# I forget, do we have a general HurricaneDitka Pit thread? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952 "2018-01-06T00:15:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1161 "2019-09-27T15:17:56Z")
Ditka knowingly, and has admitted to, not reading sourced documents to which he is arguing against. The funniest is when he asked in response to an argument based partly on an article about Trump’s popularity: “Who do you think Socially liberal, Fiscally Conservatives voted for in 2016” … when the article itself was entitled: [Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative Voters Preferred Trump In 2016](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/socially-liberal-fiscally-conservative-voters-preferred-trump-in-2016/). The immortal exchange: > [@Howard Schultz considers run; urged against.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-schultz-considers-run-urged-against/828511/242): > > Check the 538 article linked above. Certain People are always calling for a “socially liberal, fiscally conservative centrist independent” to break the two-party duopoly. Problem is that only like 15% of Americans are both socially liberal and fiscally conservative. > [@Howard Schultz considers run; urged against.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-schultz-considers-run-urged-against/828511/243): > > Which candidate do you think those 15% supported in the last (Presidential) election? > [@Howard Schultz considers run; urged against.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-schultz-considers-run-urged-against/828511/244): > > Trump. It says so in the article. Did you not read it? I mean, the headline itself says: “Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative Voters Preferred Trump In 2016” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1162 "2019-09-27T15:20:35Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Also, get this song in your head: One eight seven seven Kars 4 Kids Oh, fuck you! No seriously, burn in hell, **manson1972**. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1163 "2019-09-27T15:32:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [1 week suspension](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21884307#post21884307)! > [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s a noble goal but I don’t think it’s working on the SDMB. > > 1. We welcome debate as long as it’s free of hate, misogyny, and bigotry. > > 2. Conservatism is rooted in hate, misogyny, and bigotry. (I see that repeated continually on this board without meaningful objections.) > > The end result is that no, someone on the other side of the political aisle is not welcome on this board. The bias has poisoned things far too much. If you have left wing blinders on you can’t see it. I think I saw this argument walking down the Yellow Brick Road with an anthropomorphic lion with emotional issues, a metallic android in need of a decent internal lubrication system, and a girl wearing a gingham dress and serious red kicks. And her little dog, too. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1164 "2019-09-27T16:05:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Surely you can see the difference between “annoyed” and “upset and rude”? I’m pretty sure **Annoyed** is a trock; I’ve never seen a post by **Upset And Rude** tho. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1165 "2019-09-27T16:27:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But 2 is not a position held by the majority of the board, or anything close, AFAICT. There are indeed lots of conservatives on this board that aren’t regularly personally attacked and denigrated. So why aren’t people objecting to it when it comes up? I’m really glad I’m not on the right, I would probably not feel welcome at all. Let’s look at it another way. Let’s say you’re a black man in a rural Southern town. You see a billboard declaring that black people are the spawn of the Devil and should be burned in hellfire. You sit in a cafe and the white waitress comes to take your order. You ask if they will even serve your kind in a place like that, she says that it’s not a problem. You ask why they have a billboard with racist hate speech allowed to stand in town and she insists that the town is fine and not racist because most residents don’t have that opinion. You see where I’m coming from. If you allow bigots to go unremarked because they’re on the “correct” side you are endorsing their views through your silence. And frankly, I can’t help but think you do share those views to an extent even if you try to convince yourself that you’re better than that. I said before that as a moderate I’m okay with this board, and I meant it. I am a paid member and happy to be one. But I’m really glad I’m not one of the hateful, racist misogynistic demons who might vote Republican. