# I Gave Birth to my Kids, I Get to Raise Them, Bitch! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581 "2008-11-20T02:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/121 "2008-11-22T00:09:37Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Beatings, that’s the ticket. The beatings will continue until literacy improves! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/122 "2008-11-22T02:11:57Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > library is not the place to champion junk food which has no respect for capital letters YOU, of all people, should NOT be bitching about capital letters. :rolleyes: BTW, for those who think this book is so inappropriate-one wonders what these parents think of Judy Blume? (Although I would say that _Deenie_ or _Are You There God, it’s Me, Margaret_ is probably better literature, and far more entertaining) ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/123 "2008-11-24T08:51:22Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You don’t know how graphic is was. Neither do I, as neither of us has read it. Maybe you should wait until you know what you’re talking about. … what little i read from the book was graphic enough for me, and it checks out with what many has said. the book contains obscenities and sexual references. that alone should be enough. > [@](#): > > … I don’t know about you, but I tend to trust the opinion of a professional librarian on that. i don’t. based on what i’ve read about the book so far, the publisher’s own opinion of the book and the divided (5 to 4) opinions of the panel of parents and school officials. > [@](#): > > … Wow, you don’t bother to read the other posts in a thread, do you? Some people don’t have access to a public library. It’s charming that you think that public libraries are a given, but they’re not. … i did read them. public libraries _are_ a given here, but that is irrelevant however, since my trouble is getting behind the mindset that one should proffer questionable reading material to your charges. let others stock rubbish if they will, but a school should filter out the worst ones. > [@](#): > > … That’s how it works, and I haven’t seen you offering any constructive suggestions for better ways to encourage literacy. Got any? is that the current state of affairs in the fight for literacy? the best the written english world has to offer to entice new/reluctant readers are books in IM speak filled with obscenities and sexual references? i hope i have made my position clearer now. what i’m not sure of is yours. this is not a ban, the book is placed in a more age appropriate setting. do you disagree with the suggested age bracket for the book or do you disagree with the school’s right to move the book? are you upset that the superintendent has overruled the opinions of the librarian and the divided panel or are you upset that some effort will be required from those who now wish to put the questionable book back on the shelves of underaged readers? am you upset that this point by point refutation is getting way too long for something i can’t get worked up about or am you upset that i can’t understand the fuss made about a so called book that is not quite banned and is going to be read by everyone anyway because of all the publicity generated? > [@Guinastasia](#): > > YOU, of all people, should NOT be bitching about capital letters. :rolleyes: … i was wondering who would take the shot 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/124 "2008-11-24T09:23:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > BTW, for those who think this book is so inappropriate-one wonders what these parents think of Judy Blume? It depends on the book of course. I skimmed parts of Forever to see what the hubbub was about and I don’t think I would be comfortable with letting a 10-11 year old right it. Older sure, but the idea of a younger kid reading about a teen girl telling her boyfriend to stick it in deeper so she can have an orgasm is just a bit too much. Although I’d say both Forever and TTYL fall under the heading of what the parents don’t know can’t hurt them. If my hypothetical kid can get away with reading it without me knowing, good on them. Sneaking around with that stuff is a rite of passage. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/125 "2008-11-24T09:28:25Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > I totally support your right to not let your kid read a book where three girls giggle about wanting to grab Peter Dickerson’s penis. I’m not saying that your kid HAS to read the book. I have absolutely no problem with letting you make the best choices for your kids. > What I am asking is that you do my family the same courtesy. The book was put into the middle school library several years ago. When a parent had an objection, the book was looked at and evaluated and was deemed to be appropriate for middle schoolers. At that point, the parent in question decided that they still knew better what was right for every other child in that school. That, I have a problem with. > I also have a problem with the superintendent who caved in to the pressure. Er - you only think he caved into the pressure because you don’t agree with his decision. Let’s put the shoe on the other foot. What if you were fighting to get a particular book retained, a group of parent’s said no - so you took it to a higher level and “won”. By your current reasoning, the SCOTUS can be disbanded today because the lower courts NEVER make a mistake? ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/126 "2008-11-24T09:44:14Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I accidentally the n0v3l. Iz this b@d? > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Then I put the book and started writing this post Ludovic: “Put the book where?” Justin\_Bailey: “Started writing this post.” Ludovic: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/127 "2008-11-24T10:08:00Z")
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#): > > Ludovic: “Put the book where?” > Justin\_Bailey: “Started writing this post.” > Ludovic: :rolleyes: I’m in ur im, ruinin’ ur writin’ skillz. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/128 "2008-11-24T10:58:15Z")
