# I feel like Cassandra... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954 "2014-11-07T04:49:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/1 "2014-11-07T04:49:54Z")
… which is far more alienating than feeling like [Pauline Kael (allegedly) felt upon Nixon’s reelection](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Kael#Alleged_Nixon_quote). I’m sorry that this is so long. I thought that the struggles of what the media cluelessly called the “anti-globalization movement” ([actually global justice, or alter-globalization](http://www.booksandideas.net/A-Brief-History-of-the-Alter.html)), namely [trade justice, workers’ rights, the environment](http://www.wimklerkx.nl/EN/PROJECTS/AG.html), and so on, would define my adulthood. It made sense. In the 1980s, the First World had begun doing to itself what it had been doing to the Third World, i.e. [neoliberalism](http://www.globalissues.org/article/39/a-primer-on-neoliberalism): under a lot of talk about “free markets”, what we actually had was [welfare for corporations and the rich, and free-market austerity for everyone else](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/11/state-right-government-individualism-left). Everything that people had fought for in the 19th and 20th centuries was under attack, middle classes were shrinking, and people were fighting back. It seemed like a winnable fight; even [Eisenhower](http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/ikesocial.asp) and [Nixon](http://truth-out.org/news/item/19579-the-coming-grand-bargain-were-all-neoliberals-now) had dismissed neoliberal ideas during their presidencies, and George HW Bush very briefly did the same with his “[voodoo economics](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/270292.stm)” quip in 1980. Hell, [orthodox free-marketeers don’t like it either!](http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/managed-trade-free-trade/) Now I look around and wonder where everybody went. The issues haven’t gone away, if anything they’ve gotten worse, and yet it seems that my country, the US, is sliding into reaction. The struggles now are simply about combating reactionary developments, not creating progressive ones. See the rage at Obama, a president who (from a party which) would be considered conservative or moderate in most other industrialized countries today, and in this country’s own political landscape not long ago. I personally had very low expectations for Obama, but as for his disappointed supporters, what made them think things would not just get worse by not voting? The Democrats are bad enough, but the GOP is worse! Do people want this, as [summed up by a commenter on Ross Douthat’s latest column](http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/05/republicans-fought-the-future-and-the-future-lost/?ref=opinion&_r=1): "Evisceration of environmental regulations, rollbacks of consumer protection legislation, rollbacks of financial industry regulations, less access for poor women to reproductive services, defunding of education and science research … "? I thought we’d be talking about Third World debt, and instead we’re arguing about whether Obama is a Communist Kenyan Muslim. I thought I’d be organizing to [eliminate](http://www.democracynow.org/2005/8/16/voices_in_the_wilderness_ordered_to) the [mass-murderous sanctions on Iraq](http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674035713), not screaming myself hoarse protesting a criminal invasion of that country that killed hundreds of thousands more. I never thought so many people would seriously entertain the idea of [deliberately engineering fiscal train wrecks](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rollingstone.com%2Fpolitics%2Fnews%2Fthe-great-kansas-tea-party-disaster-20141023&ei=8EZcVKfXJe7fsASLuYH4DQ&usg=AFQjCNFopEfkq8ZOLiLgCK73d5jNjCk4gg&sig2=Al94BQxpVrBYuJRbqcjdlw) in order to privatize education, health care, and the like; and bring about the eviscerations mentioned above. I hoped we still wouldn’t be arguing about evolution, contraception, church/state separation, the causes of the Civil War (historians don’t), and even the _teaching of the topic of climate change_. If the US absolutely had to [go through](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFMQFjAK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2Fonthisday%2Fhi%2Fdates%2Fstories%2Fjuly%2F23%2Fnewsid_2515000%2F2515819.stm&ei=2EpcVMvXLJbdsASwqYGYBg&usg=AFQjCNHr5agBrEdaNm2uu68QKFyqYbsQZw&sig2=km62FfZgmZYvi7xSwiGFzQ) the [worst](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEIQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.historylearningsite.co.uk%2Fgeneral_francisco_franco.htm&ei=FktcVMLrPOrasATtt4KAAw&usg=AFQjCNF-Xhuak8J6s34GcbAOMqRt4ISAYw&sig2=hYYr4rZwxdQULqJcO9PyPA) of neoliberalism for people to wake up and combat it, a la [Greece, Spain](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/06/centre-austerity-britain-europe-ireland-spain-eu), and [much of](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-11446466) [Latin America](http://www.cispes.org/), that would be one thing. The problem is, we don’t have that kind of time any more. I can’t understand why environmental issues aren’t of paramount importance for more voters. Do I have to spell it out here? Isn’t it obvious? It’s frustrating enough when voters are only willing to protect their own privileges without displaying a shred of empathy. It’s worse when their own short-term concerns, legitimate or otherwise, _override medium-term issues of their own (and their children’s) survival!