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1166 "2019-09-27T16:32:31Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > So why aren’t people objecting to it when it comes up? I’m really glad I’m not on the right, I would probably not feel welcome at all. > > Let’s look at it another way. Let’s say you’re a black man in a rural Southern town. You see a billboard declaring that black people are the spawn of the Devil and should be burned in hellfire. You sit in a cafe and the white waitress comes to take your order. You ask if they will even serve your kind in a place like that, she says that it’s not a problem. You ask why they have a billboard with racist hate speech allowed to stand in town and she insists that the town is fine and not racist because most residents don’t have that opinion. > > You see where I’m coming from. If you allow bigots to go unremarked because they’re on the “correct” side you are endorsing their views through your silence. And frankly, I can’t help but think you do share those views to an extent even if you try to convince yourself that you’re better than that. > > I said before that as a moderate I’m okay with this board, and I meant it. I am a paid member and happy to be one. But I’m really glad I’m not one of the hateful, racist misogynistic demons who might vote Republican. We can all do better to call out bad behavior on our side in some cases. But in short, people are “objecting to it when it comes up”. If you’re talking about the thread I’m thinking of (don’t recall the title, but a GD thread a few months back asking if any conservative principles are NOT based on bigotry/hatred/etc.), numerous (liberal/left) posters chimed in with tolerant and broad-minded defenses of conservatism in general and criticized posts that childishly lumped it altogether as fundamentally bigoted and hateful. Your hypothetical doesn’t match, since there were plenty of posters publcly criticizing the simplistic denigration of conservatism. So once again, I think your characterization of the board is false. Shitty and bigoted posts are usually called out, even when they’re made on the “liberal” side. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1167 "2019-09-27T16:32:34Z")
I don’t see right leaning posters chastise other right leaning posters when they trot out insulting nonsense about the left. We are not all moderators. We are not all responsible for policing everyone else. We present our own views, and everyone is responsible for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1168 "2019-09-27T16:38:22Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > 1. Conservatism is rooted in hate, misogyny, and bigotry. (I see that repeated continually on this board without meaningful objections.) > > The end result is that no, someone on the other side of the political aisle is not welcome on this board. The bias has poisoned things far too much. If you have left wing blinders on you can’t see it. Conservatism is not inherently rooted in hate, misogyny and bigotry. Conservatism _as it is currently practiced by its most prominent adherents_ is. It’s perfectly possible to be a kind, fair-minded conservative; I have known such people. Sadly, those people have been being actively sidelined by their nastier brethren and accused of being RINOs and closet liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1169 "2019-09-27T16:44:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Also, get this song in your head: One eight seven seven Kars 4 Kids That was diabolical. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1170 "2019-09-27T16:48:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We can all do better to call out bad behavior on our side in some cases. But in short, people are “objecting to it when it comes up”. If you’re talking about the thread I’m thinking of (don’t recall the title, but a GD thread a few months back asking if any conservative principles are NOT based on bigotry/hatred/etc.), numerous (liberal/left) posters chimed in with tolerant and broad-minded defenses of conservatism in general and criticized posts that childishly lumped it altogether as fundamentally bigoted and hateful. Your hypothetical doesn’t match, since there were plenty of posters publcly criticizing the simplistic denigration of conservatism. > > So once again, I think your characterization of the board is false. Shitty and bigoted posts are usually called out, even when they’re made on the “liberal” side. Here’s a perfect example. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21766052#post21766052](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21766052#post21766052) That doesn’t fit with what you’re trying to say here. And this isn’t rare. Again, I’m arguing as someone not personally offended, but I can see how it would drive people away who might otherwise be happy to contribute but would feel unwelcome here. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1171 "2019-09-27T16:51:58Z")
And the horrible things some conservative posters say about liberals and the left? Are you equally upset about that? Because I don’t see any other conservative posters challenge those things. Maybe you’re just more sensitive to it in one direction? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1172 "2019-09-27T17:05:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Here’s a perfect example. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21766052#post21766052](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21766052#post21766052) > > That doesn’t fit with what you’re trying to say here. And this isn’t rare. > > Again, I’m arguing as someone not personally offended, but I can see how it would drive people away who might otherwise be happy to contribute but would feel unwelcome here. That’s a single post from a long, long thread (and it’s more nuanced then what you’re complaining about). There are tons of counter-examples, specifically challenging the notion that conservatism is rooted in hatefulness. Here’s one (from the thread I was talking about earlier): > [@What "Conservative Values" aren't based on bigotry?