# i.e. Bush, tell me one good thing.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419 "2003-05-25T17:07:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/61 "2003-05-27T00:31:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _elucidator:_ > So, if I get your drift, anything that might be viewed as benefitting Americans justifies war. I mean, with all that shrapnel, blood, and stuff? Anything? If you’re responding to me, I would say that no, that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. Someone gave the example of the war in Iraq as something that Bush has done that benefitted Americans. **CBEscapee** responded by asking if Saddam had attacked any Americans, or if Saddam had ties to al Queda. I was merely pointing out that there are other ways that the war in Iraq will likely benefit Americans. Sorry if I was unclear. ---
**Author:** ![Spite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spite)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/62 "2003-05-27T01:05:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CBEscapee \* > \*\*The questions are very simple. Your answers are moronic. \*\* No, the questions you asked were red herrings that had nothing to do with what **luci** and I were discussing. The ‘quit a bit’ is listed in the resolutions I refered to. You moronic red herring ranked right there with my question about Bush not getting a blow job (that we care about anyways). ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/63 "2003-05-27T02:21:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Age Quod Agis \* > \*\*I **CBEscapee** responded by asking if Saddam had attacked any Americans, or if Saddam had ties to al Queda. I was merely pointing out that there are other ways that the war in Iraq will likely benefit Americans. Sorry if I was unclear. \*\* You still haven’t mentioned one thing from the war in Iraq that benefits Americans. What are these other ways you claim to have pointed out? You or no one else has any idea how the future of Iraq will unfold. So far it’s one big #%# mess and it doesn’t appear like it will improve soon. And Spite, I think you may be onto something. Maybe he could _use_ a blowjob from Laura. He does seem a little too tense. ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/64 "2003-05-27T08:02:20Z")
Well, the war in Iraq will benefit the USA economically, however with the way Bush handled it, it remains to be seen whether dragging the USA into the mud in the opinion of other nations doesn’t offset short term economical gains. And he is clearly at fault for doing that. An adult would know that you can’t handle international politics like a child with a temper tantrum. > [@](#): > > No, the questions you asked were red herrings Or perhaps you just didn’t get the point? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/65 "2003-05-27T14:09:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Age Quod Agis \* > \*\*Are you seriously arguing that the world would be a better place with the Taliban and Saddam still in power? No, just that it wouldn’t be much worse. But you suggested that overthrowing governments is itself a good thing, and didn’t even get into whose views on that rule. This here is still a democratic republic, not an empire. > [@](#): > > But by halving their numbers and freezing their financing, we can make the instances of terrorists “blowing things up” fewer and less severe. Cite (other than Bush’s own statements) for “half”, please? Now, re AIDS in Africa: > [@](#): > > Please note that this implies that at least “some” of it is new money. Fair enough. But you’re using the entire $15 billion to give him credit for, aren’t you? > [@](#): > > Did Bush just reshuffle the org chart or did he create a new bureaucracy? Some of each, of course. But why do you give him credit either way? > [@](#): > > And why do you assume that conservatives were always against new bureaucracies? Even conservatives weren’t against bureaucracies when they were effective and necessary. Note your own last words. > [@](#): > > And please tell us why it’s a disguised subsidy to Big Oil (which I assume is some sinister organization, because it’s capitalized and preceded by the word “Big”). Please. We’ve been over this. I’m sure you can do a search yourself. Note carefully how the proposal is for this hydrogen to be produced _only_ from petroleum. “Big Oil”, to fill you in, is a long-standing abbreviation, bereft of the connotations you are reading into, here for the major oil companies. **Sam** : > [@](#): > > That means Clinton already knew it was a huge problem. Had known it for years. And yet, what did he do? What actions of Clinton’s can you point to and say, “This made Americans safer from terrorism”? We’ve been over this many, many times, too, including with your own participation. You’d do very well to turn down the amplification on your fact filters, friend. I do give you credit for at least not making any up out of thin air and presenting them as fact in this thread, though - that I can tell, at least. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/66 "2003-05-27T14:36:06Z")
\> No, just that it wouldn’t be much worse. But you suggested \> that overthrowing governments is itself a good thing, and \> didn’t even get into whose views on that rule. WHAT!? Even after seeing all of the mass graves and torture chambers, you dare to say that it would not be much worse with Saddam in power? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/67 "2003-05-27T14:49:12Z")
