# I, For One, Am Sick of Our New Jedi Pimping Overlord (Warning: Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2005, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940 "2005-05-22T09:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/81 "2005-05-24T07:36:18Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > And they’d probably want to strike back quickly before he’d had a chance to fully consolidate his powers, might even want to see if any of their relatives in the military were upset by this and willing to head to Corcusant _now_, before the guy’s got an even larger clone army at his disposal. Which relatives in the military? While you might convince some in the Navy to turn against the supremely popular new Emperor – the man who is beloved, who saved the Galaxy from the evil Jedi Count Dooku – you’d have no ground forces, as all ground forces were clones, and all clones were loyal only to the Emperor. In Episode III, in a cut subplot, we see a handful of Senators beginning the work of forming the Rebellion. They have to be careful, though, because there’s never been a leader more popular than Emperor Palpatine. He is beloved. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/82 "2005-05-24T07:42:27Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > 1)“Love can’t save you. Only my new powers can save you.” Weak line, but very Star Wars. > [@](#): > > 2)It had a lava fall because fighting on lava just isn’t x-treme enough. I’m surprised they didn’t cameo Buzz Bunny. I don’t see how a Lava world is out of place in Star Wars. > [@](#): > > 1. Jedi that have been blocking shots from all directions in the two previous movies suddenly turn retarted due to special plan 66. A Jedi can’t defend himself/herself from an attack they can’t sense coming. Do you want to go into the reasons why they couldn’t sense the clone attacks? And even when they do defend themselves, they can only do so much, as seen in Episode II. > [@](#): > > 4)How many hands must a jedi lop off before you can call him a master? Kendo. > [@](#): > > 1. Padme dies of a broken heart!?! Why? Wasn’t a crushed windpipe good enough? Cheesy, but appropriate for the genre. > [@](#): > > 6)Palpatine is revealed to have an ass for a head. Big ole butt crack right down the middle. In his defense, he had the good taste to put on a hood. > [@](#): > > 7)And how about the shoving in of Chewbacca? Wasn’t that great writing there? It was fanservice. So? Why not wink to the fans every now and then? Chewie’s 250 years old, it’s not like it’s a continuity problem. > [@](#): > > 8)Any bit of dialogue between Padme and Anakin. A good example is the whole “blinded by love” clusterfuck. God, that exchange made me want to die. They were okay, however, in two scenes: their first meeting at the Senate, after he saves Palpy, and on Mustaffar. The rest was predictably dreadful. > [@](#): > > 9)Anakin cannot tell that Padme is terribly pregnant even though he hugs the terribly pregnant Padme Her pregnancy was all over the map in terms of obviousness and/or visibility. Poorly handled. > [@](#): > > 1. Palpatine: Aren’t the sith great? Boy I sure do love them sith. You know who are the best people ever? The sith. > > Anakin:Oh, okay. > > Palpatine:By the way. I’m a sith lord. > > Anakin: :eek: OMG WTF?? Wow. That’s just amazingly inaccurate. > [@](#): > > Come on people. This movie was crap. Says you. Why should I care what you think? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/83 "2005-05-24T10:42:49Z")
Apologies. My closing line was really stupid. I might have well put “Resolved: This movie is crap.” :smack: As for the rest of my post, this is a pit thread about how bad the new star wars movie is. I was sharing the things that ruined the movie for me. Kinda figured that it was on topic. I’m not forcing anyone to read this thread or standing in front of the theater with a picket sign that says “George Lucas is a punk.” You had to have known what you were getting into in this thread after page 1. Spectrum, if you don’t care what I think, you may feel free not to reply to my posts. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/84 "2005-05-24T11:07:50Z")
Fucking hell, why wasn’t this thread in the cafe? I had thought all those who loathed people-dressed-in-odd-space-costumes movies, may have gathered here. I must be alone. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/85 "2005-05-24T13:52:44Z")
> [@WilhelmGefallen](#): > > Alternative option, Leias’ adopted mother (Organa) dies, Mr. Organa re-marries but never mentions to Leia that she is adopted. > > Mrs Organa the second is now Leias step-mother, not her real mother ie Lukes question. > > oh wait, that means people cant whine about a plot hole :rolleyes: If you have to make up all sorts of convoluted shit to explain what the director/writer missed, then it’s a plot hole! ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/86 "2005-05-24T15:38:23Z")
