# I finally told my oldest daughter I'm an atheist. Now she's upset and crying. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 26, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254 "2011-05-26T03:59:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/121 "2011-05-26T23:34:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hmmm. > > From [What Is Theravada Buddhism?](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bullitt/theravada.html) > > Who am I going to believe, you, or my lying eyes? There is nothing supernatural in any of that. You basically don’t know what you’re talking about, dude. You should probably give it a rest. Do you think I don’t know what I’ve been practicing for the last 15 years? Do you think I don’t know anything about what I majored in? You don’t have to believe in reincarnation to be a Buddhist, ok? Buddha himself said it was a waste of time to even worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/122 "2011-05-27T00:09:50Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > It could also be that (as we’ve seen in discussions here before) **DtC** tends to be a bit aggressive in arguments and discussions where he believes he is right. I’m sure he is much more gentle with his family than he is with the board, of course… > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > I’m pretty sure there is going to be some resentments building on both sides of the relationship. Dio probably already resents the agreement he made a while back and it has been eating away at him for years now… **Dio** , do you take it out on the board because you’re stifled at home? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/123 "2011-05-27T01:14:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She’s calmed down a lot. She at least doesn’t think I’m bnecessarily going go o Hell anymore. \*\*My wife and I convinced her that I would just go to purgatory at worst. \*\*She’s doing better now. I think my wife is still pissed at me, though. I wasn’t suppesed to open my mouth about this until she was at least a teenager. I may be jerking off in the shower for a while. Sounds like you handled it about right. Of course she knew, or she wouldn’t have pushed you. Just because she knew doesn’t mean she was ready to handle it without Mom & Dad helping her out. Kids alway pick up on things way younger than their parents are happy with. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/124 "2011-05-27T01:15:38Z")
Buddha was also pretty good at letting things go and staying on topic. **Dio** , I’m sorry to hear what sounds like a real tense situation. I think you and your wife need a big sit-down for how to deal with your other two children. Why is she pushing so hard for Catholic school again? Not that Catholic school is such a horror sentence. It all depends on the school really. The high school I went to (Go Eagles!) had prayer and masses sometimes but the religion classes were very laid-back, inquisitive, and no ideas were ever pushed on anyone. I’m glad I had them as they taught me a lot about different worldviews and cultures from a young age. No, In this situation, it’s not Catholic school itself that’s the issue but communication, openness, and the strange insistence that a daughter be sheltered from her dad’s true feelings until such a late age. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/125 "2011-05-27T01:24:32Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > **Dio** , do you take it out on the board because you’re stifled at home? I think so, yeah. I don’t have any place to vent IRL. I’ve been talking with my wife, and confronted her with some things I haven’t before. She’s conflicted. She still has this idealized view of being a “Catholic family,” but also has a lot of problems with the actual teachings. She said she was hoping they wouldn’t “come on so strong,” and I asked why she ever thought they _wouldn’t_. For now, we’ve agreed to just be a pluralistic household, where everybody is open. I’m pushing again for a UU compromise, and she’s considering it. One issue is that her job actually requires her to be a Christian (she works for a church), and she isn’t sure whether they would accept UU as Christian. I’m telling her that she doesn’t have to stop identifying as Catholic to go to a UU church, and she is, in fact, still a Catholic in the eyes of the RCC. We’ve agreed to take them out of Catholic school after this year is over (there’s only a week left), and she’s deliberating on what to do as far as church. Ideologically, UU would actually be a much better fit for her, but I think she has a lot of Catholic guilt about the idea of going to a non-Catholic church. We’ll see what happens. I think she needs more time to process things. This day was bound to come. It was a ticking time bomb. I’m kind of glad it’s over now. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/126 "2011-05-27T01:30:50Z")
I’m happy for you, not for the angst, but for the opportunity to stretch and grow as a family. Wish my own family could have resolved this when my sister and I were younger. I’ll be curious about the compromise you settle on, if you feel like sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/127 "2011-05-27T01:35:04Z")
I will. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/128 "2011-05-27T01:43:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > We’ve agreed to take them out of Catholic school after this year is over (there’s only a week left), and she’s deliberating on what to do as far as church. You might not want to share this information with your daughter right away, since she’ll associate having to change schools with your atheism. Is it at all possible for you to let your daughter decide if she wants to do another year in catholic school? I’m not sure what the school system is like where you are, but if she’s going to have to attend a new school at grade 7, then it might be the best for her to finish out grade 6 at her existing school rather than taking her away from her school friends without getting her input. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/129 "2011-05-27T01:57:04Z")
She was already saying she wanted to leave her Catholic school and go to the “hippie school” before this. She doesn’t like wearing the uniform. I guess that sounds like a superficial reason to change schools, but to a girl going into middle school, clothes are a big deal. She likes to put together outfits and be stylish. This change doesn’t have to be associated with anything but her own desire to try something new. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/130 "2011-05-27T03:42:11Z")
I guess we won’t tell her that her baby cousin isn’t baptized and Unca Tenny is an animist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/131 "2011-05-27T03:49:41Z")
I thought you were just a cat fancier. ---
