# I finally told my oldest daughter I'm an atheist. Now she's upset and crying. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 26, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254 "2011-05-26T03:59:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/61 "2011-05-26T15:15:06Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I assume you don’t believe this. Of course not, but it’s a truthful with regards to Catholic doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/62 "2011-05-26T15:23:16Z")
So, have you thought about trying to change your approach with the younger kids? Any ideas on how to negotiate a more religiously tolerant household, or at least one where the tolerance within matches the diversity within? This seems like it’s a time bomb not just for your eldest, but for all the other kids and possibly your relationship overall. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/63 "2011-05-26T15:23:31Z")
What was the purpose of telling her? What did you hope to achieve? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/64 "2011-05-26T15:30:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was important to my wife. I love my wife, and we made an agreement that she could baptize them and send them to Catholic school, but when they were older (“older” being vaguely described, but essentially understood as when they were teenagers), I could tell them my OWN feelings, expose them to atheism (as well as any other alternate viewpoints they might be interested in), and tell them that they ultimately had the right and freedom to decide for themselves. I pity a small child who has to debate with you, but that’s not respectful of your own views and I’m a little surprised you’ve put up with it. Leaving room for religion is one thing (though it’s tough for me to stomach that as a concept), but it’s another to have to shut up completely. If this leads to things being more open in your house, it will probably be better for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/65 "2011-05-26T15:37:20Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > So, have you thought about trying to change your approach with the younger kids? Any ideas on how to negotiate a more religiously tolerant household, or at least one where the tolerance within matches the diversity within? This seems like it’s a time bomb not just for your eldest, but for all the other kids and possibly your relationship overall. The other kids are 5 and 2. The 2 year old obviously doesn’t know the difference. The 5 year old is just finishing kindergarten and has only a rudimentary grasp of what God is. If we put them in public school next year, the religious tnor in the household will probably fade a lot. We’ll see. I think my wife was starting to have some misgivings about Catholic school herself. My wife is a very liberal Catholic and doesn’t cotton to some of the things the kids have been bringing home. I just ask her what did she expect. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/66 "2011-05-26T15:40:06Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > What was the purpose of telling her? What did you hope to achieve? I was trying to achieve truthfulness. She asked questions. I was trying to achieve not lying. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/67 "2011-05-26T15:43:10Z")
Dio: You did the right thing. You told her the truth as you saw it. Making an 11 year old girl cry isn’t that hard, so don’t ascribe life- or worldview-threatening consequences to it. The sooner you get her away from that horrid environment that is filling her with ignorant nonsense, the healthier she will be both mentally & emotionally. Keep that idea firmly in mind whenever you consider your next moves. We have to live with human nature as it is, including some people’s desire for faith in some otherwordly existance and other’s desire for anger & domination & violence. That doesn’t mean we need to cheerlead for those parts of our nature. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/68 "2011-05-26T15:51:01Z")
That’s too bad. I’m glad things worked out (sort of) for you, OP. I had something similar happen with my mom. When I admitted to her that I wasn’t sure if I believed in God or not and didn’t think it mattered one way or the other, she really flipped out. Started crying and everything. It was a mess, but I just couldn’t in good conscience go back and say that I did believe. I told her quite honestly that I didn’t know _what_ to believe and that I preferred to live a good life, but didn’t feel as though I needed God breathing down my neck to do it. Anyway, I think she must’ve been drunk at the time. When we talked about it again more recently, she had apparently been convinced I was atheist. I’m actually agnostic. When I told her, she was extremely relieved. I have no idea why - maybe she thought there was still hope for me. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/69 "2011-05-26T15:51:04Z")
What does it say about our world that it’s common and acceptable to teach kids that their parents and people like them are going to be punished for all eternity, and then the _parent_ has to apologize for it! WTF, **DtC**? Why aren’t you flipping out at your wife because she made your daughter think you were doomed to eternal torment? Mom: “Your father is a bad person that will burn in Hell.” Daughter: “Waaaah!” Dad: “I’m sorry!” Not “No, I’m not”. Not “That’s not true.” Not even “That’s not the way I see it.” You let her indocrinate your kid without so much as a peep to the contrary for 11 years and now _you’re_ in the doghouse?! I’m running out of ways to describe how fucked up that is. How about you stand up for yourself, bitch at your wife for convincing your daughter that you’re in for eternal torture, and then go tell your daughter that there’s no God and that _your wife_ was just joking? That oughta do it. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/70 "2011-05-26T15:57:20Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Holy crap, **Shirley** , you’re totally awesome. I mean, I knew that already, but wow. What a great post. > > . Thank you. I’m going to hell, but I’ll have a clear conscience 🙂 My kids once asked while we were trick or treating why there were two churches next to each other on Church Street in our bumpkiss little town. I replied that " Church was a good business and there was room for more." “But why are there so many different kinds of churches?” “Christianity is like the NFL. Everyone plays the same game, but they all root for different teams and think their team is best.” My friends who were with me were pretty impressed with my response, as was I. Behold the power of a chocolate rush and logical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/71 "2011-05-26T15:58:11Z")
My wife never told her I was going to Hell. My wife doesn’t even believe in Hell. My daughter got Hell from school, not from her mom. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/72 "2011-05-26T15:59:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My wife never told her I was going to Hell. My wife doesn’t even believe in Hell. My daughter got Hell from school, not from her mom. Ironic, it sounds like you are in Hell now. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/73 "2011-05-26T16:11:52Z")