> [@](#): > > The only way I can rationalize that, and the fact that the Jedi in general, who are specifically looking for a Sith master, can’t figure out who it is, is to assume that Palpy has some mind-clouding power. No need to rationalize it. Yoda and Mace explicitly state in Ep. II that their ability to use the Force for scrying is diminished and that it is a dark side user–presumably a Sith Lord–that is doing it. By Episode III, they have come to suspect that Palpatine is a Sith, but his popularity and the needs of the ongoing war have limited their ability to act on it. Plus, moving against the Chancellor is treason, and they’re not going to do it unless they know for sure he’s a Sith. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/87 "2005-05-24T15:43:27Z")
> [@](#): > > The only way I can rationalize that, and the fact that the Jedi in general, who are specifically looking for a Sith master, can’t figure out who it is, is to assume that Palpy has some mind-clouding power. No need to rationalize it. Yoda and Mace explicitly state in Ep. II that their ability to use the Force for scrying is diminished and that it is a dark side user–presumably a Sith Lord–that is doing it. By Episode III, they have come to suspect that Palpatine is a Sith, but his popularity and the needs of the ongoing war have limited their ability to act on it. Plus, moving against the Chancellor is treason, and they’re not going to do it unless they know for sure he’s a Sith. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/88 "2005-05-24T15:47:02Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If you have to make up all sorts of convoluted shit to explain what the director/writer missed, then it’s a plot hole! No, if something shown onscreen directly contradicts something else shown onscreen, _then_ it’s a plot hole. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/89 "2005-05-24T15:57:43Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > No, if something shown onscreen directly contradicts something else shown onscreen, _then_ it’s a plot hole. I’d call that more of a continuity error than a plot hole. Both are to be avoided. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/90 "2005-05-24T20:32:29Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > No need to rationalize it. Yoda and Mace explicitly state in Ep. II that their ability to use the Force for scrying is diminished and that it is a dark side user–presumably a Sith Lord–that is doing it. By Episode III, they have come to suspect that Palpatine is a Sith, but his popularity and the needs of the ongoing war have limited their ability to act on it. Plus, moving against the Chancellor is treason, and they’re not going to do it unless they know for sure he’s a Sith. That seems sketchy to me. If they ever actually specifically suspected that Palpy was a Sith lord, ie, his name ever came up on the whiteboard when they were brainstorming possible Sith lords, it seems to me that the implications of that would be SO horrifying that they would HAVE to move to confirm or deny their suspicions, even if there would be political fallout. That is, the drawback of showing up at an innocent guy’s apartment with 10 jedi masters with light sabers, and using the old 'these aren’t the droids you’re looking for" trick to determine whether he’s a Sith lord, then apologizing profusely and leaving, is MUCH less than the drawback of NOT doing so if he IS a Sith lord. Although Mace Windu’s “then our worst fears have been realized” line does somewhat seem to contradict my theory. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/91 "2005-05-24T21:16:13Z")
Yes, I believe Mace’s line is textual evidence for my theory. Also notice that as soon as they have confirmation of Palpatine’s identity (from Aanakin, not coincidentally) they immediately act to overthrow him. Remember also that Dooku told Obi Wan in Ep. II that the Senate was under the control of a Sith. The conversation must have gone something like this: Obi Wan: Dooku told me the Senate was under the control of a Sith. Mace: That’s presposterous! Palpatine is our leader and a good man. Yoda: Still, much it would explain. Mace: That’s true, but Count Dooku is a liar, and if he said it, it’s a lie. Yoda: Meditate on this, we must. For signs of Sith influence in the Senate, wary, we must be. Mace: Perhaps young Skywalker could keep an eye on Palpatine for us… ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/92 "2005-05-24T21:39:12Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Jesus. Fucking. Christ. > > You missed the entire fucking point. > > If you didn’t appreciate the parallel, and why it was made parallel, then there was no hope for you and this film in the first place. You should have just gotten up and left. IOW, it’s sarcasm and I just “didn’t get it”? I don’t think so. Come on, it’s not like Lucas never borrowed shots from other movies in the original _Star Wars_, it’s just that he borrowed them from _other_ directors and that film wasn’t the glorious masterbation fest that this one was. