# I found the cyclist everyone thinks of when they think of bad cyclists **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 29, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815 "2014-08-29T00:34:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/41 "2014-08-30T14:02:11Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > This reasoning seems backwards to me. You could make the same defense of drunk driving. The behavior is irresponsible and illegal even if the particular instance of it does not result in injury. Maybe, but I don’t want to defend drunk driving. I don’t personally care whether people do stuff that’s illegal. The point of the laws is to protect people. If no one got hurt, I am unmoved by the fact that someone got away with breaking a law. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/42 "2014-08-30T14:16:14Z")
No one got hurt _this time_. But that’s in no way due to this cyclist. Look, for instance, at I think it was the second red light he flew through-- There’s a big truck that veers to avoid hitting him. Do you really need people to explain how it’s dangerous for big trucks to be veering, and that causing a big truck to veer is really bad? ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/43 "2014-08-30T14:45:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No one got hurt _this time_. But that’s in no way due to this cyclist. Look, for instance, at I think it was the second red light he flew through-- There’s a big truck that veers to avoid hitting him. Do you really need people to explain how it’s dangerous for big trucks to be veering, and that causing a big truck to veer is really bad? I saw no dangerous veering. The video was pretty hard to watch though, so maybe I missed it somehow. All I saw was a guy riding his bike and nothing bad happening – a non-event that raised the ire of the Safety Patrol. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/44 "2014-09-01T21:21:11Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Maybe, but I don’t want to defend drunk driving. > I don’t personally care whether people do stuff that’s illegal. The point of the laws is to protect people. If no one got hurt, I am unmoved by the fact that someone got away with breaking a law. I’m really not sure how you can reconcile these seemingly contradictory statements. If you saw a video of a drunk driver weaving his way down a highway but ultimately turning safely into his own driveway, would you call it as “a non-event” and dismiss condemnation of the driver’s actions as “the ire of the Safety Patrol?” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/45 "2014-09-02T00:44:47Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Overall, blocking traffic. Slower traffic is supposed to stay to the right. However, without knowing such things as the number of lanes, width of the lanes, number of cyclists, room for passing and so on, it really can’t be determined who’s more at fault. I will say that sharing the road works both ways. They should all fit in one lane, there’s no reason that they needed to spread out across more than one lane. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/46 "2014-09-02T03:19:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Pregnant woman vs. bike messenger in Seattle](http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2013/04/pregnant_woman_vs_bicyclist_in.html) > Bare bones: > Car cuts off messenger, messenger kicks car. > Pregnant passenger gets out, confronts cyclist. > PP pulls out stun gun, cyclist attempts to flee, _she chases and catches him, hits him in the face. Twice._. (Seems to not understand how a stun gun works.) > Driver comes on the scene, pulls his own stun gun and beats cyclist with it(also seems to not understand how a stun gun works). Pair gets back in their car and drives off. Well that was entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/47 "2014-09-02T03:23:35Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > I contemplated putting this in the pit, but ultimately decided that A) it’s not worth taking _that_ seriously, and 2) I can’t be arsed to come up with the requisite number of creative uses of the word “fuck.” > > So here’s a guy I encountered on my morning commute the day before yesterday: With all of the building cranes and The Needle in the back ground, I first thought that this was filmed in Toronto. And it was a sunny blue day to boot. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/48 "2014-09-02T03:29:02Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > I’m really not sure how you can reconcile these seemingly contradictory statements. If you saw a video of a drunk driver weaving his way down a highway but ultimately turning safely into his own driveway, would you call it as “a non-event” and dismiss condemnation of the driver’s actions as “the ire of the Safety Patrol?” Am I testing his blood alcohol with my eyes? A video of someone weaving around and pulling into their driveway is also a non-event. Likewise for people snipping the tags off of their mattresses. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/49 "2014-09-03T21:07:09Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Am I testing his blood alcohol with my eyes? > A video of someone weaving around and pulling into their driveway is also a non-event. Likewise for people snipping the tags off of their mattresses. Sooo… if, say, you lived in a rural neighborhood and someone hunting nearby just fired off a few careless bullets in the direction of your house, that would be okay as long as no one got hurt? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/50 "2014-09-04T01:52:01Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > Sooo… if, say, you lived in a rural neighborhood and someone hunting nearby just fired off a few careless bullets in the direction of your house, that would be okay as long as no one got hurt? :dubious: Yes. If no one is hurt, why should I care? There is enough actual shit going on that I don’t need to concoct things to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/51 "2014-09-04T02:23:35Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Maybe, but I don’t want to defend drunk driving. > I don’t personally care whether people do stuff that’s illegal. The point of the laws is to protect people. If no one got hurt, I am unmoved by the fact that someone got away with breaking a law. The point of the laws is to protect people, but the laws only count if someone gets hurt? ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/52 "2014-09-04T02:35:23Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > The point of the laws is to protect people, but the laws only count if someone gets hurt? “Count” in what sense? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/53 "2014-09-04T05:29:11Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Yes. If no one is hurt, why should I care? There is enough actual shit going on that I don’t need to concoct things to worry about. I… have no response to that. You seriously are okay with someone flinging bullets at your house “if no one is hurt” that time?? Are you… just completely failing to take into account the very meaning of risk avoidance and the value of responding with censure to risky behaviors, even in the instances where they don’t precipitate disaster? By your logic, there’s no reason at all to punish drunk drivers until they actually hurt someone. I hope I don’t have to explain why that would be a bad policy. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/54 "2014-09-04T13:40:43Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Given the sloppiness of the description (the cyclists are also described as riding in a horizontal line - which sounds like a pace line to me) I am unwilling to assume that there is more than one lane to be taken up. > > Given the description also describes some unsafe behavior by the driver I am not giving them any benefit of the doubt at this point. Given the context I interpret horizontal as shoulder to shoulder, not line astern. When I did big group rides we’d ride 3 or 4 abreast at times, but always within a single lane. The people at or near the back would make a point of paying attention to what was going on behind. If they spotted a car they’d shout “car back” and we’d shuffle into single file to let the car around. Simple courtesy and self preservation all in one. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/55 "2014-09-04T13:45:36Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > I… have no response to that. You seriously are okay with someone flinging bullets at your house “if no one is hurt” that time?? Are you… just completely failing to take into account the very meaning of risk avoidance and the value of responding with censure to risky behaviors, even in the instances where they don’t precipitate disaster? By your logic, there’s no reason at all to punish drunk drivers until they actually hurt someone. I hope I don’t have to explain why that would be a bad policy. :dubious: You said these bullets came from someone hunting carelessly nearby, so assuming I was cognizant of their source, I’d definitely consider painting my house a brighter color. If it was a neighbor, I guess I’d have to drop by and let them know they had come close to shooting my house so they would be more careful next time. Hopefully they’d give me some deer jerky. Punishing drunk drivers is fine with me, but I don’t really care that much. There are probably more effective ways to cut down on accidents. I’ve met several 10+ time offenders (that’s getting 10+ DUIs, so obviously they offended many times that number), so it wasn’t discouraging their behavior, but maybe nothing would. Punishing someone for risky behavior to prevent future accidents is an unfortunate necessity at times, not something to get all excited about. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/56 "2014-09-04T13:52:41Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > You said these bullets came from someone hunting carelessly nearby, so assuming I was cognizant of their source, I’d definitely consider painting my house a brighter color. Well, thank _you_Donald Rogerson. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/57 "2014-09-04T15:14:42Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Well, thank _you_Donald Rogerson. How did I become the shooter in this scenario? After Donald Rogerson accidentally shot someone and did not get sentenced to jail time, he did not kill or shoot anyone else, or even hunt again, as far as we know. Accidental shooting deaths in Maine dropped after the incident, apparently due to increased awareness. At no point prior to the fatality did Mr. Rogerson “get away with” careless shots, as far as we know. I’m no expert on this case, but from what I have read, it does not illustrate the benefit of censorious actions or the risk of avoiding them. Shooting someone accidentally is not some glorious pleasure this fellow got to enjoy without paying the price. Saying I would consider painting my house does not mean that I think Mr. Rogerson’s victim was to blame in any way. I’d just rather prevent the occurrence in the first place (when possible) than worry about finger-pointing. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/58 "2014-09-04T19:47:52Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I’d just rather prevent the occurrence in the first place (when possible) than worry about finger-pointing. Your whole angle in this initially was the idea that, as long as everything turned out alright, nothing really needs to be done. (“In the end, if everyone reaches their destination intact, it’s all good enough for me.”) Others, including myself, argued that censure of risky behaviors is socially valuable even in instances where the risk wasn’t realized. E.g., drunk drivers should lose their licenses, that cyclist should have received a citation, and someone shooting carelessly at houses should go to jail and probably have their guns taken away. Now you’re either backpedaling, or your entire position (and reason for arguing in the first place) is thoroughly unclear to me. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/59 "2014-09-04T22:08:09Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > Your whole angle in this initially was the idea that, as long as everything turned out alright, nothing really needs to be done. (“In the end, if everyone reaches their destination intact, it’s all good enough for me.”) Others, including myself, argued that censure of risky behaviors is socially valuable even in instances where the risk wasn’t realized. E.g., drunk drivers should lose their licenses, that cyclist should have received a citation, and someone shooting carelessly at houses should go to jail and probably have their guns taken away. > > Now you’re either backpedaling, or your entire position (and reason for arguing in the first place) is thoroughly unclear to me. > [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > Your whole angle in this initially was the idea that, as long as everything turned out alright, nothing really needs to be done. (“In the end, if everyone reaches their destination intact, it’s all good enough for me.”) Others, including myself, argued that censure of risky behaviors is socially valuable even in instances where the risk wasn’t realized. E.g., drunk drivers should lose their licenses, that cyclist should have received a citation, and someone shooting carelessly at houses should go to jail and probably have their guns taken away. > > Now you’re either backpedaling, or your entire position (and reason for arguing in the first place) is thoroughly unclear to me. Must be the latter. If I live near an area where people hunt and there are frequent near-misses, I’d be smart to make sure my house and self are easy to see, in order to avoid accidental shootings. That’s me taking a reasonable and painless precaution, not me futilely trying to monitor and control whoever happens to be around. I don’t need to tattle to an authority figure any time someone around me breaks a rule, and I take no satisfaction in seeing such people punished. There are way too many people being chewed up and spit out by the legal system as it is. It’s unfortunate and tragic when an innocent bystander is harmed because of someone’s carelessness, but the person who has made the careless mistake is not automatically a piece of garbage. If no one has been hurt, hurting the rule-breaker is not improving the situation. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815/60 "2014-09-04T22:10:17Z")
Sorry for the above double quote. It’s being screwy and won’t let me change it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-cyclist-everyone-thinks-of-when-they-think-of-bad-cyclists/696815.md?page=4)