# I Gave Birth to my Kids, I Get to Raise Them, Bitch! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581 "2008-11-20T02:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/41 "2008-11-20T14:32:27Z")
**Sarahfeena** , I’m not really disagreeing with you, just using your post as a jumping off point to express my opinions. I’m going to err on the side of terseness rather than nit-pickery (or hair-splittery) this morning and stop here. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/42 "2008-11-20T14:52:47Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Oh, and beware. You will soon get told that unless someone has lost an eye over it, it wasn’t a book banning. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Oh puh-leez. They didn’t ban the books, they moved the books to the high school. > [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t see what the big deal is. The book wasn’t banned. Right on time. ---
**Author:** ![MissIntent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/97f17d/32.png) [@MissIntent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissIntent)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/43 "2008-11-20T14:56:52Z")
It was depressing when I opened the article in question, “round rock… wait, but, that’s… that’s where i live! Aaaarg they’re at it again!!!” Walking to places isn’t really possible here. For instance, I went to the major high school in town. I live a few miles, maybe 5 at most, away from it. In theory, I could have ridden my bike, except this town is not designed for such hippy type activity. To do so, I would have had to ride a few miles on a very busy 4 lane road with a tiny shoulder and none of those crazy side walk things. Also not surprised that the school got caught up in something this pointless that doesn’t relate to educating kids at all. When I was in high school there, they had a policy of giving saturday detentions for being late to class. At all late, like 1 minute late. But skipping class didn’t bring that kind of punishment. So if I was late to class, it was better for me to skip than be late. Brilliant guys. Oh, and this is off topic completely, but OP, please don’t rely on the school to teach sex education of any sort to your kids. If I had relied on what I learned from them, my friends or myself would have likely ended up having abortions at 18 or with some disease. Luckily, I did a year of high school in another state, and what I learned there was eye opening. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/44 "2008-11-20T15:04:13Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Really?..Has it come to the point of a whole two miles being an unthinkable distance for a healthy adolescent to walk? > > Curse you for making me feel so old, and get off my damned lawn! Its about six for us, but its moot anyway as middle schoolers aren’t permitted to leave the middle school campus - so even if it were next door, they couldn’t walk over to the high school to get a book - that would be leaving the middle school campus. And there are no non-school library hours. There are no interlibrary loans within the school district (that’s what public libraries are for - we barely have librarians anymore - we don’t in the elementary school - to administer such things). So no, that book, in our district, would now be inaccessible to middle schoolers through the school libraries - which is the only library most of these kids ever get the opportunity to visit (and bookstores - hah!). ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/45 "2008-11-20T15:08:36Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I’m not saying I’m in favor of removing any book that one particular parent doesn’t like. What I’m saying is that a school isn’t necessarily obligated to provide any and all resources that a particular parent might want, either. They have to make decisions that they think is in the best interests for the student body in general. Moving one book to a library for older kids may be a perfectly legitimate decision to make. Did you miss this part of the story: > [@](#): > > Chávez gave the directive after two panels of parents and school officials examined the novel and recommended it remain in middle schools. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/46 "2008-11-20T15:10:14Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I put “TTYL” on the same category as junk food. Junk food is fine in small doses. But it’s not essential for development. “TTYL” doesn’t take on important social issues; it doesn’t exactly expand my child’s literary horizons. So who cares if it’s removed from the shelf? This isn’t “Tom Sawyer.” Better to use that space for another book, which may be less appealing but ultimately a better choice. > > Sorry. I can’t muster up the outrage here. I had a friend who now has a kid who is a sophomore in college. When the kid was eight or nine, he got into comic books. My friend said “well, it isn’t great literature, but he is READING - and I’ve never been able to really get him to read before.” It would be great if I could get my kids to read Robert Louis Stevenson or Madeline L’Engle. You know what…they don’t. If they are going to read, they read popcorn. I can get them to read popcorn. And by reading popcorn, they become better readers. Maybe, eventually, they’ll discover the difference between crap and worthwhile reading - and I’ll have little literature snobs like myself … and maybe they’ll read pulp romances and whatever the 2020 equalvent of Tom Clancy is. But they’ll be readers. ---