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/93 "2005-05-24T21:50:29Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > First of all, the exterior battles between the Republic Star Destroyers and the Separatist Fleet is NOTHING like the battle in ROTJ, where very little occured between the Mon Cal fleet and the Imperial armada, and the entire thing was seemingly fought out by fighters. > > Secondly, you know jack shit about filmmaking. Lucas finally goes back to his film brat roots, finally uses (in most cases) proper cinematic techniques to turn the world of Episode I into the world of Episode IV, and you’re acting like it’s wrong because you don’t get it. This is that satire I don’t get again, right? > [@](#): > > The fact that the duels between Anakin and Darth Tyrannus and Luke and Darth Vader are so similar isn’t some sort of in-joke or lack of imagination. It is a visual way of relaying a great deal of information about the Sith, and particularly about Darth Sidious. What that they always fight the same way? > [@](#): > > You must hate Star Trek, and how they use the same special effects over and over again, huh? Yeah, well, I wasn’t real thrilled that _Nemesis_ was simply _The Wrath of Khan_ with the serial numbers filed off. > [@](#): > > Ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Jesus Christ, that was funny. Moving on. Yeah, okay, pal. Show me _one_ instance where a movie prior to _Star Wars_ had a giant space station capable of blowing up a planet. > [@](#): > > Just because we never see Leia tell Luke that she was adopted, that means that she never told Luke that she was adopted? Characters are allowed to have conversations with each other off screen. But only about _minor_ stuff, besides, it’s a bit harsh to walk up to someone and say, “Oh, yeah, you know that guy that locked up in the Death Star and tortured you for hours on end? He was really your dad. Oh, and by the way, I’m your brother. Remember french kissing me a couple of months ago?” > [@](#): > > The same reason you want a giant army: The ability to spread your reach more broadly. Yeah, but if you already control the galaxy, what makes you think that you’re going to need a giant weapon to smash everything with? I mean, you’ve already had enough hubris to think that you’re the greatest thing since sliced bread, why should you think that no one else is going to believe that? > [@](#): > > Irrelevent. The resources available to the Empire are larger, comparatively, to those the USA than the Death Star is to a B2 bomber. A. I didn’t bring the B2 into this. B. The technology we’re dealing with is centuries more advanced than anything the US has, so they ought to be really good at fabricating things in a short time. C. It always pissed me off in _Star Trek_ that replicators couldn’t be used to make starships, even though they could make everything else. > [@](#): > > The second Death Star is just a giant trap. There’s no real indication that it was ever intended to be anything more than that. Well, the fact that it was fully operational, though not structurally complete indicates to me that it was more than a simple trap. After all, if you’ve gone to the trouble to build the thing, why _not_ use it more than once? The next time a planet even gets the _least_ bit snippy, you can vaporize them, without the bother of having to send in a bunch of ground troops, and spend an annoying amount of time waiting for them to wipe out the population. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/94 "2005-05-24T21:52:32Z")
> [@WilhelmGefallen](#): > > Alternative option, Leias’ adopted mother (Organa) dies, Mr. Organa re-marries but never mentions to Leia that she is adopted. > > Mrs Organa the second is now Leias step-mother, not her real mother ie Lukes question. > > oh wait, that means people cant whine about a plot hole :rolleyes: Which begs the question of why the hell Luke cares about Leia’s “real mother” at that particular time. Oh wait, maybe it’s because he just found out she’s his sister, and _he’s curious about his mother_? I suppose you could argue that Leia mistakenly assumes that Luke means the first Lady Organa, and responds in kind, but considering that this is never mentioned anywhere else, I think that’s a stretch. Occam’s Razor would apply: more likely, Lucas just forgot (or chose to disregard) the original plan of having Padme go with Leia. