# I found the way to determine if you're a lowly grunt or not in the company! Simple! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396 "2003-10-03T18:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Freiheit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e8c25b/32.png) [@Freiheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freiheit)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/21 "2003-10-04T05:37:00Z")
Ugh. It sounds weird to me when people in this thread realize that everyone can watch them work. Wherever I am, I can’t be facing away from the door. Especially if it’s open, even a little bit. With computers, I have to be with my back to the wall, facing everyone. Can’t stand being watched, at the computer or in my car. No one can watch me when I’m creating anything. This also goes deeper: I can never feel comfortable around an ‘analyzer’, someone watching me and reaching conclusions. I’m an analyzer, though. If I had a shrink, I’d kill 'em. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/22 "2003-10-04T05:48:47Z")
Oh, no! I’m a grunt! Wait, I’m the one who set up the computers the way they are, namely so that no child who is ostensibly doing homework could escape notice while, say, downloading porn or surfing gamer sites. Not that my precious angels would do something like that, you understand. Oh, no! My children are grunts and I’m using their computers! ---
**Author:** ![lurksfromwork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@lurksfromwork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurksfromwork)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/23 "2003-10-04T07:41:41Z")
six monitors, my own office (actually a whole building, I’m the only one here…except for a few members of the public that drop in every so often for a bit of info/help/soothsaying/witchdoctory), my nearest boss is 1000 kms away, all screens face away from the door…I’m am the king of this little space. But, alas, I’m still just a grunt. ---
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/24 "2003-10-05T04:42:35Z")
I think I have you all beat for proof of being a lowly grunt. The company I work for has offices in a large exhibition center (McCormack Place, Chicago) in what used to be a plumber’s shop. In their spare time, the plumbers made some modifications for their own convenience. When they moved out and my company got the space, the modifications stayed behind. So, in addition to a nice desk, computer, etc., my office truly does have a urinal in it. Which is sometimes used by my boss when I’m out to lunch or something. OK, who can beat that? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2003, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/25 "2003-10-05T09:39:23Z")
That was really interesting, **Bill H.** Thanks for posting that, you gave me much to think on, in expanding your theory. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/26 "2003-10-05T12:11:01Z")
Odd, this means that at my very first office job, I was a god. I had a high-walled cubicle at the end of a dead-end corridor, so nobody walked by unless they were coming to see me specifically. Heaven. Then, through a series of job changes and office plan alterations, I moved steadily downward until I was in what looked like a prison workshop: an open-plan office where the managers sat in a row with their backs to the window, watching everyone else in the office from behind. Now, at my new job, I have a desk in the corner next to a window, and nobody can see me except the folks in the building next door, and they don’t care. I am once again a god. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/27 "2003-10-05T12:16:02Z")
Huh. I recently was promoted. (From a nonsupervisory position to a very modestly supervisory one.) Pre-promotion, I was in office situations that gave me the freedom to position my computer so that people dropping by couldn’t easily see the screen. In my current cubicle, that’s pretty much impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Sylkyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@Sylkyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylkyn)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/28 "2003-10-05T12:32:35Z")
I am definitely a grunt, but then so is everyone in my company. All the monitors face traffic (what little there is). My boss, the owner, will be happy to learn he’s on the same level of nothingness that I am. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/29 "2003-10-05T13:34:45Z")
At my previous job, I was a grunt: I originally placed my computer where I had my back to a wall and the monitor facing me. I’m an artist, and I work best with no distractions (other than surfing while I work, but _that’s how I work_). I’m fast, and I get the work done. The higher-ups, though, didn’t like that, so they made me change it. Of course, they ignored others (ie, their friends) who did the exact same thing. I hated that job- if you’re going to hire me, trust me to get the job done! The company went out of business within two years… because the higher-ups didn’t do _their_ jobs. Sure, the irony was amusing… but a paycheck’s better. At my current job, I’m quite obviously trusted- my monitor faces just me and the wall. I can turn on my headphones, shut off the outside world, and get some work done. The only time anyone comes by to see what I’m working on is when I _invite_ them to. I get my work done, and fast. This all goes back to my first job in the industry- I would wear my headphones (gotta have music), but my monitor faced the traffic. All too often I’d feel a tap on my shoulder, when someone would need my attention… which would scare the crap out of me. I like to know when people are going to sneak up behind me, thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/30 "2003-10-06T15:40:01Z")