**Author:** ![EristicKallistic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@EristicKallistic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EristicKallistic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/47 "2008-11-20T15:10:58Z")
I don’t think it matters if the book is available elsewhere, or if it’s a good book for the curriculum or whatever. The school librarian chose this book for the collection. That’s the job. That’s why they pay the librarian, what he was trained for. Then two panels, the first made up of school officials and parents, the second chosen from district officials and parents, were convened. BOTH of them decided the book was appropriate. If you’re not going to listen to your employee, who is trained, chosen and paid to do the job of choosing what books are appropriate for the students, and you’re not going to listen to TWO different committees chosen from the parents and school officials, and you’re just going to strike out on your own, you are an asshat and not fit to be a school superintendent. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/48 "2008-11-20T15:13:00Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > It would be great if I could get my kids to read Robert Louis Stevenson or Madeline L’Engle. You know what…they don’t. If they are going to read, they read popcorn. I can get them to read popcorn. And by reading popcorn, they become better readers. Maybe, eventually, they’ll discover the difference between crap and worthwhile reading - and I’ll have little literature snobs like myself … and maybe they’ll read pulp romances and whatever the 2020 equalvent of Tom Clancy is. But they’ll be readers. When I was a kid, there was a series of literary classics in comic book format…little digest-sized adaptations of things like _Jane Eyre_ and _Treasure Island_ and _Billy Budd_. I don’t know if they’re still around or even what the series was called at this point, though. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/49 "2008-11-20T15:16:14Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I definitely agree that the schools ought to offer something more than classics, but I think a line does need to be drawn somewhere. That necessitates a healthy, ongoing, respectful debate. The parent in the OP objected to the book, which led to an inquiry and a decision to move the book to the HS. That sounds like a reasonable process to me. If other parents object to the ruling, then they should have their say, too. And so it goes. Other parents did get their say and, along with school officials, decided the book should stay: > [@](#): > > School Superintendent Jesús Chávez on Tuesday ordered a novel for teenagers removed from middle school libraries three days before school trustees were scheduled to hear a complaint about vulgar language and sexual content in the book. > > **Chávez gave the directive after two panels of parents and school officials examined the novel and recommended it remain in middle schools.** So what you have here is one weasely administrator prioritizing one parent’s objection over the recommendations of other parents and school officials with differing opinions. How does that sound reasonable? Sounds to me like the process was circumvented. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/50 "2008-11-20T15:56:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > When I was a kid, there was a series of literary classics in comic book format…little digest-sized adaptations of things like _Jane Eyre_ and _Treasure Island_ and _Billy Budd_. I don’t know if they’re still around or even what the series was called at this point, though. [Classics Illustrated](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classics_Illustrated) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/51 "2008-11-20T16:05:57Z")
> [@zagloba](#): > > [Classics Illustrated](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classics_Illustrated) No, these weren’t full-sized staple-bound comic books. They were digest-sized perfect-bound paperbacks. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/52 "2008-11-20T16:08:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t disagree with the venom in the OP, but this is a little too much. Middle schoolers not only can walk two miles, but they _should_ be walking this amount. Every day. In fact, everyone who isn’t crippled should. I mean, 11-13 year olds all over the world do it, so why not? That’s why we have an obesity, epidemic now. Everyone’s afraid to walk a couple of miles and experience the world outside of a car window. > > The same overparenting that causes books to be banned has contributed to a generation of lazy, over-pampered, scairdy-cat kids who think they’re too fragile to WALK. I’m sick of it! > > [/rant] Depends on the area-some are pretty safe-some I wouldn’t let them walk two BLOCKS, let alone two miles. It isn’t so HOW LONG, but WHERE they are walking is safe. And besides, as said, I highly doubt the HS library would let said MS-er check said book out. :rolleyes: Hell, I wouldn’t even have been able to walk to the MIDDLE SCHOOL (had I gone there, anyways, which I didn’t-I went to Catholic school). Not all kids are capable of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/53 "2008-11-20T16:14:37Z")
Fuck, too late to edit. Never mind-others have said what I did-that’ll learn me to read the whole thread before replying to one damned post. Fuck it. :smack::smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/54 "2008-11-20T18:48:57Z")
