# I don't vote...get over it! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 5, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665 "2004-10-05T16:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/21 "2004-10-05T19:13:43Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > Sure it does. The marginal vote elects the guy. Everything after is just gravy. But if you removed that one vote, the result would still be the same so that vote didn’t really make a difference. Shoot, the last election, one of the closest in history, we could have removed entire BUSH states and the result would have been the same. You think one vote in one state makes a difference? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/22 "2004-10-05T19:15:38Z")
> [@melondeca](#): > > You are correct: this is a free country and I am exercising my right NOT to vote. Just like you exercised your right to call me an oblivious person. So, you want the rights, just not the responsibility that goes with them. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/23 "2004-10-05T19:16:13Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > **Kyla** > > \*But if you don’t vote, you have no voice in how the country works. \* > You thinking you have a voice in how the country works is an illusion. You know, you’ve converted me. Voting is stupid. Let’s have a totalitarian government! I mean, having a voice in government, not having a voice in government, there’s no difference! I’m gonna vote for the fascists next… Oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/24 "2004-10-05T19:29:17Z")
Try this **Kyla**. From now until the day you die, every day after the election, check the results in the paper. Imagine you changed your vote on every single issue. See if one time, on one issue between now and the day you die, your vote would have made a difference. That’s all I’m saying. Your vote is not a voice. No one in power cares that you showed up on election day. It’s nothing. It’s a fart in the wind, as they say. If you really want a voice there are things you can do: start a foundation, start a lobbying group, assassinate someone. But pulling the lever is pretty much the LEAST you can do. Oh, might I add that your ability to grasp nuance is astounding. It’s either we all vote, or we’re for a totalitarian regime. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/25 "2004-10-05T19:33:42Z")
In essence, yes, that is what you are doing. You are giving the government the right to choose how you will live your life, what rights you do and do not have. Sounds pretty totalitarian to me. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/26 "2004-10-05T19:46:20Z")
> [@melondeca](#): > > Thank you. That made my day. > > (No sarcasm intended) I have to ask, and I seriously don’t intend offense, since you haven’t taken any by similar comments in this thread. Why have you paid for a subscription to a message board that has dedicated itself to the eradication of ignorance when you’re so eager to embrace it and flaunt it? ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/27 "2004-10-05T19:50:19Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Try this **Kyla**. > > From now until the day you die, every day after the election, check the results in the paper. Imagine you changed your vote on every single issue. See if one time, on one issue between now and the day you die, your vote would have made a difference. While one can’t argue that one vote really makes a difference (in the scheme of things) we know that collectively they do. It’s okay for one person, or a handful of people, to say “my vote doesn’t matter” and they’d be right. When 1 million people in a state all stay home and say the same thing, there is a collective impact. I’m sure that’s why people react strongly to the argument that “your vote doesn’t mean a thing.” You could make that same argument about giving $20 to cancer research. $20 buys what, three test tubes? That won’t cure cancer. But if many people donate $20, you’ve got something. More importantly I want to address the idea that votes only determine who wins the race, end of story. Voting is one way to express my opinion. I believe it matter whether an issue or a candidate wins by a landslide or a thin margin. I will cast my vote even if it’s on the losing side of a referendum, or for a candidate with no chance of victory. That stuff does get noticed, and it can influence policy and communication and future candidates and all sorts of stuff. If not on a national level, certainly at more local levels. On election day, there is only one way I can send that message–by casting my one measly vote. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/28 "2004-10-05T19:52:40Z")
