# I fear I'm about to lose my country **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926 "2023-10-22T16:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/721 "2024-10-26T04:20:14Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I’m pretty sure that none of the respondents were actually Argentinian. Back when ‘Nickle Bag’ Joe Arpaio was sheriff of Maricopa county the enthusiasm one had for his policies was directly proportional to their distance from the county. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/722 "2024-10-26T13:51:05Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > But yeah, back to @frodo and Argentina - this sure looks like another scapegoat, something hated, and claims of “efficiency” not to mention the short term savings of 3000 jobs cut, but then next year, when tax income drops dramatically, and somehow the cronies and fat cats are paying less than ever? Well, those said cronies got what they wanted, and of course, more cuts will be required, no? And certainly not of the highly respected productive businessmen who are supporting the poor country. /s > > 🤢 My thoughts exactly. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/723 "2024-10-30T01:02:21Z")
I always find it funny how CNN and most American news only carries news on Argentina when it fits into our own local/internal conflicts. 😮‍💨 > **[Abortion access is dwindling in Milei’s Argentina three years after...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/29/americas/argentina-abortion-access-javier-milei-intl-latam/index.html)** > > Since the start of his administration, the government of Argentina’s President Javier Milei halted the purchase of essential supplies for abortion access and has not delivered a single box of misoprostol,... So, I have to dig to find news about all the issues going on with legislation, budgets, job cuts, and the rest, but CNN remembers somethings going on there when it’s about abortion. I mean, I get it, issues touching on abortion are hot-button topics right now with the election, but all of the “secondary” framing bits that inform this piece of reporting show just how disruptive Milei’s policies have been. > There, they sat her down with other patients and explained to all of them how the abortion procedure worked. When some of them asked if the hospital would provide the medication, they were told there wasn’t enough, and they would be given a prescription to buy the abortion-inducing drug misoprostol privately. > > “At that moment, I didn’t have 100,000 pesos (about 73 dollars at the parallel exchange rate in July). My husband had lost his registered job, so I went to the public hospital to get it for free,” she explains, adding that she tried to inquire about misoprostol with professionals at the public hospital in her area, but they also didn’t have free medication. > > “When I asked, they replied: no, we don’t have any. I started crying, going back home, I was overwhelmed with despair because my husband had gone far away to work, and I was left alone. It felt like every door was closed to me. And I got home crying with my baby in my arms”, María recounts. > > CNN contacted the Ministry of Health of the province of Misiones, where they confirmed: “This year we have had a significant shortage from the National Sexual Health Program, regarding the basket of sexual health products, including misoprostol. The province is working to restore the situation, and in the specific case of the inquiry, treatments are being sent to hospitals to ensure access.” > > Since the start of his administration, the government of Argentina’s President Javier Milei halted the purchase of essential supplies for abortion access and has not delivered a single box of misoprostol, mifepristone, or manual vacuum aspiration cannulas, essential elements to guarantee abortion access for pregnant individuals, [according to an information request filed](https://amnistia.org.ar/wp-content/uploads/delightful-downloads/2024/07/Respuesta-DNSSR-pedido-insumos.pdf) by rights group Amnesty International. > > Abortions were legalized in Argentina in 2021 in all cases up to 14 weeks of pregnancy. According to the legislation, a person who wants an abortion has the right to do so safely and free of charge. Just reminds me that Milei starts near the top of the evil tree and still manages to hit every branch on the way down to the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/724 "2024-10-30T17:45:54Z")
And we were so happy and proud when we finally legalized it. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/725 "2024-11-15T04:58:44Z")
-sigh- I see Argentina got into the US news again, but not in a good way. > **[Argentina votes against UN resolution combating online violence against women...