**Author:** ![Whoo69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Whoo69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whoo69)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/132 "2011-05-27T07:04:54Z")
If dogmatic and right-wing Christians go to Heaven, I’m sure glad I’m an atheist.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Whoo69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Whoo69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whoo69)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/133 "2011-05-27T07:07:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She was already saying she wanted to leave her Catholic school and go to the “hippie school” before this. She doesn’t like wearing the uniform. I guess that sounds like a superficial reason to change schools, but to a girl going into middle school, clothes are a big deal. She likes to put together outfits and be stylish. This change doesn’t have to be associated with anything but her own desire to try something new. Hippie school? Lol Is that what your wife calls it? Please don’t tell me your daughter already is _that_ conservative? Or are you one of the rare (I think about 2%) conservatives who happens to be atheist (which include such figures as George Will and I think Matt Drudge, as well as C Cup)? J/w ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/134 "2011-05-27T07:10:38Z")
> [@Whoo69](#): > > Hippie school? Lol > > Is that what your wife calls it? Please don’t tell me your daughter already is _that_ conservative? > > Or are you one of the rare (I think about 2%) conservatives who happens to be atheist (which include such figures as George Will and I think Matt Drudge, as well as C Cup)? J/w You’re new around these here parts, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/135 "2011-05-27T07:30:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think so, yeah. I don’t have any place to vent IRL. Heh, I can relate to that. It’s very problematic discussing religious stuff with people, never mind actually venting about it. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > We’ve agreed to take them out of Catholic school after this year is over (there’s only a week left), and she’s deliberating on what to do as far as church. Ideologically, UU would actually be a much better fit for her, but I think she has a lot of Catholic guilt about the idea of going to a non-Catholic church. > > We’ll see what happens. I think she needs more time to process things. This day was bound to come. It was a ticking time bomb. I’m kind of glad it’s over now. I’m torn on this - did the school provide a better education? If so, I’d have trouble taking my child out, despite personal feelings toward religion. I wish you luck and I have a strong feeling that even though right now is painful, you and your family will be better in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/136 "2011-05-27T10:16:53Z")
The other side of it: I’m 36. I have never, ever told my very-Catholic Mother that I don’t believe in God. Whenever I visit my Parents - or on the very odd occasion that they visit me here - I become a good Catholic boy. I go to Mass purely for my Mother’s sake as it is so important to her. Her religion is so important to her and I am pretty sure it would devastate her if I straight up told her. I am pretty sure she knows that I am not a regular church go-er but I doubt very much she thinks I simply don’t believe in God. I am certain she just thinks I have lapsed. And every time I do it I die a little. But now I am too far in. I’ve done it for too long, I am living a lie that getting out of would cause even more damage. In short, best do it now rather than let it go on too long. Later on it becomes much more difficult and the potential to hurt people is much, much greater. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/137 "2011-05-27T11:30:01Z")
from their birth, I always talked to my daughters about religion in terms of “Some people believe…” and I always tried to adhere to the principle “Never lie to your kids–if you feel a lie coming on, tell them ‘I’d rather not talk about that now’ or ‘I’ll be glad to go into this with you when you’re older’ or something of that sort,” so that they were asking ME to disclose my horrible, disgusting, repellent, obnoxious, frightening, threatening views on religious issues. Your mistake was in agreeing to pretend to be something you’re not, and that you have every right to be. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/138 "2011-05-27T12:27:12Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Do you consider LDS to be a christian denomination? Diogenes uses what he finds useful from schools of buddhist thought and to that end considers himself a buddhist. Disagreeing and trying to prove that he’s not really a buddhist makes you look petty and rude. He’s actually got a good point, even if it’s veering the thread off topic. The cessation of rebirth is supernatural. The Pali Canon is awash in demons, spirits and angels. While the core of Buddha’s teaching is that his meditation method will make everyone a better person, which does not require spiritual beliefs, the “ultimate” goal has very supernatural implications. It’s very similar to the explanation that Dio is giving his daughter: Even though I don’t believe in God, I still basically act like a good Christian so I’m not going to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/139 "2011-05-27T12:32:42Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Do you consider LDS to be a christian denomination? Diogenes uses what he finds useful from schools of buddhist thought and to that end considers himself a buddhist. Disagreeing and trying to prove that he’s not really a buddhist makes you look petty and rude. I would agree with you… if he had said that, or if I had said that. But he didn’t. He didn’t say that his practice of Buddhism required no supernatural beliefs. He didn’t say that what he took from Buddhism required no supernatural beliefs. He said Buddhism required no supernatural beliefs. Here, see? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Buddhism doesn’t require any supernatural beliefs. ANd I didn’t say he wasn’t a Buddhist. In fact, I know so little about Zen Buddhism that I asked if Zen has a goal of _buddhatta_. If he had said it didn’t, or if he had said that his practice of Zen doesn’t, then you’d have a point. Here’s what I said about Buddhism requiring belief in the supernatural. > [@Bricker](#): > > Theravada Buddhism does. Mahayana Buddhism does, at least to the extent that they claim all sentient beings have Buddhadhatu. And as I understood it, Zen derives from the Mahayana school. > > Does Zen Buddhism still have a goal of _buddhatta_? (That’s the Pali word applied in Theravada Buddhism for attaining a complete buddha nature). If so, I’d argue that alone is a supernatural belief, since it implies the end of rebirth. Now, please explain to me: 1. How is that not supernatural? 2. How you figure we’re talking about what Diogenes takes from it, as opposed to what the practice actually is? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254/140 "2011-05-27T12:49:17Z")
The word is “require”. Being Buddhist doesn’t “require” supernatural beliefs. That doesn’t exclude that it may have these beliefs, just that it doesn’t require them. Dio- sounds like you have strong family and fundamentally a lot of love and respect. Your kid sounds like a smart cookie. It sounds like you’re on a good path together and will figure it out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-finally-told-my-oldest-daughter-im-an-atheist-now-shes-upset-and-crying/583254.md?page=8)