[Some who think even worse than that](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-689414,00.html). And they live there. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/68 "2003-05-28T00:52:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > But you suggested that overthrowing governments is itself a good thing, and didn’t even get into whose views on that rule. I never suggested that overthrowing governments is itself a good thing. If you think differently, please show me where I said otherwise. > [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > Cite (other than Bush’s own statements) for “half”, please? Why? I was responding to **your** statement that, despite halving the number and finances of al Queda, “they’re still able to blow things up.” I merely pointed out the ridiculousness of your statement. As for the accuracy of that number, a source has already been provided. I welcome any cites you have refuting that number. > [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > Now, re AIDS in Africa: > > Fair enough. But you’re using the entire $15 billion to give him credit for, aren’t you? Yes. His budget includes $15 billion for AIDS relief in Africa. It doesn’t matter whether he was the first person to send money or not. It only matters how much he’s sending. So why aren’t you giving him credit for _any_ of the $15 billion? > [@](#): > > _me:_ > Did Bush just reshuffle the org chart or did he create a new bureaucracy? > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > Some of each, of course. So when you said that Bush had created the new cabinet department “By reshuffling the org chart - a traditional management method to create the appearance of progress,” were you lying or just misrepresenting the facts? > [@](#): > > \*me:\*And please tell us why it’s a disguised subsidy to Big Oil. > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > Note carefully how the proposal is for this hydrogen to be produced only from petroleum. It wouldn’t surprise me if the hydrogen is produced from petroleum **because that’s the best method science has for extracting usable hydrogen**. If you’ve got a better way, feel free to share it with the rest of the world. Better yet, you might want to make a trip down to the patent office. Think of all the copies of Cecil’s books you could buy with the millions you’d make from that invention. > [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > Some who think even worse than that. And they live there. Luckily, [not every Iraqi](http://daily.nysun.com/Standard/ShowStoryTemplate.asp?Path=NYS/2003/05/20&ID=Ar00102&Section=Foreign) shares **ElvisL1ve** ’s dementia, where the Americans are to blame for failing to provide instant security after overthrowing a terrible dictator, and for not occupying all of Iraq simultaneously to stop all crime and poverty in Iraq (registration to the New York Sun required): > [@](#): > > Despite their unhappiness with the current situation, Iraqis acknowledge that nothing could be worse than living under Saddam and expect that things can only get better from here. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/69 "2003-05-28T01:26:33Z")
> [@](#): > > _CBEscapee:_ > You still haven’t mentioned one thing from the war in Iraq that benefits Americans. What are these other ways you claim to have pointed out? You or no one else has any idea how the future of Iraq will unfold. So far it’s one big #%# mess and it doesn’t appear like it will improve soon. Iraq right now isn’t a mess. [This](http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/lookup/200352191120?opendocument) is a mess. [This](http://www.nichibeitimes.com/wwwboard/messages1/7440.html) is a mess. [This](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030602-454453,00.html) is a mess. Things right now aren’t as good as they’re going to be, but they’ve certainly been worse, and they’ve been worse very recently. Although I haven’t actually claimed to have pointed out any ways that the war in Iraq benefited Americans, I’ll take a stab: it will benefit the American economy because American industry will be able to go into Iraq, a place where they were previously excluded by both Saddam and the UN, and because of the benefits of Iraqi oil being reintroduced to the world market; it will make Americans more secure from Saddam’s threats (i.e., that he would like to see mushroom clouds over American cities); it will make Americans more secure from other rogue states (North Korea, I’m looking at you) because those states will be more likely to respond to American threats of action now (i.e., North Korea agreeing to multilateral negotiations); Americans will benefit more from the UN, which can concentrate its energies on endeavors other than passing resolutions condemning Iraq and receiving redundant reports about Iraq blocking searches for WMD; it will benefit Americans because the presence of a democracy that is (potentially) friendly to the US may have a calming influence on rampant anti-Americanism in the Middle East; it will benefit Americans because it will increase the level of education and freedom in the Middle East, which will make the area more stable; it will benefit Americans because it will decrease funding to Palestinean terrorists, which will again help stabilize the Middle East; and it will help Americans because we’ll all sleep better knowing that, despite **Elvis** ’s doubts, we did a pretty good thing for a nation that was being tortured and murdered by a ruthless, psychopathic dictator. I’m sure there are others, but these are the ones that come off the top of my head. I enjoyed this topic, so thanks for posting it. If nothing else, we all got to enjoy the spectacle of **elucidator** saying nice things about Bush (admittedly, with his gullet rising in his throat). Someone should open one of these about Clinton and see what **december** says. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/70 "2003-05-28T02:09:14Z")