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/95 "2005-05-24T21:52:37Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > As a writer, you make an excellent machinist. Meh. If Lucas had written that, you’d be creaming in your pants and you know it. > [@](#): > > Anakin’s relationship to Padme was interlinked with his relationship with Palpatine. They were both the people he considered his true family. However, he’d only been married to Padme for three years. Palpatine had been Anakin’s father figure for over a decade. And Anakin had had the hots for Amadala ever since he saw her. I’m sorry, but pussy beats a dried up old man, everytime. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/96 "2005-05-24T21:55:16Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Which relatives in the military? While you might convince some in the Navy to turn against the supremely popular new Emperor – the man who is beloved, who saved the Galaxy from the evil Jedi Count Dooku – you’d have no ground forces, as all ground forces were clones, and all clones were loyal only to the Emperor. So? A commander willing to sabotage his own ship at just the right moment can turn the tide of battle. > [@](#): > > In Episode III, in a cut subplot, we see a handful of Senators beginning the work of forming the Rebellion. They have to be careful, though, because there’s never been a leader more popular than Emperor Palpatine. He is beloved. Wait, you’re dragging something in that didn’t make it into the film to make a point, and you’re bitching about _me_ talking about things that weren’t in the film? Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/97 "2005-05-24T22:05:14Z")
> [@Tarrsk](#): > > Which begs the question of why the hell Luke cares about Leia’s “real mother” at that particular time. Oh wait, maybe it’s because he just found out she’s his sister, and _he’s curious about his mother_? > > I suppose you could argue that Leia mistakenly assumes that Luke means the first Lady Organa, and responds in kind, but considering that this is never mentioned anywhere else, I think that’s a stretch. Occam’s Razor would apply: more likely, Lucas just forgot (or chose to disregard) the original plan of having Padme go with Leia. And you know, Lucas could have fixed all that fairly simply. All he would have had to do was have Luke say something like, “Leia, about your parents.” Leia responds with, “Which ones? My real ones or my adopted ones?” Then you pick up with Luke asking about her real mother. It only yakes a couple of seconds of dialoge, and no more plothole. At least not until we get to RotS. If Lucas had put the kind of effort into his story that he put into his effects on this movie, it would have been one of the greatest films ever made. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/98 "2005-05-24T23:32:10Z")
**Tuckerfan** , do you really think Lucas had the granular level of dialog and story for RotS written when RotJ was being filmed? You really can’t say Lucas should have changed Luke’s dialog; it’s twenty years old. The proper thing would have been to fit events around RotS to fit the dialog in RotJ. **spectrum** , why are you defending Lucas so fervently. The best Star Wars movie was one (of two - the other was spoiled by Ewoks and piss-poor writing) he didn’t direct, because he can’t direct. He gave us some larger than life SFX when there was nothing in the movie theater even close and created some fun movies. But to argue that he’s Wells, Coppola, Scorsese, Capra, Tarantino and Speilberg all rolled into one tells me that the fantasy world you live in is even more fantastic than the one Lucas created. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/99 "2005-05-24T23:40:33Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > **Tuckerfan** , do you really think Lucas had the granular level of dialog and story for RotS written when RotJ was being filmed? You really can’t say Lucas should have changed Luke’s dialog; it’s twenty years old. The proper thing would have been to fit events around RotS to fit the dialog in RotJ. Well, yeah, but given that Lucas seems to be more interested in redoing his old movies than making his current ones decently. . . ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940/100 "2005-05-25T00:58:03Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Well, yeah, but given that Lucas seems to be more interested in redoing his old movies than making his current ones decently. . . In that case, 20 years from now we should have perfect continuity 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-for-one-am-sick-of-our-new-jedi-pimping-overlord-warning-spoilers/304940.md?page=6)