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/308): > > Many classically conservative values don’t appear to be based on bigotry, IMO. Supporting Trump, on the other hand, requires bigotry (and misogyny), tolerance of bigotry (and misogyny), or ignorance of bigotry (and misogyny), IMO. Notice that it’s not critical of conservatism at all, just of support for Trump. I think you might be confusing criticism of Trump and Trump-support for criticism of conservatism as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1173 "2019-09-27T17:41:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So once again, I think your characterization of the board is false. Shitty and bigoted posts are usually called out, even when they’re made on the “liberal” side. Remember when you said before (something like) that you wouldn’t question a minority’s take on what it is like to be that minority? That’s like what you’re doing now. This is one of those things where I think you’re own bias impacts your assessment. How do you describe when conservative minded people say that the board is generally unwelcoming or unfriendly towards conservative views, and then the left leaning people will explain to them how they’re wrong. I’d call it liberal-splaining to contextualize it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1174 "2019-09-27T17:47:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’d call it liberal-splaining to **contextualize** it. (bolding mine) You misspelled “dismiss”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1175 "2019-09-27T18:01:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Remember when you said before (something like) that you wouldn’t question a minority’s take on what it is like to be that minority? That’s like what you’re doing now. > This is one of those things where I think you’re own bias impacts your assessment. > > How do you describe when conservative minded people say that the board is generally unwelcoming or unfriendly towards conservative views, and then the left leaning people will explain to them how they’re wrong. I’d call it liberal-splaining to contextualize it. Compared to what other boards? When they say they don’t get treated fairly, I would like to see an example of what supposed “fairness” is before I agree to anything. Short of solid evidence I could say they get treated _more_ than fair and that would be just as valid as any complaint on the other side of the aisle. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1176 "2019-09-27T18:09:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Remember when you said before (something like) that you wouldn’t question a minority’s take on what it is like to be that minority? That’s like what you’re doing now. > This is one of those things where I think you’re own bias impacts your assessment. > > How do you describe when conservative minded people say that the board is generally unwelcoming or unfriendly towards conservative views, and then the left leaning people will explain to them how they’re wrong. I’d call it liberal-splaining to contextualize it. I’m challenging specific claims – that broad-brushing simplistic attacks on conservatism aren’t called out. They are called out, frequently, on this board. But of course my own bias might impact my assessment. I’m human. Your own bias might impact your assessment of my assessment, assuming you’re also human. The board leans liberal. Of course conservatives might find a board that leans liberal less welcoming than one that doesn’t lean liberal. The only way to change that is to make the board less liberal… and then liberals would find it less welcoming. EDIT: My position on this matches your position, IIRC – conservative posters generally aren’t mistreated on this board. Is my memory correct? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1177 "2019-09-27T18:16:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The board leans liberal. Of course conservatives might find a board that leans liberal less welcoming than one that doesn’t lean liberal. The only way to change that is to make the board less liberal… and then liberals would find it less welcoming. This post right here sums up my feelings pretty well I guess. I don’t even see it as a “problem”, it’s just how things are. I’m not conservative so it doesn’t personally impact me. The board leans very heavily liberal and it’s only likely to lean further that way if the only conservatives likely to come here are those looking for conflict. I don’t know if it needs to be “fixed”. Productive discussions happen here all the time, most people are pretty cool, and it’s a good place on the web. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1178 "2019-09-27T18:17:28Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > This post right here sums up my feelings pretty well I guess. I don’t even see it as a “problem”, it’s just how things are. I’m not conservative so it doesn’t personally impact me. The board leans very heavily liberal and it’s only likely to lean further that way if the only conservatives likely to come here are those looking for conflict. > > I don’t know if it needs to be “fixed”. Productive discussions happen here all the time, most people are pretty cool, and it’s a good place on the web. So what were we arguing about? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1179 "2019-09-27T18:27:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So what were we arguing about? 😉 Everyone’s in agreement! How about a rousing chorus of “Kumbaya”? Better yet, a rousing chorus of one-eight-seven-seven-kars-four-kids! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952/1180 "2019-09-27T18:31:29Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Everyone’s in agreement! How about a rousing chorus of “Kumbaya”? > > Better yet, a rousing chorus of one-eight-seven-seven-kars-four-kids! I’ll need a campfire for the former…and your effigy in straw for the latter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-forget-do-we-have-a-general-hurricaneditka-pit-thread/805952.md?page=60)