That HAS got to be weird. Where do you live?
Anyway, again, I’m not lazy at all. I don’t even watch TV, so I don’t know how much of a “couch potato” I am. I get up off my ass all the time. Even if I hardly ever sat down and went 20 places a day, I still wouldn’t go vote…I just don’t care to vote is all. It doesn’t mean I’m lazy or anything. : P (however, I can be lazy if the mood strikes me. I’m certainly guilty of that)
It may be unlikely that disability will be done away with, but you’re still benefiting from a government program. It behooves you to take interest in the government that helps you in that way. If you’re really that indifferent, you can always sign your disability payment over to charity (or to me for that matter).
And anyway, you seem to think voting is only about president. Your vote has much more leverage for Congress and state legislature, both of which can affect you very directly. Whether you realize it or not. And besides, there are people who probably serve you (civil servants, nurses, teachers, firefighters, etc.) who are very much affected by local and state government. Look at what Schwarzenegger is trying to do in California. Look at how cronyism in FEMA left the whole agency demoralized and ineffective when Katrina struck. You’re happy as long as you get your monthly check, but don’t you care about others who don’t because of various policies of which you’re just happy to be ignorant. Your electoral apathy is just another side of arrogance and self-centeredness. I know you don’t intend to be like that, but it’s true.
Besides, not voting is a form of voting. By not voting, you’re effectively casting a vote for the person you wouldn’t have voted for.
Hm… do what you will. But no bitching about gas prices.
Why bother voting though when you have jackasses like Bush who just rig the system anyway.
Whoops, got political on you. Sorry :x
I think making the argument about whether one should vote based on the national election for President is an upside-down way of looking at things.
As other posters have said, it’s on the local level that one’s vote is more likely to be heard, and it’s on the local level that the actions of politicians are most likely to affect you. Do you care about zoning laws? You may not be aware of them, but they are more likely to affect you than direct actions of the presidency.
More to the point, however, I think that choosing not to vote is… selfish, as others have said. It’s also the way that, in the US, certain groups can control small elections, and polarize large ones. If a large segment of the population isn’t voting, people won’t look to issues that appeal to that demographic. Or, contrariwise, small groups motivated by niche issues can control elections all out of proportion to their numbers when larger groups of potential voters don’t exercise their franchise.
As for the whole “vote or you can’t complain” thing. I’ve got mixed feelings on this one. Yes, it’s silly to claim that filling out a ballot suddenly makes one more worthy of indulging in kvetching. I think, however, that one’s complaints would bear more weight when the person can say, no matter whether they voted for or against the person or party being discussed, that they took part in the political process. If you will, it’s a moral qualification, not an objective one. It’s certainly not absolute, but I think if you care enough to kvetch you should be able to care enough to vote.
The great thing about America is you can do whatever the hell you want (for the most part) and not have to justify it. You don’t have to vote, and you don’t have to let your friend make you feel bad about it. And as Peter said, you can still gripe about the state of affairs to your hearts content either way. That’s your right. You can gripe about anything you want. You can drive down the street in a truck best suited for large scale ore moving duties getting 3 miles per gallon while smoking a cigar, wearing a fur coat, and cleaning your uzi. You don’t have to explain any of this to *anyone. And that’s why America is so nifty.
P.S. I assure you I am not being sarcastic.
That being said, I would suggest you learn about the issues and vote for you own good, but a lot of people would suggest I not clean my uzi whilst driving. Who’s to say?
How does one argue with a person so apathetic about the world around him? If indeed you care so little to ensure even your own wellbeing, how can I convince you to be concerned for mine?
As detestable and ignorant as I find it, I won’t waste my breath trying to persuade those who are disenfranchised by their own apathy.
The more voters there are, the harder it is to successfully rig the system, or at least it would be harder if the presidency were decided by popular vote (not saying it’s impossible, obviously, since it was managed.)
Again, I don’t see how not voting is = to being apathetic about the whole world around me…or showing that I don’t care about my own wellbeing, for that matter…
I just don’t care to vote. That doesn’t mean I don’t care about the world around me or my own wellness, etc.
I don’t think that the two are directed related to each other. They MAY have connections and yes, they may make minor changes in the way I live or how the world treats me, but I don’t see how the two are like cause and effect.
I can still care about a great many issues and also my own wellbeing and still not wish to vote for president.
I know I asked for opinions, but saying things like that make me sound like I don’t care about anything in this universe, which isn’t true.
Since we have a form of government that is predicated on the People maintaining some bare level of acquaintence with current events and periodically making decisions about who should lead the country, I have very little regard for the view that it is okay not to vote and it is okay not to care. I consider it both an insult and a threat to our form of government.
On a more personal level, the idea that some people may be excused from their civic duties has nothing but negative connotations for me. The words that immediately rise to mind are unpatriotic, lazy, self-absorbed, not doing their part, and the like. In this particular case, I also fume at the idea that I, and many other taxpayers, are contributing perfectly good tax money to compensate an individual for whom very little may be reasonably asked by the country and its people (given the cirucmstances of the person in question), other than to exert a little effort to be a civic-minded person. The idea that a person is unwilling to make any effort in that regard is revolting to me.