Ok, maybe my sample of one doesn’t project well to the entire world… 😛 However, I’m certain it is an unwritten policy at my current company. I’m also think it is probably common, but not everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/31 "2003-10-06T15:57:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bayonet1976 \* > \*\*What are these com-pu-tors of which you speak? \*\* By Gadfrey, **bayonet1976**! You never told us you were a member of the Bush Administration! 😉 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/32 "2003-10-06T18:10:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*By Gadfrey, **bayonet1976**! You never told us you were a member of the Bush Administration! 😉 😃 \*\* I’m all for the proper administration, allocation, and distribution of bush. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/33 "2003-10-07T00:00:18Z")
Gee, when I was a mere intern at the STM, my computer faced away from the corridor. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/34 "2003-10-07T00:19:45Z")
FWIW, my father once observed that the most important person in any oranization is the one with the most keys. Chances are that person is also the lowest paid. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/35 "2003-10-07T12:52:56Z")
FWIW, I’m just an admin, and no one can see what I’m doing on my computer thanks to the set up of our office space. I’m at the end of the room, with my monitor facing the window, and an office with high walls next to me so she can’t see what I’m doing. But then again, I’m also just so freakin happy to still have a job… ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/36 "2003-10-07T12:54:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jeff Olsen_ > > FWIW, my father once observed that the most important person in any oranization is the one with the most keys. Chances are that person is also the lowest paid. Ding Ding Ding - I am. The lowest paid, and have a master office key that will open any office in my building. As well as dupes to every file cabinet and flipper thingy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/37 "2003-10-07T13:37:39Z")
I am flushed with the intoxicating elixir of power. You’re all FIRED! Hahahaha. Okay, just kidding. Now go get me a donut, or you’re FIRED! You over there! I need to draft an important document. Write it for me and have it cite-checked so that I can unnecessarily edit it and then place my name on it in place of your own. And have it done before I return from the links, or you’re FIRED! Yesssss. I think I’m going to work out just fine as a boss. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/38 "2003-10-07T15:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Missy2U \* > \*\*Ding Ding Ding - I am. The lowest paid, and have a master office key that will open any office in my building. As well as dupes to every file cabinet and flipper thingy. 😃 \*\* That was me for a time as well. My first Goverment job was in a small mailroom that also doubled as a supply room. All mail/supply employees had keys for the meeting rooms, the service elevator, and skeletons that could open any office in that agency. The “lowest paid” part of Dad’s allegory was my idea. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/39 "2003-10-07T17:04:18Z")
I work in the modern equivalent of Jeremy Bentham’s [url="[http://users.rcn.com/mackey/thesis/panpic.html](http://users.rcn.com/mackey/thesis/panpic.html)"Panopticon. My office has a curved outer wall and a shorter inner wall, like a crescent/semi-circle shape. The two senior managers sit with their backs to the inner (straight) wall, computers in front, facing out over the room. All the rest of us, our computers are easily seen as you walk through the centre of the office. Scarily, this building won an architectural award (despite it leaking and the AC not working). It’s the future for you all. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396/40 "2003-10-07T17:05:56Z")
I work in the modern equivalent of Jeremy Bentham’s [Panopticon](http://users.rcn.com/mackey/thesis/panpic.html). My office has a curved outer wall and a shorter inner wall, like a crescent/semi-circle shape. The two senior managers sit with their backs to the inner (straight) wall, computers in front, facing out over the room. All the rest of us, our computers are easily seen as you walk through the centre of the office. Scarily, this building won an architectural award (despite it leaking and the AC not working). It’s the future for you all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-found-the-way-to-determine-if-youre-a-lowly-grunt-or-not-in-the-company-simple/205396.md?page=3)