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/14/americas/argentina-un-resolution-women-girls-intl-latam/index.html)** > > Argentina was the only country to vote against the resolution, and argued that it contained ambiguous terms such as “hate speech,” “misinformation,” and “disinformation” that could be used “abusively” to restrict freedom of expression. > Argentina was the [only country](https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/13/americas/cop29-argentina-withdraws-milei-intl-latam/index.html) to vote against a United Nations resolution promoting the end of all forms of online violence against women and girls. > > … > > A total of 170 nations voted in favor, while 13 others abstained, including Iran, Russia, Nicaragua, and North Korea. > > Argentinian President Javier Milei has been a vocal critic of the UN, accusing the global body of trying to “impose an ideological agenda” while seeking to distance Argentina from the UN-sponsored 2030 Sustainable Development Agenda. > > “We are at the end of a cycle. The collectivism and moral high ground from the woke agenda have crashed with reality, and they don’t offer credible solutions for the world’s problem,” he said from the podium at the UN General Assembly in September. When you give North Frikkin’ Korea the moral high ground… ugh. I can’t sympathize enough Frodo, but don’t worry, I’m sure Trump 2.0 will have us neck and neck in a race to the bottom of elected vomit-inducing tin-plated hateful despots. ETA - to be clear, I’m not dumping on Argentina in any way, I’m dumping on how US news only seems to mention it when they want to throw shade on Argentina or when it relates to some US bleeding topic. The protests and efforts of @frodo and his countrymen to challenge the BS, the cynical manipulations, the cronyism at the top? NONE of that makes the news. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/726 "2024-11-15T12:26:58Z")
I was hoping nobody here would notice the latest stunt of these bozos… no such luck 🤦‍♂️ > [@ParallelLines](#): > > I can’t sympathize enough Frodo, but don’t worry, I’m sure Trump 2.0 will have us neck and neck in a race to the bottom of elected vomit-inducing tin-plated hateful despots. It’s uncanny how much what’s happening in the U.S. now resembles what happened here in November of last year… My condolences 😢 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/727 "2024-11-15T14:56:41Z")
'Murrica! We’re F’n _ **GREAT** _ at totalitarianism! The best evar! My countrymen are morons. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/728 "2024-11-15T15:00:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > My countrymen are morons. Our fellow humans are morons, let’s hope they wise up before extinction. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/729 "2024-11-18T19:56:36Z")
One Milei supporter is reported today to have founded an **armed wing** 😲 of Milei’s party (sorry, could only find German language and Spanish language reports on a cursory search) > **[Argentinien - Javier Mileis Partei bekommt bewaffneten Flügel](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/argentinien-javier-mileis-partei-bekommt-bewaffneten-fluegel-a-40014672-77c7-464b-b8e5-de514a9830d4)** > > »Wir sind seine treuesten Soldaten«: Ein libertärer Aktivist ruft für Argentiniens Präsidenten Javier Milei eine neue Gruppe von Unterstützern aus – und zieht einen Vergleich zur Eliteeinheit römischer Kaiser. > **[Militantes de Milei lanzan Las fuerzas del cielo, el “brazo armado” del...](https://elpais.com/argentina/2024-11-18/militantes-de-milei-lanzan-las-fuerzas-del-cielo-el-brazo-armado-del-gobierno-ultra.html)** > > La oposición repudia el surgimiento de la organización, definida por sus impulsores como “la guardia pretoriana” del presidente argentino Is that a big deal, or only hot air? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/730 "2024-11-18T21:05:16Z")
I think, I believe, I _hope_ it’s only hot air, Milei’s hard core fans are your usual “Brave only in the internet” edgelord. That said it’s a worrying development. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/731 "2024-11-18T21:10:18Z")
Here’s an English Language version: [https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/backers-argentinas-milei-launch-armed-group-support-far-right-president-2024-11-18/](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/backers-argentinas-milei-launch-armed-group-support-far-right-president-2024-11-18/) A quick snip of part that applies to the earlier questions: > The so-called “Heavenly Forces,” or “Las fuerzas del cielo” in Spanish, were launched late Saturday by well-known Milei backer and right-wing influencer Daniel Parisini, who described the group as Milei’s “praetorian guard,” in a nod to the elite unit that once protected Roman emperors. > > In the United States, armed militia-style groups supporting U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, who Milei strongly backs, have become politically active in recent years. > > Even though Parisini, a libertarian activist better known as “Gordo Dan” online, described the group as armed, neither he nor other prominent backers showed off any firearms at an event in the capital Buenos Aires or in a video announcing the group’s formation. So again, while we absolutely have our Trump/Milei parallels, they haven’t _displayed_ proof of armament. But the fact that they openly describe themselves as a Praetorian guard says _very_ bad things for the future of elected government. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/732 "2024-11-18T21:31:38Z")
What I thought of when reading about this development was not “Praetorian Guard” but **[Sturmabteilung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung)**. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/733 "2024-11-18T22:25:53Z")
AKA Proud Boyz. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/734 "2024-11-18T23:10:15Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I’m dumping on how US news only seems to mention it when they want to throw shade on Argentina or when it relates to some US bleeding topic. Seems hit or miss to me. There are regular reports on the improved inflation rate, like this: [https://www.reuters.com/markets/argentinas-inflation-rate-cools-consumers-still-feel-squeezed-2024-11-12/](https://www.reuters.com/markets/argentinas-inflation-rate-cools-consumers-still-feel-squeezed-2024-11-12/) Though the title seems misleading. The annual rate is high because inflation was still terrible a year ago. The annualized monthly rate is down to ~32%, which is a pretty dramatic improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/735 "2024-12-03T16:18:33Z")