_ I’m really angry, exasperated, and upset right now. I’m afraid for what the future holds. I’m finding it hard to even think about anything else, and thus I can’t comprehend the vapidity and selfishness all around me. My family is going through considerable turmoil at the moment, and I’m much more upset (and baffled) about the state of the world. I don’t want to be [Cassandra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra_%28metaphor%29). I don’t want to say “I told you so.” Do I have a choice? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/2 "2014-11-07T05:21:01Z")
It’s very sad when the things you consider important aren’t important to other people, that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/3 "2014-11-07T05:46:35Z")
You are a baby boomer and a female, right? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/4 "2014-11-07T05:48:33Z")
Eh. Shit happens. Don’t sweat it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/5 "2014-11-07T06:47:10Z")
Who needs slave labor when the whole world can be made into wage slaves with every lowering wages and higher taxes? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/6 "2014-11-07T11:38:58Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I thought that the struggles of what the media cluelessly called the “anti-globalization movement” ([actually global justice, or alter-globalization](http://www.booksandideas.net/A-Brief-History-of-the-Alter.html)), namely [trade justice, workers’ rights, the environment](http://www.wimklerkx.nl/EN/PROJECTS/AG.html), and so on, would define my adulthood. It made sense. > [@](#): > > Now I look around and wonder where everybody went. > [@](#): > > I thought we’d be talking about Third World debt, and instead we’re arguing about whether Obama is a Communist Kenyan Muslim. > [@](#): > > I thought I’d be organizing to [eliminate](http://www.democracynow.org/2005/8/16/voices_in_the_wilderness_ordered_to) the [mass-murderous sanctions on Iraq](http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674035713), not screaming myself hoarse protesting a criminal invasion of that country that killed hundreds of thousands more. > [@](#): > > I never thought so many people would seriously entertain the idea of [deliberately engineering fiscal train wrecks](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rollingstone.com%2Fpolitics%2Fnews%2Fthe-great-kansas-tea-party-disaster-20141023&ei=8EZcVKfXJe7fsASLuYH4DQ&usg=AFQjCNFopEfkq8ZOLiLgCK73d5jNjCk4gg&sig2=Al94BQxpVrBYuJRbqcjdlw) in order to privatize education, health care, and the like; and bring about the eviscerations mentioned above. If you’re that bad at predictions, doesn’t that make you the _opposite_ of Cassandra? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/7 "2014-11-07T13:23:08Z")
I can see where it would be frustrating living in a country where everyone else is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/8 "2014-11-07T14:10:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I can see where it would be frustrating living in a country where everyone else is stupid. OP is spot-on correct, but mostly just attracts snark. The SDMB isn’t what it used to be (and maybe never was :rolleyes: ). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/9 "2014-11-07T14:16:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > OP is spot-on correct, but mostly just attracts snark. That’s because it’s not correct; it’s silly. > [@](#): > > The SDMB isn’t what it used to be (and maybe never was :rolleyes: ). No, it’s been like this for years - the lefties have a fit of the vapors every time the GOP does well in an election. Anti-globalization and the Occupy movement are marginalized because they are ridiculous caricatures of political and economic thought. They don’t get any traction because they don’t deserve any. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/10 "2014-11-07T14:21:06Z")
I’m actually quite optimistic. Things keep getting better and better (and more and more liberal) over the long-term, despite the “two steps forward, one step back” we often experience. People are less religious. More people come “out” as atheists and the like. People are more accepting of gays. More and more people have health care. More and more support pot legalization. The minimum wage is increasing in a lot of places and these increases are popularly supported. Lots of things suck, but I think things are better and more liberal in many ways then ever before. In particular, social conservatism seems to be circling the drain. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/11 "2014-11-07T14:37:16Z")