One’s gullet is one’s throat, of course. You are most likely referring to my gorge. Let me clarify. I don’t hate George W. Bush. He is simply a mediocre man who has been flattered by the men who manipulate him. They pat him on the back and tell him what a great leader and visionary statesman he is, as they spoon-feed him his opinions. He is being used, much like Ronald Reagan was used. I don’t pity him today. I pity him the day he figures it out. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/71 "2003-05-28T06:55:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Age Quod Agis \* > \*\*Iraqi soldiers shot at American and British soldiers patrolling the no-fly zones. Saddam also tried to assasinate G.H.W. Bush when he visited Kuwait. Regardless, Saddam need not have “attacked anyone outside of his border and specifically Americans” for his removal to have benefitted Americans. \*\* You have yet to show that a benefit was achieved. > [@](#): > > \*\* > And why are we only talking about Americans? Don’t the people within Iraq’s borders count for anything?I doubt it. I think the Iraqi Information Minister has shown us that **nothing** is irrefutable. But that doesn’t mean it’s not true. So even if I ignore your implication that al Queda is the world’s only terrorist organization, I admit that I am unaware of any _irrefutable_ proof of a link between Iraq and al Queda. But again, Saddam need not have been linked with al Queda for his removal to have benefitted Americans. \*\* And his removal need not be entirely bad for it to be against anyone’s best interest _in the way that it happened_. As for the people within Iraq’s borders, please, spare me hypocritical feel-good arguments. The administration has shown quite well that their value is negligible compared to that of an American. So far, there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone will be better off in the long run. The arguments that we hear right now are the very same ones we heard at the end of the Najibullah regime in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/72 "2003-05-28T06:59:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Age Quod Agis \* > **Things right now aren’t as good as they’re going to be, but they’ve certainly been worse, and they’ve been worse very recently.** Oh, have they? I’d like to see your evidence that as many people died in as little time, and that people died from as simple things as diarrhoea _while in hospital_. It is always interesting to see that any number of dead isn’t really bad if the right people are responsible for the death. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Although I haven’t actually claimed to have pointed out any ways that the war in Iraq benefited Americans, I’ll take a stab: it will benefit the American economy because American industry will be able to go into Iraq, a place where they were previously excluded by both Saddam and the UN, and because of the benefits of Iraqi oil being reintroduced to the world market; it will make Americans more secure from Saddam’s threats (i.e., that he would like to see mushroom clouds over American cities); it will make Americans more secure from other rogue states (North Korea, I’m looking at you) because those states will be more likely to respond to American threats of action now (i.e., North Korea agreeing to multilateral negotiations); Americans will benefit more from the UN, which can concentrate its energies on endeavors other than passing resolutions condemning Iraq and receiving redundant reports about Iraq blocking searches for WMD; it will benefit Americans because the presence of a democracy that is (potentially) friendly to the US may have a calming influence on rampant anti-Americanism in the Middle East; it will benefit Americans because it will increase the level of education and freedom in the Middle East, which will make the area more stable; it will benefit Americans because it will decrease funding to Palestinean terrorists, which will again help stabilize the Middle East; and it will help Americans because we’ll all sleep better knowing that, despite **Elvis** ’s doubts, we did a pretty good thing for a nation that was being tortured and murdered by a ruthless, psychopathic dictator. I’m sure there are others, but these are the ones that come off the top of my head. > \*\* The problem is that you haven’t shown that any of it is the case, nor that it is likely to ever be the case. As such, all you are doing is cheering the great leader for no other reason than that he’s telling you he’s doing the right thing and everything will be fine. ---
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/73 "2003-05-28T13:52:56Z")
