# I figured out that Brits call their lawns "gardens" what do they call place where veggies grow? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 3, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881 "2013-03-03T03:25:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/41 "2013-03-04T09:16:09Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > A paddock is a fenced area of land used to grow livestock or crops. In general, a paddock can range from 1 to 15,000 Ha and beyond. It can be cultivated (think heavy-duty machinery to do so) or it can be just native vegetation which is the fodder for critters like cows and sheep. I think the post you quoted was irony: an implication that American yards are so large they would qualify as a paddock to you and I. šŸ˜ƒ But anyway, Iā€™d always understood the word paddock to be Scottish in origin but apparently it comes from Middle English - alteration of Middle English parrok, from Old English pearroc, from Medieval Latin parricus. Live and learn. For anyone slightly puzzled, an Australian/New Zealand paddock (which can be quite vast) is roughly equivalent to the British field. However I doubt any Brit would comfortably describe 500 fenced ha (1200 acres) as a field because it wonā€™t be lush green grass surrounded by hedgerows - which is what most people think of as a field. > [@penultima\_thule](#): > > +1 > > Weā€™ll leave the distinction of ā€œThe Long Paddockā€ to another day. Ahā€¦the long acre, know it well, fenced and grazed it many a time in my boyhood. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/42 "2013-03-04T11:04:50Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Hmm, good point, I guess back-to-backs do have yards. Or ā€˜backyardsā€™. [Back-to-backs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-to-back_houses), by definition, do _not_ have backyards (or gardens). Back-to-backs are terraced houses built so that they do not only share their side walls with the adjacent houses, but their back walls too: the back wall of your house will also be the back wall of someone elseā€™s house, that faces out onto the next street. In effect, back-to-backs were built so that an entire block was a single building, divided into multiple houses such that each had its own front door and front windows, but no back door or back or side windows. There was no place for any back yards, although on some designs there might be a communal (paved over) yard down teh street, which, originally, would have housed communal toilets, as the houses, when built, did not have indoor plumbing. (However, I think all back-to-backs that still survive have long since had indoor plumbing installed.) I do not know if the houses depicted in _Coronation Street_ are actual back-to-backs. They may merely be terraced houses with (paved) backyards, what would originally have been a significant step up in quality and price from back-to-backs. _Coronation Street_ is set in a fictionalized version of Salford, I believe. However, when I lived in Leeds for many years (up to about 20 years ago) there were still many streets of true back-to-back houses that were still in use, and I dare say many still exist. > [@SanVito](#): > > [What a Brit sees when you say ā€˜yardā€™.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2009/aug/30/jaycee-lee-dugard-kidnap-usa#/?picture=352315434&index=0) > > [What we see when you say ā€˜gardenā€™.](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=garden&hl=en&rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB503GB504&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UmI0Uez5CeOn0QXMjoC4BQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1499&bih=1090#hl=en&rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB503GB504&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=+garden&oq=+garden&gs_l=img.3..0l10.12788.14093.1.14235.2.2.0.0.0.0.56.103.2.2.0...0.0...1c.1.5.img.XrastS8JEMQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43148975,d.d2k&fp=d55fe55f17aa2a30&biw=1499&bih=1126) Yes, that is very true. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/43 "2013-03-04T11:17:07Z")
There are some National Trust preserved back-to backs in Birmingham where the front terrace does face the street, but the back terrace faces a courtyard which contains the privies and communal wash house. So those do have ā€œyardsā€. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/44 "2013-03-04T12:14:02Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > [Back-to-backs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-to-back_houses), by definition, do _not_ have backyards (or gardens). Back-to-backs are terraced houses built so that they do not only share their side walls with the adjacent houses, but their back walls too: the back wall of your house will also be the back wall of someone elseā€™s house, that faces out onto the next street. In effect, back-to-backs were built so that an entire block was a single building, divided into multiple houses such that each had its own front door and front windows, but no back door or back or side windows. There was no place for any back yards, although on some designs there might be a communal (paved over) yard down teh street, which, originally, would have housed communal