# I fear I'm about to lose my country **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926 "2023-10-22T16:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![martyg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@martyg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martyg)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/101 "2023-11-04T01:38:56Z")
Fair enough. What I’m trying to point out to you is that Americans have been through that with the Trump presidency, and we are experiencing the fallout now. If we’re not into reconstruction now, we will be soon. Even Germany managed to repair itself after World War II. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/102 "2023-11-04T01:41:29Z")
I wish I had your optimism, both for your country and for mine. ---
**Author:** ![nitter](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nitter/32/15360_2.png) [@nitter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitter)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/103 "2023-11-04T01:43:00Z")
reminds me the first Harrods outside British was in Argentina and then someone starts a nationalization later. Sometimes we think that many things have been broken recently, but it may have been lost the seeds long before. ---
**Author:** ![martyg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@martyg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martyg)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/104 "2023-11-04T01:43:45Z")
I believe you will find the optimism somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/105 "2023-11-04T01:56:07Z")
Harrod’s was never nationalized, from what I’m reading it merged with Gath & Chaves in 1922, but existed (in private hands) in different forms until it closed in 1998. Don’t fall for the myth of an “super power” Argentina in the first years of the twentieth century, we (or better yet, the local aristocracy) made wagonloads of money selling cows to the U.K. Then Britain closed its markets to non-comonwealth nations and that was it. We should’ve used that money to industrialize and diversify but those same aristocrats were content with being (in their words) “The most precious jewel in the British Crown” 🤮 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/106 "2023-11-04T02:07:30Z")
Do you know what one of the most irritating aspects of some Americans is? That they always try to explain everything about foreign countries by relating it to US, particularly US politics. > [@martyg](#): > > I’m basing this comment on the very real fact that I saw the American propaganda machine being built in the 80’s when Reagan & the FCC scuttled the Fairness Doctrine. > [@martyg](#): > > This is not a spritzo: Why the hyperbole? You’re not going to lose your country. We’re just going to fight each other, that’s all. Count me out. I’m a silent radical, most politically in line with people like Jello Biafra, Ralph Nader, Baba Ram Dass, Noam Chomsky, etc > [@martyg](#): > > I dislike Trump, but I do find solace in the number of people who are and always were against what can loosely be called his policies, and work to expose their fallacies. > [@martyg](#): > > What I’m trying to point out to you is that Americans have been through that with the Trump presidency, and we are experiencing the fallout now Heck, I’m a Canadian who posts a lot about US politics. But I try to do it based on my understanding of US news and politics, not by dragging Justin and Pierre into every post. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/107 "2023-11-04T02:09:26Z")
Haha, it’s ok, we all try to understand other countries using analogies to ours, at least until we know more about them. ---
**Author:** ![nitter](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nitter/32/15360_2.png) [@nitter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitter)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/108 "2023-11-04T02:11:52Z")
I agree with that, the local aristocracy failed their responsibilities. Though I’m not sure industrialize and diversify could save Argentina after 1914. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/109 "2023-11-04T02:14:02Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > With that name she harkens to a _founder_ family if I’m not mistaken. > [@Frodo](#): > > Correct. What does this mean, please? ---
**Author:** ![martyg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@martyg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martyg)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/110 "2023-11-04T02:14:10Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Do you know what one of the most irritating aspects of some Americans is? > > That they always try to explain everything about foreign countries by relating it to US, particularly US politics. I could tell you the trip I wish you to take but you probably already know it. I can only relate it to what I know. If you can’t handle it you’re more than welcome to step off the merry-go-round. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/111 "2023-11-04T02:15:36Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > We should’ve used that money to industrialize and diversify but those same aristocrats were content with being (in their words) “The most precious jewel in the British Crown” It’s a common failing. Here in Canada, the province of Alberta succumbed to the same problem. Once the richest province, it basked in riches that included an enormous reserve fund. Then it started getting hit with multiple economic disasters: the collapse of oil prices, and now, even as prices rebound, the rising antipathy to fossil fuels, resulting in policies like the carbon tax and the cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline. When you’ve been the beneficiary of a golden goose for so long, it’s hard to face the reality that the goose is dying. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/112 "2023-11-04T02:16:25Z")
Juan Martín de Pueyrredón was one of the first “Supreme Directors” (read “president”) of the United Provinces of the River Plate (a name that fell in disuse against the shorter and fairer “Argentina”) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/113 "2023-11-04T02:18:15Z")
Ah. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/114 "2023-11-05T17:41:03Z")
@Frodo how much is the current gas (petrol) -crisis in Arg. a real thing? (context: there are huge lines in front of gas-stations in arg. as the highly subsidized gas price was unfrozen; some (many?) gas stations seem to be withough gas) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2PR3d76JTWE/maxresdefault.jpg "La grave crisis por la bencina en Argentina: ¿Por qué hay escasez?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PR3d76JTWE) asking if that is a media hype or a real countrywide thing? … can you go RIGHT NOW down to your next gas station and fill up w/out waiting? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/115 "2023-11-05T17:47:57Z")
Mostly media hype, also SO last week. (at this point, with the rhythm the political campaign is reaching, nobody remembers last week panic). Basically there was a mild lack of gas, media hype convinced a lot of people to go and top their tanks RIGHT NOW, which turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Anyway in a couple of days everything normalized. In fact I just came from the gas station and everything was nominal, it was a **Compressed Natural Gas** station though, not a common gasoline station. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/116 "2023-11-05T17:51:09Z")
ok thx … sounds like “technically true, but highly cherrypicked and blown out of proportion” news … or … **a nafta-run …** 😉 best of luck ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/117 "2023-11-05T17:51:42Z")
Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/118 "2023-11-10T00:43:08Z")
This is horrible, Milei’s vicepresident candidate openly defends the last military dictatorship. 30.000 died by their hand, and still the polls are tied, with the most reliable pointing to small advantage for THEM. I feel like I have heavy stone in my stomach, the next 10 days are going to be terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/119 "2023-11-12T18:18:22Z")
When I read in the Spanish [El País](https://elpais.com/argentina/2023-11-12/los-expresidentes-rajoy-pinera-duque-y-calderon-piden-el-voto-para-el-ultraderechista-milei-en-argentina.html) that (translated by DeepL, slightly corrected, original Spanish): > Eight former Latin American conservative presidents, a Spanish one and a Nobel Prize winner in Literature have expressed their support to the Argentinean presidential candidate Javier Milei, a radical right-winger and economic liberal, for the second round of elections on November 19. “Milei is a new candidate in politics, with whom we certainly have many differences, but who believes in the ideas of freedom and has a very accurate diagnosis of the country’s economic problem,” says a text signed, among others, by Chile’s Sebastián Piñera, Mexico’s Felipe Calderón, Colombia’s Iván Duque and Spain’s Mariano Rajoy, who is also joined by Nobel Literature Prize winner Mario Vargas Llosa. I do not dare to ask how it is going. Milei is being normalized already by the conservatives, what a strange thing to do! Does that mean they wished they had done what Milei says when they were in power or that they will copy him the next time they are in power? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/120 "2023-11-12T18:27:48Z")
If the _Zeitgeist_ is already right and your sole goal is to rule, then know-nothing authoritarian popularism is the ideal vehicle to deliver you to that position of power. It’s no deeper than that intellectually. Which is what those signaories are endorsing for Milei and for themselves. Sadly, the depth of shit that will land the world into is vastly, vastly more deep. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926.md?page=7)