Isn’t social conservatism something that just naturally lessens over the years, at least over the last century or so? Or perhaps “lessens” isn’t the right word. More along the lines of the goalposts moving, which I don’t mean in the logical fallacy context, but I cannot think of a better term. When was the last time one could accurately say the US became more socially conservative? The Reagan years? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/12 "2014-11-07T14:46:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m actually quite optimistic. Things keep getting better and better (and more and more liberal) over the long-term, despite the “two steps forward, one step back” we often experience. People are less religious. More people come “out” as atheists and the like. People are more accepting of gays. More and more people have health care. More and more support pot legalization. The minimum wage is increasing in a lot of places and these increases are popularly supported. > > Lots of things suck, but I think things are better and more liberal in many ways then ever before. In particular, social conservatism seems to be circling the drain. I agree. We are much better off than we were 20 years ago. > [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s been like this for years - the lefties have a fit of the vapors every time the GOP does well in an election. I don’t often agree with you, but on this you are absolutely correct. Too many political junkies, I guess! ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/13 "2014-11-07T14:51:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m actually quite optimistic. Things keep getting better and better (and more and more liberal) over the long-term, despite the “two steps forward, one step back” we often experience. People are less religious. More people come “out” as atheists and the like. People are more accepting of gays. More and more people have health care. More and more support pot legalization. The minimum wage is increasing in a lot of places and these increases are popularly supported. > > Lots of things suck, but I think things are better and more liberal in many ways then ever before. In particular, social conservatism seems to be circling the drain. This. +1. When I become discouraged, I remind myself that the target Fox News viewers are dying off. Lemmytheseal, stop watching the news for a bit. The coverage and extrapolations from the election can send you over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/14 "2014-11-07T15:20:44Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > When I become discouraged, I remind myself that the target Fox News viewers are dying off. Oh yeah - FoxNews is in [big trouble](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/fox-news-nabs-historic-cable-736624), no doubt about that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/15 "2014-11-07T15:23:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Oh yeah - FoxNews is in [big trouble](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/fox-news-nabs-historic-cable-736624), no doubt about that. > > Regards, > Shodan With any luck, the 18-49 year olds will go back on their meds… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/16 "2014-11-07T15:31:43Z")
Or else the lefties will get a grip and stop whistling past the graveyard. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/17 "2014-11-07T15:33:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Oh yeah - FoxNews is in [big trouble](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/fox-news-nabs-historic-cable-736624), no doubt about that. > > Regards, > Shodan Fox does well because political junkie types tend to be conservative. People on the left aren’t into politics so consistently. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/18 "2014-11-07T15:46:14Z")
No, Fox does well because there is much less competition on the right side of the media. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/19 "2014-11-07T15:57:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, Fox does well because there is much less competition on the right side of the media. > > Regards, > Shodan That’s not a rebuttal. The people on the right are CONSISTENT in supporting Fox because they’re more keenly into politics. People on the left are not. Plus, I give Fox some credit in doing a good job presenting regular, non-political, news. I’ve been known to tune into them during the midday hours. Or at least I used to before they launched that silly “outnumbered” show. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954/20 "2014-11-07T15:59:07Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > My family is going through considerable turmoil at the moment, and I’m much more upset (and baffled) about the state of the world. Get away from CNN and take care of your family. You are of no use to society if you don’t get your own shit together. I’m being completely serious. It’s not normal to freak out over election results and Third World debt at the expense of your family - and you ARE freaking out; you aren’t a Cassandra, you’re an anxiety attack waiting to happen. (I am not sure what Greek mythological figure symbolizes anxiety problems; the word panic comes from Pan, but only because he liked frightening others.) That’s indicative of personal problems, and those are the first problems you need to solve. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-like-cassandra/703954.md?page=2)