Thanks, **CrankyAsAnOldMan** , you’ve made my argument for me; and much more eloquently than I would have, too. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/29 "2004-10-05T19:55:39Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > [snip] Pick an issue, _any issue_ you feel strongly about. Even an issue like taxes or space-based lasers. Liquor laws. Any issue you like. > > Spend an hour – just one hour! – researching the issue. [snip] **Jurph** , your whole post is probably the most well-reseasoned argument to bring to bear on non-voters. You are my new hero, and I’m using this argument from now on. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/30 "2004-10-05T20:03:04Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > In essence, yes, that is what you are doing. You are giving the government the right to choose how you will live your life, what rights you do and do not have. Sounds pretty totalitarian to me. Well, I’m on your side of this argument in general (I think voting is important). However, I don’t think staying home on election day is the same as handing your rights over to the government. If anything, you’re leaving those rights in the hands of your fellow citizens who _do_ vote. Maybe these non-voters people have a core level of confidence in the Constitution. Perhaps they believe that the rights they most care about and value really aren’t at risk if they stay home, that their lives aren’t changed much if Candidate A wins instead of Candidate B. You can argue about whether or not that confidence is misplaced–lord knows we’ve burned plenty of bandwidth discussing the 2nd amendment and the Patriot Act–but that’s another thread. I am all about voting, but I think the metaphor of totalitarianism is not a good fit. ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/31 "2004-10-05T20:11:34Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Try this: Hey, how 'bout YOU try THIS: (I’ll use the converse of **Jurph’s** arguement, and add a profit motive!) I’ll pay you $10 on election day if you’ll let me drive you to a polling place, then let me put a blindfold on you, point your finger at a lever and push it. You’ve lost very little time, gained a ten-spot, and I’m that much surer the guy I want will get elected. Hey, if you won’t vote once, how 'bout helping ME vote TWICE! Everybody wins! [sub](at least everybody I’m interested in wins)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/32 "2004-10-05T20:14:24Z")
> [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](#): > > More importantly I want to address the idea that votes only determine who wins the race, end of story. Voting is one way to express my opinion. I believe it matter whether an issue or a candidate wins by a landslide or a thin margin. I will cast my vote even if it’s on the losing side of a referendum, or for a candidate with no chance of victory. That stuff does get noticed, and it can influence policy and communication and future candidates and all sorts of stuff. If not on a national level, certainly at more local levels. On election day, there is only one way I can send that message–by casting my one measly vote. I agree with this assessment, and it is why, in the past 2 and current presidential elections, I vote 3rd party. NY is going to go democrat; I really want to see George Bush out of office, but I’m not sold on putting Kerry in office. My way of protest is to be in the marginal number of voters showing no confidence in either major party candidate. It’s symbolic. State and local politicians have much more to gain by listening to their constituents. Your vote does mean something at these levels, even the no confidence vote. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/33 "2004-10-05T20:19:16Z")
> [@Tygr](#): > > I’ll pay you $10 on election day if you’ll let me drive you to a polling place, then let me put a blindfold on you, point your finger at a lever and push it. You’ve lost very little time, gained a ten-spot, and I’m that much surer the guy I want will get elected. Just to let you know (and I realize you weren’t being serious), but paying someone to vote for the candidate of your choice is a federal offense (a felony, I believe). ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/34 "2004-10-05T20:56:47Z")
If you don’t care about the [environment](http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1120-01.htm), [women’s rights](http://www.truthaboutgeorge.com/women/), the [economy](http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/economy.htm), [education](http://www.prospect.org/print/V15/2/schrag-p.html), [civil rights](http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0434/indiana.php), [health care](http://www.fightforthefuture.org/bushrecord/bush_healthcare.cfm) (especially [children’s health](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1437&e=1&u=/nm/20040929/hl_nm/campaign_pediatricians_dc&sid=95864961)), and a [thousand other things](http://www.thousandreasons.org/), not to mention all the [people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq_casualties) [his](http://www.antiwar.com/eland/?articleid=3709) [bogus](http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0625-08.htm) [war](http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm) [has](http://www.iraqbodycount.net/) [killed](http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/) [and](http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/) [wounded](http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm) [in](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04262/381101.stm) [Iraq](http://civilians.info/iraq/), then don’t vote. Your children and grandchildren won’t thank you. You think you’re safer with Bush? You’re woefully uninformed. > [@](#): > > [Justice Dept. Audit Finds FBI Still Has Large Backlog of Untranslated Intercepts](http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBJEYBWMZD.html) > > WASHINGTON (AP) - The FBI has a backlog of hundreds of thousands of hours of untranslated audio recordings from terrorism and espionage investigations, despite large increases in money and personnel for translations since the 2001 terror attacks, a Justice Department audit released Monday said. > In addition, the audit by Glenn A. Fine, the agency’s inspector general, found that more than one-third of al-Qaida intercepts authorized by a