# I fear I'm about to lose my country **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926 "2023-10-22T16:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/701 "2024-10-04T00:16:41Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > What worries me is that the political opposition is AWOL Pardon my snip. Yeah, that was what I was implying in the at least a year, best case. I was hoping that the legislature could give pause to some of their efforts, but I have been reading your updates about the epic caving in, silence, or out and out compliance and it worries me that at each stage they’ve only given token resistance. Ugh x2? x3? I’ve lost track. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/702 "2024-10-04T15:37:28Z")
Don’t forget to take every opportunity to mock and ridicule Milei for being delusional, believing life is the same as TV, thinking nobody will notice if he cheaply plagiarizes a US TV show and for being generally ridiculous: > **[Argentina’s Javier Milei accused of plagiarising UN speech from West Wing](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/04/argentina-javier-milei-accused-plagiarising-un-speech-west-wing)** > > Populist leader alleged to have ‘copied word for word’ a monologue by TV show’s fictional president Jed Bartlet Just like his orange big brother, ridiculing him hurts the most. Short of jailing him, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/703 "2024-10-04T15:40:46Z")
Oh we are on it never you doubt it, you never have to _prod_ argentinians to mock someone, in fact you often have to physically restrain them if you want them to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/704 "2024-10-04T15:43:32Z")
Tranquilo, I won’t restrain you at all. Neither will I restrain Milei when he quotes word for word Emperor Papaltine’s address to the Imperial Senate. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/705 "2024-10-04T15:49:08Z")
To which the Senate will applaud. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/706 "2024-10-04T16:01:04Z")
Let’s hope it doesn’t get to that. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/707 "2024-10-09T18:56:15Z")
The veto stands, almost got overridden but a few legislators had sudden changes of opinion or were victims of the first recorded cases of COVID contracted by bank transfer… So, between the turncoats and the absent the veto stands. Not sure were we go from here ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/708 "2024-10-09T19:09:19Z")
I hate to be saying this, but it seems to me that various authoritarians across the world have learned in the past two decades or so. An actual, functional (for values of functional) representative government is more than happy to elect a strong man ™ and very few will hold them accountable once in office. The people who live up to the ideals of such governments will protest, peacefully, and try the proper channels to correct them… but that doesn’t STOP the abuse. And if they go beyond that, it allow said strong man to crack down with ever greater, extra legal force in the name of stopping extremism. The whole world seems to see an awakening of authoritarians to the idea “but what if I/we just _didn’t_…” and I don’t see much indication it’s getting better overall. Oh, sure, individual nations, states, or areas try (see all the efforts in the USA to get abortion as a state-constitution protected right) but if the majority doesn’t care, or is apathetic (again see the USA) about holding those in power to the rules written and not… Yeah. I did say I hate hate to be saying this. I spent a lot of time in 2016+ saying that at least the rest of the world is smarter than this… and now I’m seeing Trump, Putin, and Edrogan as the trendsetters instead. Now I need a drink. Or several. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/709 "2024-10-15T15:24:58Z")
College students are in full revolt, more than a 100 university building have been taken by the students. Now, this kind of thing (one or two buildings taken by students) is something that happens all the time in Argentina, classes continue normally for example. But never in this scale (even the law and the engineering buildings of the University of Buenos Aires, traditionally bastions of the right wing or indifferent to politics have being taken) It remains to be seen if it will produce any tangible results, normal governments can feel embarrassed by this kind of thing and try to either negotiate or (this is forbidden by law but military governments have a somewhat idiosyncratic relation with legality) clear the students from the building with the police. These guys? I fear they couldn’t care less. At least is a refreshing proof that not all is lost, not everyone is anesthetized. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/710 "2024-10-15T16:32:12Z")
Does Argentina suffer from the same dichotomy (in the US at least) between the strong feelings of younger voters and their actual underperformance at the polls? If not, I could hope that it means good things for the _next_ election if it’s allowed to happen without meddling, and if the situation isn’t unrecoverable by that point. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/711 "2024-10-15T16:46:28Z")
No, or at least not to that extreme extent, on the other hand college students are a minority of the youth vote. Voting is obligatory here, (something that I support more and more when I see the consequences of voluntary voting in the U.S.), we used to have about 90% turnout regularly, but unfortunately we are losing that, turnout is getting lower every year because the law is not enforced, the fine for not voting is a ridiculously low amount set in currency three or four currency changes out of date, and so turnout is now a still respectable 75%, not bad, but getting worse. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/712 "2024-10-15T16:56:05Z")