In response to the talk that TTYL isn’t literary material, I’d like to point out that it wasn’t banned for not being literary material. If the librarian chose not to purchase TTYL because it had no literary merit, there would be no pit thread and no outrage. The outrage comes from a book being banned because one parent found it offensive, and the spineless superintendent ignoring the multitudes who thought the book was fine. TTFL, from it’s name and premise seems to be geared toward middle school girls, so I suspect that it wasn’t too out of line. The outrage is a bit tempered for me by the fact that the book was retained by the school system, but still seems to be a bad thing to me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/55 "2008-11-20T19:19:58Z")
You can buy that book right now on Amazon for 1 cent (plus S&H, of course!). You have every right to buy a copy for your kids. ---
**Author:** ![CRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRich)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/56 "2008-11-20T19:29:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You can buy that book right now on Amazon for 1 cent (plus S&H, of course!). You have every right to buy a copy for your kids. But the problem isn’t that the book is completely unavailable–it’s that one parent making a big enough fuss got a book removed that the rest of the parents and the library staff thought was acceptable reading material. The issue is that just because Susie Steamroller gets her panties in a twist about objectionable language (or whatever), that doesn’t give her the right to determine the reading material available for the rest of the families at that school. The school had guidelines in place to deal with parent complaints, she followed them and the decision didn’t go her way, so she complained loudly enough that the superintendent caved in to her demands. How is that right or fair? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/57 "2008-11-20T19:36:58Z")
> [@CRich](#): > > But the problem isn’t that the book is completely unavailable–it’s that one parent making a big enough fuss got a book removed that the rest of the parents and the library staff thought was acceptable reading material. The issue is that just because Susie Steamroller gets her panties in a twist about objectionable language (or whatever), that doesn’t give her the right to determine the reading material available for the rest of the families at that school. > > The school had guidelines in place to deal with parent complaints, she followed them and the decision didn’t go her way, so she complained loudly enough that the superintendent caved in to her demands. How is that right or fair? Well instead of arguing on an internet message board, hold that pent up frustration and take it to a rally in front of the superintendents office. Make him know that it’s not going to be easier to ban the book than to not ban it. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/58 "2008-11-20T19:37:35Z")
Even though I’m a librarian, I think the school made the right call in this case. First, the book wasn’t “banned”, it was moved to the high school library, a more age appropriate place for it. Why is the HS more age appropriate? Well… I just picked the book up off the shelf (we keep it in the teen area, which is aimed at kids 13-18, though 10-12 like to read these books as well) and read through the first few pages, which is mentioned as being particularly vulgar. The book is about a trio of tenth graders (15-16) and in the first couple of pages they discuss wanting to touch the penis of a male classmate. One of the girls also asks another one, “Was he staring at your boobs in class?” Then I put the book and started writing this post, so who knows where it goes from there. The point it, the book is more appropriate for the HS library and while I hate censorship, they did right. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/59 "2008-11-20T19:59:55Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > The point it, the book is more appropriate for the HS library and while I hate censorship, they did right. I agree. My once 12 year old daughters don’t need to learn about female ejaculation at this point in their lives. TMI How would they feel if they don’t ejaculate ? Not normal ? ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/60 "2008-11-20T20:00:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t see what the big deal is. The book wasn’t banned. It was placed in a more age-appropriate place. Is the OP against that as a concept across the board? Are there no books he/she believes should be available to 16-year-olds and not 12-year-olds? Or is it the he/she objects to the judgement pertaining to this particular book? For the record - she. What I object to is that another parent took it upon themselves to determine what is right or wrong for my child. The book may not have been appropriate for her child and I totally support her right to not allow her child to read it. However, the book was deemed appropriate for 11-13 year olds by the middle school librarian, the middle school principal and not one, but two panels of parents. I trust the middle school librarians to be able to adequately assess what is and isn’t appropriate reading material for that age group. Additionally, if there were books on the shelves that I did not feel my child was ready to read, then I believe it is MY obligation to make sure that my kid doesn’t read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581.md?page=4)