secret federal court were not reviewed within 12 hours of collection as required by FBI Director Robert Mueller. ====================== > [@](#): > > 50 Former U.S. Diplomats, Retired Military Say Bush Should Not Be Trusted; Bush Has Made America More Vulnerable To Terrorists > [http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=37086](http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=37086) > > Today 50 former high- level diplomats, generals and admirals declared President Bush has made America less safe and called for his ouster. > > Members of the group are available for interview, including in Miami, where several are giving public presentations this week in the run up to the Presidential Debate on Thursday. Several are fluent in Spanish. > > The group released a public statement that says President Bush has squandered American lives and should not be trusted. > > “The claim that we are safer is the biggest lie of this campaign season,” states the group. “Now we are bogged down there in a quagmire with no solution in sight.” > > Additional excerpts: > > “The plain fact is that George W. Bush and his team have succeeded in making our country and our people less safe, and more vulnerable to new terrorist attacks, by an unnecessary war against a threat that did not exist.” > > “We have lost the hard-won respect and admiration that America enjoyed … Some of these losses are irrecoverable and others will take decades to repair, a process we must begin immediately by electing a new administration.” > > The group also accuses the President of gross negligence, stating, “Prior to 9/11 Mr. Bush and his team ignored repeated warnings about the danger of terrorist attacks.” > > “The American people must surely not reelect someone presenting himself as a strong and resolute war leader who is responsible for such a sorry record of judgment and performance.” > > “Leadership in the wrong directions is not the leadership we need or want. We can have no trust in such leadership for the next four years. It is definitely time for a change.” > > The retired officials who signed the statement include five general and admirals. These include Retired Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President Reagan and Retired Air Force Gen. Merrill A. (Tony) McPeak. McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff under George H.W. Bush, was Oregon chairman for the 1996 Dole/Kemp campaign and in 2000 was a backer of George W. Bush. > > Their full statement is available at: [http://www.diplomatsforchange.com/press/kits.shtml](http://www.diplomatsforchange.com/press/kits.shtml) ====================== > [@](#): > > FBI, CIA, FAA, Customs, and the Defense Intelligence Agency ex-employees hold a press conference > [http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0436/mondo3.php](http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0436/mondo3.php) > > A group of 25 former federal employees directly involved in the government’s counterintelligence and counterterrorism programs held a press conference here this morning to lambaste both the 9-11 Commission and the Bush administration for failing to hold government officials accountable for failures leading up to 9-11. > > The ex-employees, from the FBI, CIA, FAA, Customs, and the Defense Intelligence Agency, had firsthand knowledge of their agencies’ activities in counterintelligence and counterterrorism. > > The ex-employees, from the FBI, CIA, FAA, Customs, and the Defense Intelligence Agency, had firsthand knowledge of their agencies’ activities in counterintelligence and counterterrorism. > … > > The 25 signed a letter to Congress—organized by Sibel Edmonds, the former FBI whistleblower who is blocked from telling what she knows by a Justice Department gag order—citing “intentional actions or inaction by individuals responsible for our national security, actions or inaction dictated by motives other than the security of the people of the United States.” ====================== > [@](#): > > [http://amconmag.com/2004\_08\_02/article.html](http://amconmag.com/2004_08_02/article.html) (this is a conservative site!) > How to Lose the War on Terror (fascinating interview) > > A CIA bin Laden expert’s lament > > One of the striking things about the Iraq War is the extent to which American foreign-affairs professionals—intelligence analysts, diplomats, and high-ranking military officers—recognize it is a tragically misguided venture. Among the most recent to speak out is the CIA officer formerly charged with analyzing Osama bin Laden. Known only as “Anonymous,” he is the author of the new book Imperial Hubris —a scathing look at the way the United States has conducted the War on Terror thus far. > > … > TAC: You suggest that al-Qaeda would be delighted to have George Bush stay in the White House because nothing could be better for their international objectives. How do you see this playing out in terms of—this is totally hypothetical—a potential terrorist incident, somewhat like the bombing in Spain? > > ANON: I said that al-Qaeda itself has said that it could not wish for a better government than the one that is now governing the U.S. because, on the policies of issue to Muslims, al-Qaeda believes this government is wrong on every one and thus allows their insurgency to grow larger to incite other groups to attack Americans. > … > > TAC: Do you think we could have pretty much gotten rid of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan at the end of 2001? > > ANON: I think if we had been prepared to act on the