Where does one begin? In order of posting: > [@](#): > > Well, there hasn’t been a major terrorist attack in the U.S. since 9/11. That’s a good thing. A good thing, indeed. Certainly the offensive against al-Qaeda gets the credit, but honestly how differently would any president have reacted to 9/11? > [@](#): > > Iraq is free. That’s a VERY good thing. They are currently in anarchy and free to choose any government except one that the US doesn’t like. Hardly free at all, and there appears to be no exit plan. > [@](#): > > Syria, Iran, Libya, and other countries are cooperating with the U.S. in new and important ways. That’s a good thing. GWB is rattling sabers regarding Iran, hardly a good thing. Somehow I missed the story about Libyan cooperation. > [@](#): > > The chance for peace in the Middle East is higher now than it’s been for a decade. Just this morning, the Israeli Cabinet approved the Bush ‘road map’ towards peace. I’ll count this chicken when it hatches. > [@](#): > > The ABM treaty is gone, and the U.S. is working towards missile defense. This will be the black hole of the budget for decades to come. > [@](#): > > Bush has accomplished more in his first two years than any president in my memory. Including Reagan or Clinton. I don’t think so- unless you count starting a war by lying to the American people as an accomplishment. Or is pillaging the treasury a major accomplishment? > [@](#): > > Clinton and Reagan both responded to numerous horrible attacks against Americans with feckless responses. None of these were anywhere near the scale of 9/11. I am happy to learn the Bush has lots of feck. > [@](#): > > The first WTC attack that happened under Clinton could have killed FAR more people. Subsequent investigation showed that if the Ryder truck had been positioned better in the parkade, it would have brought the towers down almost instantly, and there would have been at least 10,000 dead. I’d like to see a reference on this, I’ve never seen it said that the attack came anywhere remotely close to precipitating a catastrophic failure. > [@](#): > > His response was to treat it as a criminal act instead of an organized act of terrorism. It was, of course, both. > [@](#): > > Bush, on the other hand, instituted sweeping reforms of security, and overthrew the governments of two different countries. This puts him on a par with who- Napoleon? Caesar? > [@](#): > > Do you think that would have been the case if the U.S. had, say, just warned the Taliban, blown up a few caves from the air, and then went home and tried to forget about the whole thing? You can’t assume that’s what Clinton or Gore would have done- chances are the Gore would have gone after al-Qaeda and perhaps he wouldn’t have let Bin Laden slip through his fingers. > [@](#): > > Bush is a ‘transformational’ President. Some presidents take office and just try to tinker with the world as it is. They maintain the system. But some come along and kick it in the ass and make sweeping changes. FDR was a transformational President. So was Lincoln. And Reagan. Good Lord. Lying to start a war and pillaging the treasury makes you transformational. > [@](#): > > Bush has created a new cabinet department. I’m sure if a Democrat did this, he’d be ridiculed for creating Big Government. > [@](#): > > oesn’t his 70+% approval rating suggest that at least the majority of Americans think so? He’s about where his daddy was after winning his war with Saddam. See where it got him. > [@](#): > > No ones rights were violated by the fact that Bush is president rather than Gore. Except maybe the voters of Florida. > [@](#): > > we did a pretty good thing for a nation that was being tortured and murdered by a ruthless, psychopathic dictator. Of course, we’re selective in which ones we go after. The whole rationale was that “we have to go after THIS nut because he has these terrible weapons.” Of course, he never used these weapons, even when attacked by the US, and now we can’t find them. So now the war was never about weapons. OK, so why aren’t we in North Korea? China? Libya? Cuba? I will say this about Bush- though he lied to start a war that cost $70 billion and over 100 lives, at least he didn’t lie about his sex life. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/74 "2003-05-28T14:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Age Quod Agis \* > I was responding to **your** statement that, despite halving the number and finances of al Queda, “they’re still able to blow things up.” I merely pointed out the ridiculousness of your statement. They are, in fact, still able to blow things up. Perhaps you’ve missed the news from Riyadh, and Casablanca, and Bali … > [@](#): > > So why aren’t you giving him credit for _any_ of the $15 billion? As an antidote to your giving him credit for all of it, and then claiming it’s more than any other President has done. We depend on facts and honesty here, pal. > [@](#): > > So when you said that Bush had created the new cabinet department “By reshuffling the org chart - a traditional management method to create the appearance of progress,” were you lying or just misrepresenting the facts? That again is an antidote to your claim that it has made the world a better place. > [@](#): > > It wouldn’t surprise me if the hydrogen is produced from petroleum **because that’s the best method science has for extracting usable hydrogen**. If you’ve got a better way, feel free to share it with the rest of the world. The point you’re strenuously avoiding is that the Bush proposal does _not_ explore any other way, and that “science” is _not_ going to find a better way without funding. By restricting the effort to petroleum sources, only petroleum companies will benefit. _Capisce, signore?