# I finally told my oldest daughter I'm an atheist. Now she's upset and crying. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 26, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254 "2011-05-26T03:59:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/201 "2011-05-28T20:03:08Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Yes, but your daughter asked you a question, making her a willing participant. But now you’re regretting giving an honest answer, and even considered going to church. That’s not the Dio we see around these parts. This, I agree with. Especially the going to church part. It’s one thing to withhold your opinion, but going to church to put on some kind of fake piety show would be tantamount to lying. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/202 "2011-05-28T20:13:06Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Why is it okay to teach religion, but not the lack thereof, to children of any age? This is a strawman since what I was pointing out was that it is hardly surprising that Dio would treat a child differently than posters on this board. Which is what you were pitting him for right here in this thread. Ever heard of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy? We teach children about those. Children are exposed to lots of nonsense, they mostly seem to turn out fine. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/203 "2011-05-28T20:16:03Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > This is a strawman since what I was pointing out was that it is hardly surprising that Dio would treat a child differently than posters on this board. …which is what my non-rhetorical question pertained to. > [@Implicit](#): > > Ever heard of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy? We teach children about those. Children are exposed to lots of nonsense, they mostly seem to turn out fine. The difference is that adults (generally, I hope) still don’t believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. I trust you realize there’s a huge distinction, considering the majority of adults still believe in God. I don’t see why you would tell a a child differently than you would an adult when it comes to religion–my parents didn’t, and I appreciate them all the more for it. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/204 "2011-05-28T20:26:02Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > This, I agree with. Especially the going to church part. It’s one thing to withhold your opinion, but going to church to put on some kind of fake piety show would be tantamount to lying. No, using the example I just gave above to Red Barchetta, it’s the same as an adult pretending to believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, so by that standard parents lie to their children constantly. > [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > The difference is that adults (generally, I hope) still don’t believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. I trust you realize there’s a huge distinction, considering the majority of adults still believe in God. I don’t see why you would tell a a child differently than you would an adult when it comes to religion–my parents didn’t, and I appreciate them all the more for it. From the child’s perspective it is the same thing. Parents do pretend to believe in Santa Claus or the ruse would fail. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/205 "2011-05-28T20:29:49Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > From the child’s perspective it is the same thing. Parents do pretend to believe in Santa Claus or the ruse would fail. No, it’s not. In the case of Santa, the child is presented with evidence that it’s fake, by way of the parents’ testimony (if it even takes that long). Religion stays with most people forever, as it takes root at very fundamentals of people’s lives, shaping how they live and perceive the world, in ways a fairy who takes teeth and a jolly fat guy who delivers presents once a year does not. They are not at all analogous scenarios. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/206 "2011-05-28T21:09:18Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So does Catholicism teach about hell or not? > > Seems like DtC’s daughter was taught about it, Obsidian mentions it, you say you were learning about purgatory. > > Sounds like Catholic teaching is very much concerned with depicting such places as real, rather than symbolic. So it begs the question. If you have heaven and purgatory is there not a need for a hell as well? And so it seems unsurprising that it is a concern for children. Yes, it teaches about Hell – that’s not what I said. Catholicism does not teach that those who aren’t Christians go to Hell. Hell was pretty much for those who were truly evil (murderers, rapists, child molestors, etc). Purgatory was kind of a temporary Hell, kind of like a half-way spot. You’re not nearly bad enough to go to Hell, but you’ve still done some crap, so you need to spend some time here. Think of it like detention. 😉 Unlike **TreacherousCretin** , I went to Catholic school in 1980s-early 90s, so this was post-Vatican II. I think the only time I was ever smacked by a nun (or any teacher) was in first grade. And that was because my friends and I were running around at lunch time and banging on the doors of the band room. We each got a light smack on the butt and then the three of us weren’t allowed to sit together at lunch anymore. That’s about it. It was always more the “sheeps and the goats”, help those in need, do unto others, the Good Samaritan, etc. That’s not to say it was all candies and roses, but it wasn’t, well, Hell. I went to a Catholic college as well, although one that was super liberal. I’m not a practicing Catholic anymore, but that’s not because I feel “abused”. (And no, I’m not going into my beliefs here. I’m simply going to describe my experience with a Catholic school. That’s it.) ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/207 "2011-05-29T04:43:54Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Yes, but your daughter asked you a question, making her a willing participant. But now you’re regretting giving an honest answer, and even considered going to church. That’s not the Dio we see around these parts. One thing I’ve noticed about Dio is that he seems unflinchingly, unfailingly devoted to his family. That, more than his debate style or political position, is what sticks in my mind when I think about him. His daughter was crying. If there were someone I loved with the sort of devotion that he loves his daughter, I would consider doing almost _anything_ to stop them from feeling that kind of pain. That sort of love and consideration seems perfectly in line with the Dio we see around these parts. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/208 "2011-05-29T06:24:04Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > His daughter was crying. If there were someone I loved with the sort of devotion that he loves his daughter, I would consider doing almost _anything_ to stop them from feeling that kind of pain. That sort of love and consideration seems perfectly in line with the Dio we see around these parts. Yes, but that doesn’t account for the 11 years he spent raising her contrary to how he presents himself here. ETA: I’m sure Dio’s a fine parent. I just find it odd that he’ll lay into someone with facts for believing something he thinks to be untrue, but raises his daughter to believe the same beliefs he counters here. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/209 "2011-05-29T07:18:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Unlike **TreacherousCretin** , I went to Catholic school in 1980s-early 90s, so this was post-Vatican II. I think the only time I was ever smacked by a nun (or any teacher) was in first grade. And that was because my friends and I were running around at lunch time and banging on the doors of the band room. We each got a light smack on the butt and then the three of us weren’t allowed to sit together at lunch anymore. That’s about it. Luxury. I saw fellow Second-Graders knocked repeatedly on the tops of their heads with the edge of a tightly stacked brick of flash cards (by Sister Dominica); Fourth-Graders hit on top of the head with a fist filled with keys (brass knuckles, in effect, by Sister Marie Lucille); In sixth grade I was slapped HARD across the face (by Sister Catherine); Seven years behind me, in 1964, my sister saw a fellow First Grader have her nose broken by being violently slammed to the floor face first with a hard, unexpected shove to back of the head (by Sister Elvira Marie). In every case, the crime had been “speaking out of turn” (whispering surrepititously) to another kid. The third-world country where these events took place was San Diego, California. . ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/210 "2011-05-29T10:24:04Z")
Anyone else keep reading this thread as being about an artist? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/211 "2011-05-30T01:09:59Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I’m also a closeted atheist to my family and I really have no idea how to communicate it to them (if at all). They know I’m an “extremely lapsed Catholic”, but that’s the extent of it. That’s my situation. Luckily my sister confided in me that she also “lost her faith”, my husband was not raised particularly religious and is of the school “I don’t believe, but most importantly, I don’t care” and some of my friends share my point of view. My daughter is so far totally oblivious to religion (she is almost 6). At some point I considered sending my child to a Catholic school, despite our atheism, I am glad I came to my senses. > [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > It [hell] was drilled into us in terrifying detail about how bad it would hurt, with emphasis on helping us appreciate just what “eternity” and “forever” really meant. (“After a year for every grain of sand on every beach in the world, it’s still only just beginning.” A line I’ve never forgotten.) And it was what would happen to us for crimes like intentionally skipping Mass on Sunday. > > We were ten years old. Yes, I’m damaged goods, and yes I’m bitter. > > . This. I would lie awake in bed terrified of the darkness, of dying in my sleep, thinking about tortured saints (we learned about that in technicolor and lots of details). A 7 year old has no business wondering about torture and hell. In my school only boys were hit. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/212 "2011-05-31T18:32:11Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Yes, but that doesn’t account for the 11 years he spent raising her contrary to how he presents himself here. > > ETA: I’m sure Dio’s a fine parent. I just find it odd that he’ll lay into someone with facts for believing something he thinks to be untrue, but raises his daughter to believe the same beliefs he counters here. From post #58, the first two paragraphs pretty much explained the situation that **Dio** agreed to: > [@](#): > > Way back when my wife first said she wanted to baptize our kids and send them to Catholic school, I was really against it, and told her I didn’t want them brainwashed. She kept pushing. I tried to get her to compromise with UU, but she said it had to be RCC. Part of that comes from her parents who are conservative Catholics (at least her mom is. Her dad privately told me he doesn’t really buy it). > > It was important to my wife. I love my wife, and we made an agreement that she could baptize them and send them to Catholic school, but when they were older (“older” being vaguely described, but essentially understood as when they were teenagers), I could tell them my OWN feelings, expose them to atheism (as well as any other alternate viewpoints they might be interested in), and tell them that they ultimately had the right and freedom to decide for themselves. Until then, I was supposed to stay out of the way, and I have. I’ve mostly just been quiet and kept my mouth shut. Last night my daughter was asking questions she hadn’t asked before about my religious upbringing and my beliefs, and I told her. I thought she was ready to hear it and would be able to handle it. That was the precursor to the situation he’s in. I stated in #115: > [@](#): > > This situation seems to be more about respect rather than religion. A lot of posters here are questioning Dio’s ability to “tell the truth” early in his daughter’s life, but fail to realize what a strain it would create on the relationship between him and his wife. Yeah, the wife’s demands early on with raising the kids w.r.t. the RCC teachings and Dio’s agreement to it early on seemed shortsighted and unrealistic, but Dio did it out of love and respect for his wife. If he had a do-over, I’m pretty sure he would not agree to it totally, if at all. But Monday morning