day of the attack or the next couple of days, we would have dealt them a very serious blow. Bin Laden had declared war on us in 1996, but the military had absolutely no response ready. When they did respond, they spent a month destroying 30-year-old Soviet junk. From Sept. 11 until Oct. 7, al-Qaeda and the Taliban dispersed. And then when we did get there, we used surrogates rather than our own soldiers. > … ====================== > [@](#): > > Al Qaida ‘Duped Allies into Waging War’ > [http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3482358](http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3482358) > > One of al Qaida’s aims in its September 11 attacks on the US three years ago was to draw the west into military conflict on Arab soil, Prime Minister Tony Blair’s former envoy to Iraq acknowledged today. > > Sir Jeremy Greenstock’s comments appeared to give some credence to the argument of critics of the Iraq War that the US and UK played into al Qaida’s hands by launching last year’s invasion. > > Opponents of the war warned that it would act as a recruiting sergeant for terror chief Osama bin Laden, by appearing to confirm his claims that the West was engaged in a war on Islam, as well as providing a new field of battle for his militants. > > Sir Jeremy today said the allies had “suffered the consequences” in Iraq of al Qaida’s determination to exploit the opportunities presented by a war on Arab soil. > > He said that the West could not defeat bin Laden’s terror network by military means alone, but must adopt policies to reduce resentment in the Muslim world. > > If the allies failed to help Iraq put an end to its current instability, they would be left “worse off than when we started”, he warned. > … ====================== > [@](#): > > Al Qaeda Seen as Wider Threat > [http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-qaeda26sep26,1,2548238,print.story?coll=la-home-headlines](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-qaeda26sep26,1,2548238,print.story?coll=la-home-headlines) > > The network has evolved into a looser, ideological movement that may no longer report to Bin Laden. Critics say the White House focus is misdirected. > > Authorities have made little progress worldwide in defeating Islamic extremists affiliated with Al Qaeda despite thwarting attacks and arresting high-profile figures, according to interviews with intelligence and law enforcement officials and outside experts. > > On the contrary, officials warn that the Bush administration’s upbeat assessment of its successes is overly optimistic and masks its strategic failure to understand and combat Al Qaeda’s evolution. > > Even before the Sept. 11 attacks, Al Qaeda was a loosely organized network, but core leaders exercised considerable control over its operations. Since the loss of its base in Afghanistan and many of those leaders, the organization has dispersed its operatives and reemerged as a lethal ideological movement. > > Osama bin Laden may now serve more as an inspirational figure than a CEO, and the war in Iraq is helping focus militants’ anger, according to dozens of interviews in recent weeks on several continents. European and moderate Islamic countries have become targets. And instead of undergoing lengthy training at camps in Afghanistan, recruits have been quickly indoctrinated at home and deployed on attacks. > > The United States remains a target, but counter-terrorism officials and experts are alarmed by Al Qaeda’s switch from spectacular attacks that require years of planning to smaller, more numerous strikes on softer targets that can be carried out swiftly with little money or outside help. Here are more: [White House Wants to Cut FAA Budget](http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=White+House+Wants+to+Cut+FAA+Budget&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&toggle=1&u=news.yahoo.com/news%3Ftmpl%3Dstory%26u%3D/ap/20040916/ap_on_go_pr_wh/faa_budget&w=white+house+wants+cut+faa+budget&d=DD44B9A082&icp=1&.intl=us) [Out of the Brig](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6012286/site/newsweek) [CIA ‘lacks resources’ for terror fight](http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=11211) [Greenpeace protests plutonium consignment destined for France](http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040916214250.dap3ezf1.html) [President of Pakistan Musharraf: Iraq war a mistake](http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4EC71609-18BA-4779-B0EC-FDC29F036684.htm) I have dozens of others, but go ahead and don’t vote to make your statement. I would only urge you to rent and watch **Fahrenheit 9/11** , and/or spend a little bit of time at these sites watching a few short flash animations. It doesn’t take much time, and most of them are quite interesting. [Take Back the Media](http://www.tbtmradio.com/geeklog/public_html/search.php?query=flash+symbolman&keyType=all&datestart=&dateend=&topic=0&type=all&author=0&mode=search) (may have to turn your speakers down, the music ranges from great to horrific) A few favorites, but I like them all: Army of One (music by the Cranberries), Murder By Numbers (music by Sting),[Baghdad Snapshot](http://www.tbtmradio.com/geeklog/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20040606202455535) Action (music by Louie Armstrong), [911: An American Requiem](http://www.tbtmradio.com/geeklog/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20040606205339801) There are more here: [http://www.ericblumrich.com/animation.html](http://www.ericblumrich.com/animation.html) ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/35 "2004-10-05T21:01:59Z")
