# I fear I'm about to lose my country **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926 "2023-10-22T16:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/121 "2023-11-12T19:32:23Z")
What we seem to be seeing is yet another case of the socialdemocratic center-left getting tarred with being part of a corrupt socialism supported by intellectuals and permanent bureaucrats, and the radical ultraright claiming the ground of standing for the ways of earn-it-if-you-want-it righteousness. And, getting the support of what we used to see as “normal” conservatives, who have come to accept radical hardcore action as the way _so that the left policies can be crushed and not then be easily restored_. As I alluded earlier in the thread, part of it also looks from out here like a kind of Peronism Derangement Syndrome. They want that legacy dead and if they can’t make you stop crediting Peronism for all social justice policies, then they’ll nuke the policies themselves so there’s nothing to “owe”. (And like I said then, to think, it was already in this century when people were thinking that nationalist populist LEFT ideology (Chavez, Evo) was the rising wave in LatAm. How things turn…) ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/122 "2023-11-12T20:17:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If the _Zeitgeist_ is already right and your sole goal is to rule, then know-nothing authoritarian popularism is the ideal vehicle to deliver you to that position of power. > > … That’s what Germany’s reactionary Right (von Papen, Hugenberg et al.) thought in 1933, intending to use then discard the populist Right (Hitler). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/123 "2023-11-12T20:22:18Z")
Yep. Clarification on my quote comment. I said > If the _Zeitgeist_ is already right and … but for better clarity I should have said > If the _Zeitgeist_ is already ~~right~~ auspicious and … Point being not that the Zeitgeist is inherently politically Rightward leaning at that time. Just that it’s an era favorable to populism in general. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/124 "2023-11-13T00:36:05Z")
You are really on point with this! “Anti-Peronism” has an ancient name in Argentina : “Gorilismo” (“Gorillism”). Most non-peronists have it but it can be healthy (for example if you dislike certain ways of doing things proper of peronism or having it rubbed on your face all the time). Then you have the ones who have the really bad form of it, we could name it as you said “Peronism Derangement Syndrome” where they prefer to burn the country down to admit that Peronism is here, it’s proud and it’s never going away. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/125 "2023-11-13T00:37:03Z")
We are currently having the presidential debate, Massa is being his normal restrained self, Milei is screaming all over the place. Or so they tell me, I’m so nervous I can’t even watch. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/126 "2023-11-13T00:39:41Z")
Vargas Llosa went crazy some time ago, he was, I think always right leaning but he endorsed Bolsonaro(!!!) in Brazil in the last election, he’s gone cuckoo for cocoa pufs. On the bright side all the candidates he’s endorsed (or the last 6 or so at least) have lost, he’s yeta as fuck, mufa, jinxer, bad juju… ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/127 "2023-11-13T00:42:33Z")
Ok, Milei just said that we lost 4-0 against Germany in the 1974 world cup with goals by Cruyff (It was against Holland, which is clear when you know Cruyff’s nationality) this is a far greater misstep than it seems, we can abide madmen here but being ignorant about futbol? I’m not so sure 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/128 "2023-11-13T00:45:26Z")
If that is what stops Milei I might consider _not_ giving up watching football just yet. That is indeed really _imperdonable_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/129 "2023-11-13T00:47:04Z")
If Diego Maradona was still alive Milei would not be in a position to aspire to the presidency I can guarantee you, He would’ve talked with the press and reduced the idiot to a blubbering mass with a couple of acute observations and a derogatory nickname. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/130 "2023-11-13T00:54:51Z")
Other “interesting” (in the chinese curse sense I guess) ideas from Javier Milei in the debate: - We don’t need to trade with Brazil and China (2 of our biggest trade partners, that he hates for being “communist”) - Thinking about the welfare of the 45 million inhabitants is “off-brand altruism” - He apologized to the pope for calling him “A filthy leftist” (among other things) but he did it “internally”. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/131 "2023-11-13T00:58:19Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Or so they tell me, I’m so nervous I can’t even watch You _are_ watching! Ah, yes, I understand that morbide fascination. Be strong! One more week, then we’ll know. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/132 "2023-11-13T01:00:00Z")
I’m watching my wife watch it with headphones and report back to me the juiciest tidbits! ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/133 "2023-11-13T02:41:29Z")
Well, even right wing media are saying that Massa won the debate, Milei’s dedicated followers of course say that it’s the other way around. How much will this affect the election is anybody’s guess, there’s a climate of hope among the forces of rationality, I hope it’s warranted. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/134 "2023-11-13T12:15:26Z")
In a cosy corner of Bag End, a pretty hobbit lady sits perched on the edge of comfortable squishy sofa, enormous headphones covering her ears. Off to the side, nervously hopping from one leg to the other, is Frodo Baggins. The large TV screen shows an angry-looking man waving a chainsaw. At the sight of him, the hobbit lady furiously shakes her fist at the screen. “What? What did he say?” asks Frodo with an anguished look. The hobbit lady turns towards Frodo, moving one side of the headphones off her ear as she opens her mouth to respond. “No! Don’t!” Frodo groans, “I can’t bear it.” He starts pacing up and down Bag End, muttering and gesticulating in agitation. This was the scene in my head. I’m glad you have someone to watch it with, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/135 "2023-11-13T12:20:40Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I feel like the whole world has been shifting right in the last decade or so. I believe you’re right, and it’s a phenomenon that accompanies fear. When people feel like things are getting out of control and nothing can be done, they are very susceptible to right wing hard line propaganda. The human condition planet wide is deteriorating at an alarming rate for the many reasons that have been discussed here in many threads. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/136 "2023-11-13T12:40:02Z")
That’s so spot on that’s scary, Cosy Corner: Check. Comfortable squishy sofa: Check. Large TV screen: Check. Pretty Lady: Check! Shaking of Fists: Check. Do you have cameras in my house? 😆 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/137 "2023-11-13T12:45:07Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > The human condition planet wide is deteriorating at an alarming rate for the many reasons that have been discussed here in many threads. The propaganda selling deterioration and fear is far, far ahead of the actual reality. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/138 "2023-11-13T12:45:36Z")
I feel like it started with the 2008 Great Recession, but now it’s taken a life of it’s own and it’s become self-sustaining. Climate Change and the end of the US unipolar hegemony (whether or not that was a good thing is irrelevant, it represents change and people fear change) are also important parts of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/139 "2023-11-13T12:49:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The propaganda selling deterioration and fear is far, far ahead of the actual reality. It fuels the fear. Master manipulators (and magicians) have long realized that the perception of reality that one can create has a far greater effect than the actual reality itself. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926/140 "2023-11-13T12:51:17Z")
Exactly, that’s what I meant by “self-sustaining” they grow on fear and use that growth to provoke more fear and so on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-fear-im-about-to-lose-my-country/991926.md?page=8)