I’m very glad your daughter is doing better today. It sounds like you handled the situation well. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Diogenes the Cynic** > I never lied to her. I never told her I believed in God. I was very circumspect about it. If she asked me a question, I was careful to say things like, “…the Church teaches…” or “…the Bible says…” This is exactly the wording priests, nuns, ministers and rabbis use to explain religious teachings, too. I’d be hard pressed to figure out that you don’t yourself hold those beliefs by your wording it the way you did, and I’m a lot older than eleven. If my kid were that “circumspect” about an issue, she’d be sat down and explained to that lying by omission is still lying. My teen daughter has had two extremely religious friends (both very bright) explain to her that she’s going to hell because of her lack of Christian faith (we’re not even Christian in the first place), beginning back in middle school. One of these girls has seemingly lost the ability to think for herself in many areas. When my daughter questions her, she can only parrot back “because that’s what the church teaches.” Where did I just hear that phrase? Now that this has blown over, please rethink the indoctrination your other kids receive. You’re as much a parent as your wife. Your hard-studied conclusions shouldn’t be abrogated in favor of your wife’s beliefs. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Marley 23** > Not discussing your religious views with a preteen isn’t “withholding critical thinking.” Yes, it certainly is, almost by definition. See Dio’s above quote. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/74 "2011-05-26T16:22:50Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Yes, it certainly is, almost by definition. See Dio’s above quote. I don’t want to turn this into a GD thread, but the post you quoted has nothing to do with what you’re saying. He withheld his opinion. He didn’t withhold critical thinking skills. She can clearly think critically based on her skepticism about some religious concepts. A lot of people become atheists and agnostics without their parents telling them that religion is a sham. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/75 "2011-05-26T16:27:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My wife never told her I was going to Hell. My wife doesn’t even believe in Hell. My daughter got Hell from school, not from her mom. In that case, I can see how you’d let it slide for all these years. Seems like you should be able to present a united front, then. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > We still have a lot of stuff to figure out, but I think the Catholic school experiment might be coming to an end. > > There have been a couple of other incidents recently which caused my wife to say, “what are they _teaching_ them at that school?” > > I said “what did you THINK they were going to teach?” I don’t recommend that. For one thing, changing schools at 11 is Not. Fun. For two, Catholic schools are far-and-above better at educating kids than any public school system I’ve seen. Third, there were many kids that went to Catholic school with me that were Jewish, Atheist, Lutheran, or whatever. They went through the motions like the rest of us but they were essentially “off to the side” when it came to praying, going to church, or going through sacrament preparation. Your daughter can be an unbeliever in Catholic school and make it through just fine. If you like the educating that the school does, keep her there. Tell her that she doesn’t have to believe everything they say and that she can always ask you if she has questions. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/76 "2011-05-26T16:37:06Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I don’t recommend that. For one thing, changing schools at 11 is Not. Fun. For two, Catholic schools are far-and-above better at educating kids than any public school system I’ve seen. This is nowhere near universally true. I was just having a conversation earlier today with the younger brother of one of my high-school friends, who recently transferred out of the local Catholic school and into the public school specifically because the public school offers a much larger variety of courses (including the Chinese language course he wanted) and overall better education. Also, I switched schools when I was 9 and loved it. Kids make new friends and IMHO the benefit gained from not having the school tell them that their dad is going to Hell will probably outweigh the drawbacks of having to make new friends etc. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/77 "2011-05-26T16:44:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He withheld his opinion. He’s paying to send his daughter to a school where he knows she is being lied to. Maintaining the masquerade is just as bad as making it up himself. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/78 "2011-05-26T16:45:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t want to turn this into a GD thread, but the post you quoted has nothing to do with what you’re saying. He withheld his opinion. He didn’t withhold critical thinking skills. She can clearly think critically based on her skepticism about some religious concepts. A lot of people become atheists and agnostics without their parents telling them that religion is a sham. By pretending that there is not an opposing side he is discouraging her from looking for alternative viewpoints. He should be encouraging her to question and test dogma, rather than pretend by circumspect omission that it is the “one way”. Of course she \*can \*think critically, but not all kids do, or even see a reason to do so, especially when confronted with a united front between trusted parents and daily school indoctrination. He should have been teaching her to do so from the beginning. Obviously her Catholic school isn’t going to. Religious instruction often takes the form of “It’s the truth even though it doesn’t seem to make any sense,” which is diametrically opposed to critical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/79 "2011-05-26T16:46:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She’s 11. Just finishing 5th grade. I never should have opened my mouth. At least not yet. I nmever thought anything would make me want to go to church again, but I feel like I’d do it now just to make her feel better. > > I wasn’t supposed to tell her this yet. I totally fucked up. She’s only 11!!! She’s still a young child. Gifted or not she’s not old enough to understand why you have chosen to be an atheist. Let her believe what she wants to believe. If she believes in God then it is not right for you to force your views on her. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/80 "2011-05-26T16:52:30Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > She’s only 11!!! She’s still a young child. Gifted or not she’s not old enough to understand why you have chosen to be an atheist. > Let her believe what she wants to believe. If she believes in God then it is not right for you to force your views on her. Yes, by all means, you can’t _teach_ a child anything until they’re at least into their mid-teens. Then a couple of all-day seminars, and that’s that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254.md?page=5)