Yeah, it’s unspeakably stupid here. I give credit to my father, who has become increasingly conservative over the years (different thread) who at least 100% supports making Federal elections a national holiday at least, with mandatory time off for all persons in at least a 4 hour block so they can vote. I’m not saying it would fix the damn problem, but I would _help_. Again, as I’ve said in many threads, my fellow Americans are big on “rights” and weak on “responsibilities”. Or, as I said once "Spider-Man for President! Let’s have someone who’s motto is “With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility!” Back to Argentina, do you think the students can _maintain_ the protests? I agree with your (more informed of course) assessment that the current government is incapable of being shamed into action, but at times, just ignoring the problem is a shockingly good way to sucking the oxygen out of their fire. Or do you think it’ll grow past their enthusiasm to a larger scale event, with more parties joining in and causing sufficient disruption to the point the governing groups can no longer ignore it? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/713 "2024-10-15T17:07:52Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Back to Argentina, do you think the students can _maintain_ the protests? I agree with your (more informed of course) assessment that the current government is incapable of being shamed into action, but at times, just ignoring the problem is a shockingly good way to sucking the oxygen out of their fire. > > Or do you think it’ll grow past their enthusiasm to a larger scale event, with more parties joining in and causing sufficient disruption to the point the governing groups can no longer ignore it? Frankly I don’t have the foggiest. On the one hand the administration is a bunch of psychos who can ignore cancer patients dying for lack of medicine, ignoring college protests is child’s play for them. On the other hand, the universities truly cannot continue with these wages for professors, and the students are young and enthusiastic, they may continue with this indefinitely. So it’s the unstoppable force vs the uncaring object, I fear that all they’ll get is the protests going on without nothing changing, forever. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/714 "2024-10-15T18:17:21Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > who at least 100% supports making Federal elections a national holiday at least, with mandatory time off for all persons in at least a 4 hour block so they can vote. I’m not saying it would fix the damn problem, but I would _help_. Not to hijack, but the insanity is voting nationwide in person _on a single day_. Why isn’t it Election _month_? Why isn’t vote by mail required by federal law as a no-excuses, no gamesmanship option for all elections? Etc., for another dozen ways to make voting a minor imposition on everyone’s schedule rather than a nationwide disruptive clusterfuck? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2024, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/715 "2024-10-16T02:47:51Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > On the other hand, the universities truly cannot continue with these wages for professors, and the students are young and enthusiastic, they may continue with this indefinitely. This reminds me so much of how South Korea was in the 1970s and into the 1980s. The only things, really, that stopped that were the assassination of their ~~dictator~~ president and the (years long) aftermath of the Gwangju Uprising. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Why isn’t it Election _month_? Why isn’t vote by mail required by federal law as a no-excuses, no gamesmanship option for all elections? Etc., for another dozen ways to make voting a minor imposition on everyone’s schedule rather than a nationwide disruptive clusterfuck? You must have missed [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-suppression/922002). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2024, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/716 "2024-10-16T10:02:41Z")
Oh, I fully understand _why_ we have the restrictive nonsense we do, and why it’s so much more prevalent in red states. If I was Empereor the crime of _attempt_ to wrongfully prevent someone from voting would carry a penalty of permanent loss of citizenship. Now you’re stateless and deported to limbo? Too bad, so sad. Should have thought of that before you committed your crime. My point was merely that if we’re fantasy-fixing the system as my quote from @ParallelLines wanted to do, let’s actually _fix_ it, not merely apply a teeny band-aid. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/717 "2024-10-25T14:57:48Z")
So in a classic move the administriation just disolved the AFIP, our equivalent of the IRS. And by “disolved” I mean they changed its name, made it dependent on other ministeries (it was independent to try and avoid favoritism on tax collection) and fired 3000 employees (one of which tried to kill himself by jumping from a 9th floor and is in grave condition) The libertarians in twitter are celebrating all of this, (including the firings and the suicide attempt), but there seems to be a backlash, it’s like they are getting _too_ loathsome even for twitter. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/718 "2024-10-25T16:30:11Z")
In a popular conservative sub on reddit, the question was asked what people thought of Milei and there was universal love for the _redacted because this isn’t the pit_. I’m pretty sure that none of the respondents were actually Argentinian. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/719 "2024-10-25T19:28:01Z")
I always find it funny in the “ha ha ouch” sort of way the sheer amount of hate for the IRS. No, I get that no one wants to pay money, but they are so very entitled about the results of such taxes: roads, schools, military, etc. But no, the government is “supposed” to just provide these things. And the fact is, many/most people who are bitching about it are the ones paying the least (granted, the have left overall to give) but the ones _benefiting_ are the ones making all the money, and already engaged in all the legal dodges to avoid said taxes. [not to say there shouldn’t be oversights on excessive government spending and lack of oversight on so many projects going dramatically overbudget with zero consequences] But yeah, back to @frodo and Argentina - this sure looks like another scapegoat, something hated, and claims of “efficiency” not to mention the short term savings of 3000 jobs cut, but then next year, when tax income drops dramatically, and somehow the cronies and fat cats are paying less than ever? Well, those said cronies got what they wanted, and of course, more cuts will be required, no? And certainly not of the highly respected productive businessmen who are supporting the poor country. /s 🤢 ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/720 "2024-10-25T23:02:54Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I always find it funny in the “ha ha ouch” sort of way the sheer amount of hate for the IRS. My main issue is that the IRS (and presumably the AFIP) has the job of _collecting_ taxes, not _imposing_ them. If people are mad about taxes, whether justified or not, they should be mad at the part of government that decides who gets taxed and how much, not the agency that enforces those tax laws. It shows that they don’t have the political capital to actually make the changes to the tax laws that they want to make, and instead just want to cripple/politicize enforcement of those laws as an alternate means to the same end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926.md?page=37)