# I Gave Birth to my Kids, I Get to Raise Them, Bitch! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581 "2008-11-20T02:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/61 "2008-11-20T20:03:04Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > For the record - she. > > Additionally, if there were books on the shelves that I did not feel my child was ready to read, then I believe it is MY obligation to make sure that my kid doesn’t read it. So have you checked out **all** the books in the library ? ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/62 "2008-11-20T20:10:46Z")
> [@MissIntent](#): > > It was depressing when I opened the article in question, “round rock… wait, but, that’s… that’s where i live! Aaaarg they’re at it again!!!” > > Walking to places isn’t really possible here. For instance, I went to the major high school in town. I live a few miles, maybe 5 at most, away from it. In theory, I could have ridden my bike, except this town is not designed for such hippy type activity. To do so, I would have had to ride a few miles on a very busy 4 lane road with a tiny shoulder and none of those crazy side walk things. > > Also not surprised that the school got caught up in something this pointless that doesn’t relate to educating kids at all. When I was in high school there, they had a policy of giving saturday detentions for being late to class. At all late, like 1 minute late. But skipping class didn’t bring that kind of punishment. So if I was late to class, it was better for me to skip than be late. Brilliant guys. > > Oh, and this is off topic completely, but OP, please don’t rely on the school to teach sex education of any sort to your kids. If I had relied on what I learned from them, my friends or myself would have likely ended up having abortions at 18 or with some disease. Luckily, I did a year of high school in another state, and what I learned there was eye opening. I haven’t even jumped into the “walking to the high school” to get the book discussion. I can just imagine sending my 10 year old to walk down Highway 79 to get to the nearest high school to check out a book. Believe me, I have been taking care of the sex education talks at home. It was pretty obvious when I moved up here from Austin that my family wasn’t really the typical Round Rock family. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/63 "2008-11-20T20:13:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You can buy that book right now on Amazon for 1 cent (plus S&H, of course!). You have every right to buy a copy for your kids. My kids already own a copy. It has been in our house for several years now. It isn’t about being able to get their hands on a copy of the book, it is about who gets to be the parent to MY kids. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/64 "2008-11-20T20:19:19Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > So have you checked out **all** the books in the library ? Of course not, I would be lying if I said I had. My parenting style when it comes to books is to pretty much allow my kids to pick what they want to read. My youngest has occasionally tried to read books that are her older sister’s and at a much more advanced level. Usually she gets bored with them quickly and doesn’t finish them. If they can read a book and understand what they are reading, then they are most likely ready to handle that book. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/65 "2008-11-20T20:20:30Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > My kids already own a copy. It has been in our house for several years now. It isn’t about being able to get their hands on a copy of the book, it is about who gets to be the parent to MY kids. In that case it sounds more like you want to be the parent of other people’s kids. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/66 "2008-11-20T20:25:15Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > In that case it sounds more like you want to be the parent of other people’s kids. How so? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/67 "2008-11-20T20:27:38Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > The book may not have been appropriate for her child and I totally support her right to not allow her child to read it. However, the book was deemed appropriate for 11-13 year olds by the middle school librarian, the middle school principal and not one, but two panels of parents. I trust the middle school librarians to be able to adequately assess what is and isn’t appropriate reading material for that age group. Additionally, if there were books on the shelves that I did not feel my child was ready to read, then I believe it is MY obligation to make sure that my kid doesn’t read it. From the portion I read, it sounds like the middle school librarian was wrong. I know, it’s shocking, but librarians can be wrong. Secondly, parents don’t really have a whole lot of say over what books their kids check out at a school library because the parents typically aren’t there. Therefore, I think book buying rules should be a little more conservative in the younger ages because I bet a lot of parents don’t want their kids reading about older teen girls wanting to slobber on a classmate’s dick. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/68 "2008-11-20T20:30:13Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > How so? It isn’t about your kids at all. They have the book. You want to ensure the kids of other parents have an opportunity to read the book even if those parents don’t want to give them the opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/69 "2008-11-20T20:31:05Z")
