TOWNSHIP — The kindergarten teacher up on tenure charges after reporting that two 5-year-olds emerged from a classroom bathroom and said they had engaged in sex play, will not
> [@](#):
>
> A kindergarten teacher who was suspended after finding two of her students “having sex” in a classroom bathroom will not lose her job, a state investigation concluded nearly nine months later.
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> Kelly Mascio, a 16-year veteran teacher of Mullica Township in New Jersey, will not only be allowed to keep her job but has been awarded nearly four months of back pay since she was removed from the classroom.
> [@](#):
>
> Arbitrator Daniel F. Brent, appointed by the state Department of Education, refused to sustain the tenure charges brought by Superintendent Brenda Harring-Marro and the Board of Education against the 16-year veteran teacher Kelly Mascio, of Mullica Township.
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> He did find, however, that she was culpable for failure to supervise students and issued a 10-day suspension as punishment.
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/33 "2014-06-25T17:07:15Z")
If the investigation took nine months, does that mean the teacher was off work for nine months? But only got four months back pay?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/34 "2014-06-25T17:09:23Z")
I think the Arbitrator made a fair decision. Ten day suspension and loss of pay for those days. The rest of her pay and full benefits gets reinstated. The Mayor is right. A lot of money was wasted over a very simple disciplinary matter.
> [@](#):
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> Mayor Jim Brown had encouraged reinstatement of the teacher in February.
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> “It should have been that way from the beginning. She could have gotten a week’s suspension and this thing would have been over,” Brown said. “It would have saved a lot of money. Most of the people in the township will be thrilled with this decision.”
> [@](#):
>
> “We do believe, as we have all along, that the administration’s handling of this case was appallingly egregious, and it is unfortunate that the taxpayers of Mullica Township will have to pay hefty legal fees due to the complete mishandling of this situation,” said Mullica Township Education Association President Barbara Rheault.
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### Author:  [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/35 "2014-06-26T00:17:45Z")
That is not the best _POSSIBLE_ outcome.
The superintendent knowingly or recklessly caused mental anguish to the teacher for no reason at all. That is the same as assault and the same level of injury, eg from physical assault,could result in 5 years jail.
The arbitrator could have said " And in saying that, I admit that I let it go on for 5 months, because I get paid more when there is a long running case ."
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/36 "2014-06-26T01:35:22Z")
I’m not sure about that either. Here’s the [Arbitrator’s decision](http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/pressofatlanticcity.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/38/33887438-fb2a-11e3-a7a3-0019bb2963f4/53a8b1c7420c4.pdf.pdf) (pdf) He says she should be reinstated to her former position with uninterrupted seniority and service credit. Full back pay minus the 10 days suspension. It sounds like (to me) that she’s not supposed to lose any pay except those 10 days.
Bad news, schools out right now. She can’t go back to work until mid August. At least she’s got that back pay coming.
I agree nine months to investigate seems absurd. I understand they wanted to check phone records to see if she was distracted during class. Interview people. But 9 months? I can’t imagine what took so long.
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> If the investigation took nine months, does that mean the teacher was off work for nine months? But only got four months back pay?
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### Author:  [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-understand-why-this-kindergarten-teacher-may-lose-her-job/682148/37 "2014-06-26T02:19:51Z")
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> If the investigation took nine months, does that mean the teacher was off work for nine months? But only got four months back pay?
According to [this article](http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/education/mullica-kindergarten-teacher-suspended-in-sexual-play-case-can-keep/article_a9e8191c-fb07-11e3-8415-0019bb2963f4.html), “Mascio was suspended with pay immediately after the incident by Harring-Marro, and has been on unpaid suspension since late February, when the school board voted to certify tenure charges.”
So, she was suspended with pay on September 30 and received pay until the February 27 board meeting. That means she was without pay for March, April, May, and June – 4 months.
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