Seen on the liner notes of a Steve Earle album “If you don’t vote… Don’t Bitch.” Seems pretty straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/36 "2004-10-05T21:02:28Z")
Could we get you to at least register to vote, and see if you change your mind in the next 28 days? ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/37 "2004-10-05T21:06:37Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I agree with this assessment, and it is why, in the past 2 and current presidential elections, I vote 3rd party. NY is going to go democrat; I really want to see George Bush out of office, but I’m not sold on putting Kerry in office. My way of protest is to be in the marginal number of voters showing no confidence in either major party candidate. It’s symbolic. Oddly, though I agree with you in principle (as does my boyfriend, who will vote for the Libertarian guy if he votes at all) I’m voting for Kerry not because I’m all that fond of him, but because he’s the one who has anything like an actual chance at beating Bush, and I consider Bush so dangerous that we’ve GOT to get him out of there. It’s not like Louisiana is going to go Democratic, unless something really strange happens, but I’m voting anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/38 "2004-10-05T21:10:37Z")
A vote’s a vote – it’s not what your vote does, it’s what large numbers of like-minded people can do. The whole point of a democracy is that your vote, while vanishingly small, is **not** meaningless. The difference between one-millionth of the population and zero is small, but finite. Add up one million people not voting, and you still have zero votes. Add up half of them deciding to give a fuck on election day, and suddenly you’ve got enough votes – if distributed serendipitously – to turn the tide in Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, and Colorado in the 2000 election. Another refutation of your assertion that it does “nothing” – who has more say in whether an Iraqi village gets bombed by American warplanes: the inhabitants of that village, or your average American citizen? I’ll give you a hint: he probably doesn’t speak Arabic, and when you say “football” he’s thinking “brown and pointy.” It’s you. America’s influence in the world is wide-reaching; our economic and military policies can have catastrophic effects on thousands or millions of lives, and yet only about 250 million people in the world have any say whatsoever in how that comes about. **You’re one of them**. Six billion people in the world, and massive changes that affect all of them are being brought about by the action – **or inaction** – of 2% of them. If you sit there and a President gets elected who decides to ignore Darfur in Sudan, **you are complicit in their murder**. How’s that grab you for “no effect”? I agree with you that the difference between the two major parties is vanishingly small. But “no difference” is a lazy, selfish, apathetic lie. If you think that there’s literally no difference, and that pisses you off, then you ought to consider a 3rd party candidate. If every non-voter decided “I’ve had enough of this Left vs. Right shit” and voted for a third-party candidate, American politics would never be the same. As for **Tygr** ’s suggestion, yeah, it’s a crime, but I have several apathetic friends who ask me “hey, I know you’re big into politics. Who should I vote for?” That’s one more way you could cast your vote. Find someone whose views you respect and vote as they intend to vote. It doesn’t take a lot of time. It doesn’t take a lot of effort. Take a little responsibility for yourself, for your country, for your planet. Get your shit together and vote. ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/39 "2004-10-05T21:12:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Just to let you know (and I realize you weren’t being serious), but paying someone to vote for the candidate of your choice is a federal offense (a felony, I believe). Right! But I’ll ASK **Trunk** to vote for the candidate who’ll remove such a silly, useless and out-dated law from the register. And since I appreciate his civic-mindedness, I’ll buy him a case of beer. (Hey, it works for politicians, it should work for me - I’ll just call myself a personal lobbyist!) Look, no-one’s addressed this in this thread so far, but I think there’s an aspect of the OP’s indifference that is really offensive. Ask the expats, the exiles, the defectors… anyone who’s fought like hell to get to this country and finally experience real freedom. Ask if they ever miss the opportunity to exercise their most fundamental, civic, democratic responsibility. For most, it is the one freedom _that they NEVER take for granted_. Therein lies the root of much of our discontent with the attitudes of civic laziness in the OP: the fact that so many have given up so much to have this freedom, yet so many of us here take it for granted, all the way to the point of voluntarily giving it up! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665/40 "2004-10-05T21:15:12Z")
Why I vote: [March 7, 1965](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1965)) I don’t have the luxury of arguing what difference one vote makes. It’s the difference that one person makes. A friend of mine was beaten, nearly to death, so that I could vote. Voting is a right, hard won. I refuse to squander mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-vote-get-over-it/267665.md?page=3)