> [@CRich](#): > > But the problem isn’t that the book is completely unavailable–it’s that one parent making a big enough fuss got a book removed that the rest of the parents and the library staff thought was acceptable reading material. The issue is that just because Susie Steamroller gets her panties in a twist about objectionable language (or whatever), that doesn’t give her the right to determine the reading material available for the rest of the families at that school. > > The school had guidelines in place to deal with parent complaints, she followed them and the decision didn’t go her way, so she complained loudly enough that the superintendent caved in to her demands. How is that right or fair? The book was not banned- it was removed to the proper reading/maturity level. Would you want a copy of the Anarchists Cookbook > **[The Anarchist Cookbook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchiast_cookbook)** > > The Anarchist Cookbook, first published in 1971, is a book containing instructions for the manufacture of explosives, rudimentary telecommunications phreaking devices, and related weapons, as well as instructions for the home manufacture of illicit drugs, including LSD. It was written by William Powell at the apex of the counterculture era to protest against the United States' involvement in the Vietnam War. Powell converted to Anglicanism in 1976 and later attempted to have the book removed f... available to grade-schoolers? Even in my public library, I’d want that book in the restricted area. How about the illustrated edition of the Presidential Report of the Commission on Obscenity and Pornography ? > **[President's Commission on Obscenity and Pornography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Commission_on_Obscenity_and_Pornography)** > > In 1969, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Stanley v. Georgia that people could view whatever they wished in the privacy of their own homes. In response, the United States Congress funded the President's Commission on Obscenity and Pornography, set up by President Lyndon B. Johnson to study pornography. > The Commission was established to study and report on: > Initially, the Commission consisted of Edward E. Elson, Thomas D. Gill, Edward D. Greenwood, Reverend Morton A. Hill, S.J., G... And, the OP’s 16yo is (hopefully) in HS, where the book _is_ available. It is not in the library for the 10yo, and even according to the publisher, it’s outside of her age level. > **[Amazon.com: Ttyl: 9780810987883: Myracle, Lauren: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Ttyl-Lauren-Myracle/dp/0810987880)** > > Amazon.com: Ttyl: 9780810987883: Myracle, Lauren: Books This is not a book for the average 10yo. Now, if Mom wants _her_ 10yo to read it- fine, buy a copy. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/70 "2008-11-20T20:37:08Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > It isn’t about your kids at all. They have the book. You want to ensure the kids of other parents have an opportunity to read the book even if those parents don’t want to give them the opportunity. You’re right, it isn’t about my kids and this one particular book. It is about the bigger picture. Its about who gets to decide what is right or wrong for their own kids. I am in no way telling any other parent what their kids can and can’t read. I am only asking for the same consideration. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/71 "2008-11-20T20:40:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And, the OP’s 16yo is (hopefully) in HS, where the book _is_ available. It is not in the library for the 10yo, and even according to the publisher, it’s outside of her age level. > > [Amazon.com: Ttyl: 9780810987883: Myracle, Lauren: Books](http://www.amazon.com/ttyl-Talk-You-Later-Internet-Girls/dp/0810987880) > > This is not a book for the average 10yo. Now, if Mom wants _her_ 10yo to read it- fine, buy a copy. The (now) 16 year old read it when she was in middle school. The 10 year old didn’t even realize the book existed until all the controversy started. You can bet she wants to read it now. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/72 "2008-11-20T20:40:51Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > You’re right, it isn’t about my kids and this one particular book. It is about the bigger picture. Its about who gets to decide what is right or wrong for their own kids. I am in no way telling any other parent what their kids can and can’t read. I am only asking for the same consideration. But do you at least agree that this book IS inappropriate for the average 10 year old? And that the superintendent was right to move it (not ban it) to the high school library? ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/73 "2008-11-20T20:46:13Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But do you at least agree that this book IS inappropriate for the average 10 year old? And that the superintendent was right to move it (not ban it) to the high school library? I agree that the book is not appropriate for the average 10 year old. However, the average 10 year old is not in middle school, they are in elementary school. I do not agree that the superintendent was right to move the book to the high school library. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/74 "2008-11-20T20:52:33Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > I agree that the book is not appropriate for the average 10 year old. However, the average 10 year old is not in middle school, they are in elementary school. > > I do not agree that the superintendent was right to move the book to the high school library. Isn’t middle school 6-8 grade? What they used to call junior high? I was 10 when 6th grade began and so were all my classmates. What is your objection to the move, beyond “I’m the parent of my kids, not some other parent”? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/75 "2008-11-20T20:56:39Z")