toilets, as the houses, when built, did not have indoor plumbing. (However, I think all back-to-backs that still survive have long since had indoor plumbing installed.) > > I do not know if the houses depicted in _Coronation Street_ are actual back-to-backs. They may merely be terraced houses with (paved) backyards, what would originally have been a significant step up in quality and price from back-to-backs. _Coronation Street_ is set in a fictionalized version of Salford, I believe. However, when I lived in Leeds for many years (up to about 20 years ago) there were still many streets of true back-to-back houses that were still in use, and I dare say many still exist. > Yes, that is very true. I thought a back-to-back was also a house where the yard or the garden backed directly into another homeā€™s yard or garden, without a road or alleyway in between. Of course, the word for what we in London call an alley or alleyway is different in the Corrie area tooā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/45 "2013-03-04T12:18:05Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I thought a back-to-back was also a house where the yard or the garden backed directly into another homeā€™s yard or garden, without a road or alleyway in between. Thatā€™s just a standard terraced house. Back-to-backs are a subset of terraced houses. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/46 "2013-03-04T12:23:38Z")
This link takes you to the National Trust back-to-back website. There are a couple of pictures on there that show the courtyard and one which shows the terrace that faces the street:- [http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/birmingham-back-to-backs/](http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/birmingham-back-to-backs/) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/47 "2013-03-04T13:00:17Z")
> [@Rayne\_Man](#): > > There are some National Trust preserved back-to backs in Birmingham where the front terrace does face the street, but the back terrace faces a courtyard which contains the privies and communal wash house. So those do have ā€œyardsā€. I said there may be communal yards, but if an individual house has a back yard it is not a back-to-back (by definition). I think in the cases you are talking about, the house on one side has its front door opening onto the street, and the house built on the back of it has its front door opening on the communal courtyard. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > I thought a back-to-back was also a house where the yard or the garden backed directly into another homeā€™s yard or garden, without a road or alleyway in between. You are mistaken. (Or, if there are people who use ā€œback-to-backā€ to mean this, they are conflating two _very_ different sorts of housing.) Heck, most middle class detached or semi-detached houses in Britain probably have their garden backing directly onto another houseā€™s garden, with no alleyway. These can be quite posh. The house I live in currently is terraced, with a garden behind backing onto another houseā€™s garden, with no alley. No way is it a back-to-back. It is several cuts above the actual back-to-backs I am familiar with from Leeds. A back-to-back is a much inferior form of housing where, as I said, the back wall of the house itself (as well as the side walls) is shared. Many British towns may never have had any, and many that once existed have long since been torn down as slums, so many British people may not be familiar with them, but they were once common in the northern industrial cities. [Here is a Google maps view of some back to back terraces in Leeds](http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=53.809426,-1.572591&spn=0.00166,0.002245&t=w&z=19). It is an area I am familiar with. You can see the communal yards about every four houses along the block, which would once have been where the toilet facilities were. It looks like they are still used communally for dustbins. (I am fairly sure I also remember seeing back-to-backs in Leeds where the whole block was, effectively, a single building, with no yards at all, but perhaps those were built with indoor plumbing originally.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/48 "2013-03-04T15:01:57Z")
Note that that Google image search for ā€œgardenā€ returns pictures of particularly beautiful or photogenic gardens, not of what Americans would think of as ā€œtypicalā€ gardens. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/49 "2013-03-04T16:21:17Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I thought a back-to-back was also a house where the yard or the garden backed directly into another homeā€™s yard or garden, without a road or alleyway in between. > > Of course, the word for what we in London call an alley or alleyway is different in the Corrie area tooā€¦ Iā€™m with you, and the [OED agrees](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/back-to-back). > [@](#): > > Definition of **back-to-back** > _adjective > 1_British (of houses) built in a continuous terrace backing on to another terrace, with a party wall or a narrow alley between: rows of back-to-back houses ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/50 "2013-03-04T16:53:04Z")