It is not terribly difficult to pick up a newspaper once in a while to learn about, for example, the young men and women dying in Iraq, and the fact that so long as one particular party remains in power, teenaged Americans will continue shedding their blood for a mistake of a war. Fine, someone might not care about budget deficits or campaign finance reform, but the idea that Americans dying overseas does not compel one to take a stance either way on that matter is simply shocking to me.
Now, I am someone who works in the general field of politics, so it is an important matter for me. I also strongly believe that each person is under a moral obligation to contribute to society by being active – at least to a minimal degree – in the direction the country is taking. My gut reaction is that someone who seeks to exclude themselves from those duties of being part of the society should also have the decency to exclude themselves from the benefits of society, and excuse themselves to living a rugged individualist lifestyle somewhere out in the woods or something.
Harsh words, I know, but they are not directed as a personal attack. It is indeed my opinion of the issue raised by the OP.
Bullshit. You’ve got the easiest, most convenient, and most effective way possible to change the direction of the country for the better and you choose not to exercise it? You obviously don’t give a shit about it or anyone in it.
–Cliffy
Yes. Perfectly within your rights to bitch. I know tht OP said that he doesn’t complain, so I’ll just address this to anyone feeling this way:
And it’s perfectly within my right to ignore anything you have to say about the government, how it’s run or what you think of it. After all, you’ve already decided that you don’t care enough to know what it is you’re talking about, or to bother to take a few minutes each day to read, or listen about your elected officials or their actions, so why would I give a flying rat’s ass what you have to say or what you think?
Imagine someone that knows nothing about what you do in your job, walking into your office and bitching about how you do it? They’d get a big fuck-off, right? Same one I give to people that moan about government and don’t take the minimal effort it takes to understand the issues, or the few minutes once or twice a year to drag their asses away from “Everybody Loves Raymond” reruns to fucking go vote.
Don’t fucking start me on this. You want to bitch, at least be part of the process. Otherwise, stay on your couch and shut the fuck up.
No it’s not. It’s not even close.
Why? Your vote doesn’t make a difference. Whereas eating and exercising have a direct influence on your health.
And I don’t mean it doesn’t make a difference because either way you’re just electing another member of the Corporatocracy that really runs this country (which I do believe anyway).
It doesn’t make a difference because if I, Trunk, me, switched my vote on every single question on the ballot, the results would have been the same. That goes for uglybeech, Larry Borgia and all the others who are so convinced about the righteousness of their vote.
Shit. . .most elections we could have 10 states change their entire electorate and the same guy would still get elected.
Boy you guys are full of yourselves.
If someone engages you with an interesting, well-thought out political point, whether they voted or not has no bearing on it. There are lots of idiots who vote who should be ignored much more readily than an intelligent person who didn’t vote.
You’re being completely retarded to use “participation in the voting process” as a stand-in for “thoughtful political view”. One has very little bearing on the other.
I read the Times every day, the Washington Post most days, try to pay attention to what’s being discussed. I guarantee you I’m better informed about politics then 90% of the people who vote.
I just don’t do it because it doens’t make a difference. It’s your loss if you’re going to be shallow about it.
If not apathy, what is it that compels you not to engage in the simplest means of affecting change in the town/state/country/world you live in?
Would you say that a man who refuses to feed his dog cares about it, however much he may pet it?
How do you think we came to the decision to give you money you haven’t earned simply because you are disabled? Did that cash magically transfer itself, or was it the result of political action?
Do you understand that we vote for things besides presidents in this country?
I never said you don’t care about anything in the universe, just the wellbeing of your fellow citizen and by extension your fellow man.
Trunk: good to see that you took this thread to heart. :rolleyes:
Catalyst already said it best, but:
You know that calling people “retarded” when they disagree with you is totally gay, don’t you? :dubious:
There are some posters in this thread, and you know who you are, who should tone down their rhetoric. This is not the Pit.
I vote very rarely. If my local member (state or federal) impresses me I will vote for him/her as an individual. If I am just choosing between Liberal or Labor as unthinking parochial voter I can’t support many Liberal policies but cannot vote Labor because they are incompetent bunglers so I vote for no-one.
Ten whole states worth of voters have a say in who gets elected president, but that’s only one race held every four years. There are a whole ton of other races and referendums on those ballots, you know, and in things like county/district races, if you and the people on your block didn’t bother to vote, it might well change the outcome of the race. Some races get recounts not because of pet theories about vote fixing from national political parties, but because the difference in votes was only a couple hundred, and Joe Congressman and Jill Candidate aren’t sure which one of them really won the race. Referendums directly affect your tax rates and what your taxes are spent on, whether or not new schools get built, and other issues in your community.
What are you talking about?
They were wrong then. They’re wrong now. No one said anything in that thread that changed my heart one iota.