What’s the middle school age range out there? 12-13? Grades 7-8? The publishers guide rates it ages 13-17 and grades 8-10. Thus, it appears it is _not_ considered suitable for 7th graders, at age 12. And thus 13 and gr8 is marginal. He made the right call. Nor does it appear that _you_ have been in any way effected by this. Your older daughter already read it and _can get it at her HS_, and it is not considered appropraite for your 10yo. Of course, you can buy her a copy if you so choose. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/76 "2008-11-20T20:58:34Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But do you at least agree that this book IS inappropriate for the average 10 year old? And that the superintendent was right to move it (not ban it) to the high school library? Why should she agree to that when two panels (TWO PANELS, including one consisting of other parents) concluded that it WAS appropriate? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/77 "2008-11-20T20:59:29Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But do you at least agree that this book IS inappropriate for the average 10 year old? And that the superintendent was right to move it (not ban it) to the high school library? I was 10 when I entered sixth grade as well, but that was back in the day when you were allowed to enter kindergarten at the age of 4. From what I’ve seen kids are not allowed into kindergarten at the age of 4 anymore and many are not going until they are six. Can you give a cite that the average age for the start of middle school is 10 these days? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/78 "2008-11-20T21:00:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t disagree with the venom in the OP, but this is a little too much. Middle schoolers not only can walk two miles, but they should be walking this amount. Every day. In fact, everyone who isn’t crippled should. I mean, 11-13 year olds all over the world do it, so why not? That’s why we have an obesity, epidemic now. Everyone’s afraid to walk a couple of miles and experience the world outside of a car window. > > The same overparenting that causes books to be banned has contributed to a generation of lazy, over-pampered, scairdy-cat kids who think they’re too fragile to WALK. I’m sick of it! Seconded. I walked about a mile home from middle school and I never got shot, stabbed or abducted. I was still a fattie, but I wasn’t obese, which is more than I can say for a lot of middle schoolers I see walking around these days. Plus, there was a library halfway between school and home, so I got a lot of reading done. > [@Ludovic](#): > > I accidentally the n0v3l. Iz this b@d? [![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/lobley/1217677379633257.jpg) ](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/lobley/1217677379633257.jpg) > [@PunditLisa](#): > > I agree that it’s my right to raise my children as I see fit. But I also think that the school has a responsibility to help me parent my kids, which means that I expect that they won’t offer them things at school that I wouldn’t offer them at home. And what if another parent _would_ offer them those things at home? Why are you the only parent the school has to cater to in this regard? > [@PunditLisa](#): > > I put “TTYL” on the same category as junk food. Junk food is fine in small doses. But it’s not essential for development. “TTYL” doesn’t take on important social issues; it doesn’t exactly expand my child’s literary horizons. So who cares if it’s removed from the shelf? This isn’t “Tom Sawyer.” Better to use that space for another book, which may be less appealing but ultimately a better choice. Because when “Tom Sawyer” is removed, nobody might think to say, “First they came for TTYL…” > [@PunditLisa](#): > > I don’t know if I’d go that far. My kids love Anime, for instance, but I’m not sure I’d want that in the schools, especially since the genre runs the gamut from completely innocuous to violently pornographic. I think you mean manga, and **Rubystreak** wasn’t talking about comic books. > [@PunditLisa](#): > > And though my girls loved the “Twilight” series, I would never insist that their school stock it. Nobody is insisting that the school stock “TTYL”. OTOH, somebody insisted that they remove it. What does that say to you? > [@PunditLisa](#): > > That necessitates a healthy, ongoing, respectful debate. The parent in the OP objected to the book, which led to an inquiry and a decision to move the book to the HS. That sounds like a reasonable process to me. If other parents object to the ruling, then they should have their say, too. And so it goes. Other parents _did_ have their say, and seemed to unanimously agree that the book was fine for the middle school. Why does the one squeaky wheel trump everyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/79 "2008-11-20T21:02:00Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > TWO PANELS, including one consisting of other parents Actually, _both_ consisted partially of other parents. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/80 "2008-11-20T21:05:50Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Why should she agree to that when two panels (TWO PANELS, including one consisting of other parents) concluded that it WAS appropriate? Because the book’s own publisher says otherwise. I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t want my kid reading a book where three teen girls giggle about wanting to grab Peter Dickerson’s penis. Of course, I wouldn’t want to fight the school over it either. But somone did and I still think moving it to the high school is the right thing to do. > [@sinjin](#): > > I was 10 when I entered sixth grade as well, but that was back in the day when you were allowed to enter kindergarten at the age of 4. From what I’ve seen kids are not allowed into kindergarten at the age of 4 anymore and many are not going until they are six. Can you give a cite that the average age for the start of middle school is 10 these days? I can’t, I was just talking about my own experiences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581.md?page=5)