Here, you seem to be implying that the OP is falsely making this out to be an issue of free speech rights (bolding mine): > [@shijinn](#): > > **this is not a ban,** the book is placed in a more age appropriate setting. But then, in the very next sentence, you commit the same fallacy you’ve just accused her of: > [@shijinn](#): > > do you disagree with the suggested age bracket for the book or do you disagree with **the school’s right to move the book?** This debate is not, and has never been, about the school’s right to move the book. It is about the problems inherent in the process of allowing the town busybody to dictate which books go where, on a case-by-case basis, over the objections of two panels of experts and her parent peers. The fact that the book was moved isn’t the big deal here; the fact that the school kowtowed to the loudest party is the big deal. Also, you have committed the fallacy of the false dilemma. It is quite possible to agree with **both** the suggested age bracket for the book **and** the school’s right to move the book, while still objecting to the particular process involved in moving this one book. You don’t get to determine which positions your debate opponents can choose from. > [@bengangmo](#): > > Let’s put the shoe on the other foot. What if you were fighting to get a particular book retained, a group of parent’s said no - so you took it to a higher level and “won”. You mean “parents”, and that’s not what the OP is talking about. She’s talking about _one parent_ being given supreme authority to overrule _two panels_ of experts and other parents. If it went the other way–one parent were overruled by two panels, etc.–she would seem to celebrate that, or at least acknowledge its legitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/129 "2008-11-24T18:09:53Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > It is about the problems inherent in the process of allowing the town busybody to dictate which books go where, on a case-by-case basis, over the objections of two panels of experts and her parent peers. . You seem to ignore the fact the even the book’s publisher seems to think that the book is not appropriate for the youngest kids at that Middle school. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/130 "2008-11-24T21:34:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You seem to ignore the fact the even the book’s publisher seems to think that the book is not appropriate for the youngest kids at that Middle school. You are ignoring that the publisher does state that it is appropriate for the older kids at the middle school. None of this has anything to do with the parent in question not taking responsibility for her own child. Instead she took it upon herself to be the responsible parent for all the other students at the school. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/131 "2008-11-24T22:35:04Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > You are ignoring that the publisher does state that it is appropriate for the older kids at the middle school.. And who makes sure that only the older kids at the school reads it? No one, of course, which is why it’s best brought over the to HS. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/132 "2008-11-24T23:52:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And who makes sure that only the older kids at the school reads it? No one, of course, which is why it’s best brought over the to HS. Their parents, when they are not too busy parenting everyone else’s children. Are you really advocating that no book in a school library should be on the shelf unless it is appropriate for the youngest student in the school? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/133 "2008-11-25T00:14:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You seem to ignore the fact the even the book’s publisher seems to think that the book is not appropriate for the youngest kids at that Middle school. Yes, I am ignoring that. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/134 "2008-11-25T16:57:20Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > … the fact that the school kowtowed to the loudest party is the big deal. … talking about _one parent_ being given supreme authority to overrule _two panels_ of experts and other parents. … i wasn’t aware there’s a debate here, i thought we’re pitting the weak superintendent for succumbing to the pressure of a thousand (and some) parents to correct his librarian’s mistake. i’m not interested in “free speech rights” and i’m not trying to “determine which positions (my) debate opponents can choose from”. i’m trying to figure out what the fuss is all about. you have a parent dismayed at a book in her child’s school library so she gathered a huge amount of signatures for her petition to remove the book from their libraries. after being rejected the first time, she managed to convince nearly half of the panel on her second attempt and then the school superintendent on her third. isn’t that how it’s supposed to work? how else is it supposed to work? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/135 "2008-11-25T17:34:55Z")