quarterbacking isn’t really helping his situation at all. I’m pretty sure there is going to be some resentments building on both sides of the relationship. Dio probably already resents the agreement he made a while back and it has been eating away at him for years now; to see the daughter immersed in something that he doesn’t believe in. I also suspect that if the daughter loses her beliefs in God, then Dio’s wife will become very resentful that Dio did not keep his agreement, especially if the daughter rejects the RCC teachings completely. > > Dio, as RTF suggested, I too agree that counseling is a great idea to address the issues that have bubbled to surface. This should have been thoroughly addressed even before the kids were born (to me it seemed that the issue was merely postponed when you relented to the wife 10 years ago…it was not addressed thoroughly, and your daughter is paying for that years later with confusion and doubt); it might have been a dealbreaker even before marriage if it was discussed at all. Right now though, counseling would be helpful by just coming to some sort of agreement and how to handle future issues in a respectful manner to avoid future resentments. This is the key to keep the family together. It would make it easier for your two younger kids when they begin to ask questions and the two of you already know how to answer them without creating the situation you just experienced. > > As for the thread, it’s not about “Who is right” anymore; it is more about respect for the family’s beliefs and/or non-beliefs. Then, **Spark420** asked THE QUESTION in #122: > [@](#): > > Dio, do you take it out on the board because you’re stifled at home? **Dio** ’s response in #125: > [@](#): > > I think so, yeah. I don’t have any place to vent IRL. So, there it is… **Dio** in a nutshell. It pretty much explains the way he is on this board and now I know Dio’s state of mind when I read any future postings from him w.r.t. religion. He’s trying to honor something at home that creates resentment, and then transfers that energy to the boards. Hey, I’ve seen worse things than this, and I don’t blame him that he values his family more than a bunch of posters who don’t fully appreciate the position he’s in. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/213 "2011-06-01T11:18:43Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Luxury. > > I saw fellow Second-Graders knocked repeatedly on the tops of their heads with the edge of a tightly stacked brick of flash cards (by Sister Dominica); Fourth-Graders hit on top of the head with a fist filled with keys (brass knuckles, in effect, by Sister Marie Lucille); > In sixth grade I was slapped HARD across the face (by Sister Catherine); Seven years behind me, in 1964, my sister saw a fellow First Grader have her nose broken by being violently slammed to the floor face first with a hard, unexpected shove to back of the head (by Sister Elvira Marie). > > In every case, the crime had been “speaking out of turn” (whispering surrepititously) to another kid. > > The third-world country where these events took place was San Diego, California. > > . Ahhhh, Full contact Catholicism. Women who hated children and pretty much everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/214 "2011-06-01T18:40:45Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > So, there it is… **Dio** in a nutshell. It pretty much explains the way he is on this board and now I know Dio’s state of mind when I read any future postings from him w.r.t. religion. He’s trying to honor something at home that creates resentment, and then transfers that energy to the boards. Hey, I’ve seen worse things than this, and I don’t blame him that he values his family more than a bunch of posters who don’t fully appreciate the position he’s in. Explanations aren’t justifications. I can respect his situation, but not honor it. These problems could have and should have been addressed long ago, as Dio himself admits. It’s not fair that people here have to endure his acting out. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/215 "2011-06-01T19:39:25Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Explanations aren’t justifications. I can respect his situation, but not honor it. These problems could have and should have been addressed long ago, as Dio himself admits. It’s not fair that people here have to endure his acting out. I suspect that the situation at home has nothing to do with how he posts here. You’re putting your own spin onto this. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/216 "2011-06-01T19:40:03Z")
I understand that his demeanor (at times) is not justifiable, but at least I now know how to address his posts, which will be far easier now than other posters that are still on my “WTF?!?” list with their posting behaviors. We all need some thick skin to be on this board anyways, so…fair or not, we can deal with his staunch defensive behaviors. Having a personal crisis like Dio’s shows a more human side to him which is refreshing, whereas there are other posters here that constantly offend without rhyme or reason as to why they do what they do. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/217 "2011-06-01T19:42:58Z")
For the record, when I agreed my home situation might be the reason I “vented on the board,” I was only talking about religious topics. I can be a lot athier here than irl. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/218 "2011-06-01T19:44:43Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I suspect that the situation at home has nothing to do with how he posts here. You’re putting your own spin onto this. I am putting my own spin on this more so than **RB** , out of personal experience that has some parallels to **Dio** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/219 "2011-06-01T19:53:42Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I suspect that the situation at home has nothing to do with how he posts here. You’re putting your own spin onto this. Did you post just to disagree? I didn’t spin anything–I commented in regards to the person who suggested it was affecting how he posts here. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/220 "2011-06-01T20:29:53Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Wow, very helpful advice, Alessan. > mmm Might not be helpful for **Dio** , but it could be for other dopers reading the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254.md?page=12)