_ Now why would that be - any ideas? > [@](#): > > Not every Iraqi shares… Your information is better than mine on what basis, pray tell? > [@](#): > > **ElvisL1ve** ’s dementia, Sounds like a surrender there. Here’s a hint: Stick to facts and reasoning, as already stated, and you might actually convince someone other than yourself someday. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/75 "2003-05-28T17:21:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > **Well, there hasn’t been a major terrorist attack in the U.S. since 9/11. That’s a good thing.** To which I retort with [_The Simpsons_](http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.html), which, as usual, has a great deal of wisdom: > [@](#): > > Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm. > Lisa: That’s [specious] reasoning, Dad. > Homer: Thank you, dear. > Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away. > Homer: Oh, how does it work? > Lisa: It doesn’t work. > Homer: Uh-huh. > Lisa: It’s just a stupid rock. > Homer: Uh-huh. > Lisa: But I don’t see any tigers around, do you? > [Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money] > Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock. > [Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange] Quix ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/76 "2003-05-28T18:07:51Z")
> [@](#): > > _OliverH:_ > Oh, have they? I’d like to see your evidence that as many people died in as little time, and that people died from as simple things as diarrhoea while in hospital. > . . . > So far, there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone will be better off in the long run. Forgive me, but it’s hard to take someone seriously when they make statements like this. If you really think the Iraqis would have been better off with Saddam, then I’d suggest you take another look at some of the atrocities he committed against his people. I’ve linked a few of them above. However, in response to your request, please see the following [article from CBC News](http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2001/07/11/iraq010711), dated July 11, 2001: > [@](#): > > Iraq says about 600,000 children under the age of five have died of diarrhea, pneumonia, and respiratory and malnutrition-related diseases. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419/77 "2003-05-28T18:12:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > They are, in fact, still able to blow things up. Perhaps you’ve missed the news from Riyadh, and Casablanca, and Bali … The ridiculousness of your statement wasn’t that it was false, it was that it wholly ignored the benefit of halving the number and finances of terrorists. Now feel free to continue to march in circles. > [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > As an antidote to your giving him credit for all of it, and then claiming it’s more than any other President has done. We depend on facts and honesty here, pal. If we depend on facts and honesty, then why are you lying? I never said it’s more than any other President has done, and you came out against giving him credit long before I ever said he should get credit for all of it. And even if your lies were true, then how do your lies balance out my disagreement with you? Hypocrite, thy name is **ElvisL1ves**. > [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > That again is an antidote to your claim that it has made the world a better place. This **kills** me! You’re admitting to lying, and then pretending it’s ok because I disagree with you. > [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > Your information is better than mine on what basis, pray tell? I never said it was (another lie?). I just assumed the two were equal. Note that I didn’t say that “all Iraqis disagree with **ElvisL1ves** ,” just that there are different opinions. > [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > The point you’re strenuously avoiding is that the Bush proposal does not explore any other way, and that “science” is not going to find a better way without funding. By restricting the effort to petroleum sources, only petroleum companies will benefit. First, “science” discovers lots of things without government funding. Second, lots of people would benefit from efficient hydrogen fuel cells; petroleum companies aren’t the only ones that will benefit from this research. Third, you actually seem to be arguing that the money should go to finding other ways to extract hydrogen. I don’t see why that would be true (other than opposing the involvement of oil companies in any way), but that’s a different argument from saying that the current program is worthless. > [@](#): > > _me:_ > ElvisL1ve’s dementia I shouldn’t have written this. I wrote it with tongue in cheek. However, I have apparently caused offense. I apologize if I have. I strongly disagree with you, but I shouldn’t have implied that you’re demented. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-e-bush-tell-me-one-good-thing/177419.md?page=3)