> [@abbeytxs](#): > > Their parents, when they are not too busy parenting everyone else’s children. > > Are you really advocating that no book in a school library should be on the shelf unless it is appropriate for the youngest student in the school? But the parents, unless they have special long range x-ray vision, cannot see what the kids are reading _at school._ Yes. Unless they have two libraries. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/136 "2008-11-25T20:21:37Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > i wasn’t aware there’s a debate here, i thought we’re pitting the weak superintendent for succumbing to the pressure of a thousand (and some) parents to correct his librarian’s mistake. No, we’re pitting the weak superintendent for succumbing to the pressure of _one_ parent. I missed the part with the petitions. Where was that mentioned? It’s not in the thread that I can see, and in the article it’s only mentioned in the comments, where hundreds of signatures, not thousands, are claimed. With such wide-ranging claims, I’m not going to believe it until I see an authoritative source on the petition. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/137 "2008-11-26T01:03:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But the parents, unless they have special long range x-ray vision, cannot see what the kids are reading _at school._ > Yes. Unless they have two libraries. I can’t see what my kids are reading at the public library either, no more adult books there. I can’t see what my kids are reading if they are at the bookstore without me, no more adult books there either. I can’t see what my kid is reading when she is at your house, make sure you don’t have any books I don’t approve of where she might see them. It being _at school_ really doesn’t make any difference. The book was still approved per the publisher for a segment of the school population. As to all books being appropriate for the youngest kids at the school. Did you even think that one through? There should be no book at an elementary school library that would be above a 4 year old level? Really? Elementary school kids rage in age from 4 - 11. Middle school ranges from 11-14. High school ranges from 14-19. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/138 "2008-11-26T13:23:03Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > … I missed the part with the petitions. Where was that mentioned? … didn’t realise it’s not in the thread. from the same site linked in the OP - [COMMENTARY](http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/11/22/1122sanchez_edit.html) another link where the author herself, when confronted with the decision in Round Rock, states that the book was written for high schoolers and not middle schoolers - [TTYL\_author\_defends\_her\_book](http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/TTYL_author_defends_her_book) > [@abbeytxs](#): > > … Did you even think that one through? … did you? we’re talking about a book using words that are not even appropriate for national tv, not reading level. of course we are ultimately responsible for our children, but there is an understanding that placing your child and trust in a school means that the school will also do what is reasonable to deserve that trust. public libraries and bookstores aren’t responsible for your children, schools and certainly a friend who’s looking after your child are held to a different yardstick. ---
**Author:** ![abbeytxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@abbeytxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abbeytxs)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/139 "2008-11-26T13:51:49Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > didn’t realise it’s not in the thread. from the same site linked in the OP - [COMMENTARY](http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/11/22/1122sanchez_edit.html) > > another link where the author herself, when confronted with the decision in Round Rock, states that the book was written for high schoolers and not middle schoolers - [TTYL\_author\_defends\_her\_book](http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/TTYL_author_defends_her_book) > > did you? we’re talking about a book using words that are not even appropriate for national tv, not reading level. > > of course we are ultimately responsible for our children, but there is an understanding that placing your child and trust in a school means that the school will also do what is reasonable to deserve that trust. public libraries and bookstores aren’t responsible for your children, schools and certainly a friend who’s looking after your child are held to a different yardstick. Yes, I did think it through. **DrDeth** was advancing the argument that no book in a school library should be above the level of the youngest student in the school. So, no book above a four year old level in elementary school, no book above an eleven year old level in middle school and no book above a 14 year old level in high school. I find that approach to be unrealistic at best. I still fail to see how having this book in the library means one can’t trust the school. While the book may not be appropriate for all the students, it is appropriate for some of the students. I still believe the parent in question overstepped her bounds. Her time would be better spent parenting her own child. Let all the other parents take care of their own children. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581/140 "2008-11-26T14:26:54Z")
> [@Darryl\_Lict](#): > > I’m not much into book banning, but any book written in Instant Messaging should be banned forthright. Aye, rip out most of Ulysses, starting with Stephen’s stream of conciousness in Chapter 2. Lewis carrol used to just make up words! ban Jabberwokky! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gave-birth-to-my-kids-i-get-to-raise-them-bitch/473581.md?page=8)