Surely that OED definition contradicts **SciFiSam**. A back-to-back has no garden or yard. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/51 "2013-03-04T16:54:45Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > Surely that OED definition contradicts **SciFiSam**. A back-to-back has no garden or yard. Aah, yes, youā€™re right, I had read it wrong. Thereā€™s no back yard, but possibly an alley, in some places. Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/52 "2013-03-04T17:02:01Z")
Itā€™s odd how differently Americans use the term garden. As a noun we think of it as a vegetable patch. A couple rows of corn, some purple hull peas, melons, tomatoes, and squash. A typical Southern garden. As a verb, gardening is the actual work in the entire yard. Sounds weird but fertilizing the lawn or trimming the shrubs is gardening. Just like tilling, seeding, and hoeing is gardening. \ I know the word originally came from the English. Itā€™s meaning just got altered a bit in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/53 "2013-03-04T18:57:49Z")
Fair enough, back-to-back is more meaningful as a term if it means the buildings themselves back onto each other. I have heard it used otherwise, though, and according to the earlier wiki link Iā€™m not alone. The terraces Iā€™m used to mostly have an alley or road separating the gardens. ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/54 "2013-03-04T20:29:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Itā€™s odd how differently Americans use the term garden. As a noun we think of it as a vegetable patch. A couple rows of corn, some purple hull peas, melons, tomatoes, and squash. A typical Southern garden. > > As a verb, gardening is the actual work in the entire yard. Sounds weird but fertilizing the lawn or trimming the shrubs is gardening. Just like tilling, seeding, and hoeing is gardening. > > \ I know the word originally came from the English. Itā€™s meaning just got altered a bit in the U.S. Iā€™m wondering about that ā€œweā€ in your second sentence. I am certainly American and I do not think of a garden as a vegetable patch. It _ **can** _ be a vegetable patch, but it could just as easily be a flower garden. I call the plantings around my home a garden. These plantings are composed of annual and perennial flowers, ornamental foliage plants and shrubs. Other than a few container tomatoes, I do not grow vegetables. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/55 "2013-03-04T21:25:55Z")
> [@Monstera\_deliciosa](#): > > Iā€™m wondering about that ā€œweā€ in your second sentence. I am certainly American and I do not think of a garden as a vegetable patch. It _ **can** _ be a vegetable patch, but it could just as easily be a flower garden. A vegetable garden is probably the first thing Iā€™d think of (as in ā€œMr. McGregorā€™s gardenā€ in _The Tale of Peter Rabbit_), but flower gardens are also common (and herb gardens and rock gardens arenā€™t unheard of). Either way, though, itā€™s typical for Americans to have a _section_ of their (back) yard set aside as a garden. Plus, I wouldnā€™t use the word ā€œgardeningā€ to refer to fertilizing the lawn or trimming the shrubs. Iā€™d probably call it ā€œyard work,ā€ if I needed a word to refer to it. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/56 "2013-03-04T23:42:52Z")
If it was the typical (around here) back yard, with a deck , patio or (more rarely) porch up against the house and then an expanse of lawn with flowers and shrubs restricted to the perimeter, I would call it the ā€œyardā€. If there were flowers, shrubs, fountains, paved areas, furniture, etc scattered throughout the lawn , I would call the whole thing a ā€œgardenā€ ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/57 "2013-03-05T01:10:30Z")
And donā€™t forget kindergartens. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/58 "2013-03-05T08:08:39Z")
Where they grow cabbage patch kids. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/59 "2013-03-05T11:50:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > A vegetable garden is probably the first thing Iā€™d think of (as in ā€œMr. McGregorā€™s gardenā€ in _The Tale of Peter Rabbit_), but flower gardens are also common (and herb gardens and rock gardens arenā€™t unheard of). Either way, though, itā€™s typical for Americans to have a _section_ of their (back) yard set aside as a garden. > > Plus, I wouldnā€™t use the word ā€œgardeningā€ to refer to fertilizing the lawn or trimming the shrubs. Iā€™d probably call it ā€œyard work,ā€ if I needed a word to refer to it. Yeah, Iā€™ve never heard an American refer to cutting the grass and trimming the bushes as ā€œgardening.ā€ Thatā€™s ā€œyard work.ā€ ā€œGardeningā€ is looking after flowers or vegetables. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881/60 "2013-03-05T12:31:48Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > ā€¦ herb gardens and rock gardens arenā€™t unheard ofā€¦ If weā€™re talking Anglo/American linguistic differences - what about Americans dropping the ā€˜hā€™ on 'erbs. That always sounds so strange to me. And, frankly, French. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-figured-out-that-brits-call-their-lawns-gardens-what-do-they-call-place-where-veggies-grow/651881.md?page=4)