Want to read a weird one? It is about a hand drawn poster, the man who drew it, and what has become of him so far. In Spanish, I am afraid, but I must share this nonetheless: > **[La historia detrás del cartel de cartón que fascina a los libertarios: "Es un...](https://www.eldiarioar.com/politica/historia-detras-cartel-carton-fascina-libertarios-escudo-proteger-milei_1_11864893.html)** > > Flavio Arenales tiene 50 años y es el hombre que creó un símbolo que se ve en cada acto oficialista. Ya se encontró varias veces con el Presidente y está firmado por Karina. El condimento místico en el balotaje 2023, sus viajes a otras provincias, la... Things that happen when you believe in the Power of Heaven (or the Force of the Sky, depending on how you translate the poster). ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/736 "2024-12-03T17:15:21Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > In Spanish, I am afraid, but I must share this nonetheless Can you give a short English description? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/737 "2024-12-03T17:36:16Z")
Yes, I’m generally okay with Spanish (Mexican Spanish, at least), but this had rather a lot of unfamiliar vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/738 "2024-12-03T18:13:22Z")
I can try, but it is weird. There is a man, Flavio Arenales, who drew a poster to support Milei. Here you see the man and the poster: [![](https://static.eldiario.es/clip/9ab3c940-0139-491b-b9c2-3fdd7f292a47_16-9-discover-aspect-ratio_default_0.webp) ](https://static.eldiario.es/clip/9ab3c940-0139-491b-b9c2-3fdd7f292a47_16-9-discover-aspect-ratio_default_0.webp) Fuerza del cielo means “The Power of Heaven”, Virrey del Pino means vice-king of the pine tree, and it is the place where Flavio Arenales lives. On the day after the election between Milei (who won) and Massa (former finance minister in the preceding government) Flavio Arenales took the bus to go to the first rally that Milei held after the ballot to celebrate his victory. He was sure that the poster had contributed decisively to the victory and Milei acknowledged something like that when he took the poster and held it high (as pictured in the t-shirt in the picture above). Milei’s sister signed the poster (you can see the signature in the picture above in blue). Now Flavio Arenales is waiting for Milei to sign the poster too so he can frame it. Flavio is convinced that dark sorcerers were sent to make Milei lose. He fought them, because he is a good sorcerer, a being of light. Quoting from the article: > “I came here. I know myself. I can’t tell you. But all the negative things they were bringing [the “bad” sorcerers] so that Milei would lose in the ballot, which was an obstacle they were going to put in his way, I worked on them and transformed them into positive energies. I had to somehow shape how to make a shield for Milei that night. And that’s when Fuerza del Cielo was born, which is my strength”, he assures. Flavio challenges the incredulous: “What I am telling you is what happened. If you want to believe it, believe it. There are no spells here. I didn’t kill any animal here in my house. No. I don’t do those things. It’s all love and faith and conviction. A lot of conviction. What I did was not in vain”. But I am afraid I am not able to convey the contradictions I see between a poor man who believes in mystical bullshit, the sacrifices he makes to follow his messias (in the article he explains who he followed before, and it sounds like the Life of Brian [_BRIAN: I’m not the Messiah! ARTHUR: I say You are, Lord, and I should know. I’ve followed a few._], how he often sleeps rough when following the campaign trail and how he neglects his family for this self imposed mission), and what the Milei campaign makes of that. It is the details in the story that make it harrowing, absurd and hilarious at the same time. Like: he always wore the same shirt and was ridiculed for that (fuck social media, btw). His followers collected money and donated it to him, so he bought a motorcycle, construction materials, a cement mixer, a water heater and a stove. ETA: For a Spaniard from Spain I must admit that this article did have a lot of unfamiliar vocabulary for me too! ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/739 "2024-12-03T21:03:42Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Virrey del Pino means vice-king of the pine tree Nitpick “viceroy” not “vice-king”, Mr Del Pino was a governor sent from Spain when this was a Spanish colony. (Must’ve been a good governor, before moving last month I lived on “Virrey Del Pino” street and there are several towns with his name, but I don’t remember ever learning about him in school). ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/740 "2024-12-03T21:07:12Z")
As for the article… I read until the part where he says that his family lost everything with the “Rodrigazo” and had to stop. The “Rodrigazo” is the colloquial name for the shock policies of finance minister Celestino Rodrigo, one of a long progeny of economic thinkers whose last exponent is… Javier Milei. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926.md?page=38)