# I got a free book. Should I become a Mormon? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522 "2011-03-04T21:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/41 "2011-03-08T22:21:34Z")
lot of nay sayers here. What the heck, go there for a laugh. Apart from scientology ,mormonism and is probably the most transparent and most obvious hoax among the big religions. The story about the how Joseph Smith is almost laughable, I have never read about a more obvious huckster. No thinking man can believe in that nonsense, I challenge anyone to believe in the stories in the Book of mormon (and esp D&C) with a straight face. Pick up Fawn Brodies book on the subject matter. Its an amazing story about the biggest huckster and pathological liar I have ever heard of. Hats of to the chap! ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/42 "2011-03-08T23:00:46Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > lot of nay sayers here. What the heck, go there for a laugh. Apart from scientology ,mormonism and is probably the most transparent and most obvious hoax among the big religions. The story about the how Joseph Smith is almost laughable, I have never read about a more obvious huckster. No thinking man can believe in that nonsense, I challenge anyone to believe in the stories in the Book of mormon (and esp D&C) with a straight face. > > Pick up Fawn Brodies book on the subject matter. Its an amazing story about the biggest huckster and pathological liar I have ever heard of. Hats of to the chap! Great username/post combo. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/43 "2011-03-09T13:35:49Z")
Is this thread for a real? My brain hurts. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/44 "2011-03-09T15:48:46Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Is this thread for a real? My brain hurts. Of course it’s not, but why not waste a perfectly good opportunity to mention that there is nothing more expensive than a free book, especially by the Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/45 "2011-03-09T18:13:28Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > So why are Mormons disliked if they are the majority? > > Is it resentment and envy, or does the Mormon Majority suddenly cop an attitude of how high and mighty? I discussed this [in your other thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13516173#post13516173). To add to what I said there: It’s just human nature. Any persecuted minority (or minority that deems itself persecuted) that then becomes a majority suddenly a) feels the need to flex its muscles – not in a bad way necessarily, but often in a way that is not understanding of others in the now-minority, and b) interprets any animosity towards the muscle-flexing as the aforementioned persecution. Mormons are far from unique in this regard. I’ve seen this in political parties, social groups, history, my own personal history (the first time I was in a majority-geek setting we… did not always behave in a very understanding way towards the non-geeks. I’m ashamed of that now, but anyway, it illustrates the point). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/46 "2011-03-09T18:54:42Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Is this thread for a real? My brain hurts. When you are lost and confused, the Church of RNATB can help, child: > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Worship me, and I’ll give you _two_ free books. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/47 "2011-03-09T19:09:02Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Now what about Mormonism? Well, it should be obvious that there are only two ways to look at Mormonism. Either Joseph Smith was truly chosen by God to reveal truths both through translations of ancient texts and personal revelations, or else he was a shameless liar and a con artist. Leaving aside the excluded middle here, how is this different from any religion that makes fantastic or supernatural claims? I believe I’ve heard pretty much the same argument about Christianity from some christians. Jesus either really is the son of god and everything he says is true, or he’s a whacko guy who’d be off his meds if they had meds for such things back then. In that case, I believe they were arguing _for_ Christianity with this line, whereas you appear to be arguing against Mormonism. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/48 "2011-03-09T19:31:54Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Leaving aside the excluded middle here, how is this different from any religion that makes fantastic or supernatural claims? > > I believe I’ve heard pretty much the same argument about Christianity from some christians. Jesus either really is the son of god and everything he says is true, or he’s a whacko guy who’d be off his meds if they had meds for such things back then. In that case, I believe they were arguing _for_ Christianity with this line, whereas you appear to be arguing against Mormonism. It is no different at all. But it is worth mentioning that LDS prophets and apostles have repeatedly reinforced this “excluded middle”. **ITR C** is paraphrasing Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith, and Gordon B Hinkley. ---
**Author:** ![Heyoka13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Heyoka13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heyoka13)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/49 "2011-03-09T19:43:03Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > **sassyfras** : > > . . .Now what about Mormonism? Well, it should be obvious that there are only two ways to look at Mormonism. Either Joseph Smith was truly chosen by God to reveal truths both through translations of ancient texts and personal revelations, or else he was a shameless liar and a con artist. . . . . And then, if you select ‘chosen by God’, you then need to evaluate which of the 80 or so branches of Mormonism is the ‘One True Correct’ Church that carries on with Joseph Smith’s calling. Clearly, the current ‘home office’ in Salt Lake City has changed, modified, emphasized and de-emphasized various of Joseph Smith’s words. And frequently, when they do that, we see another schism in the church, the folks that want to stick with what Smith said stick together and break away from the folks that are once again, changing something. Assuming Joseph Smith was called upon by God, I would have the gravest doubts about the Salt Lake City church’s standing in the sight of God, despite their being the largest extant branch today. Granted, some of the earliest splinters no longer exist, and I am deeply concerned one of them may have been the one true Mormon religion, what a shame for all the Mormons, to have been sooooo close, and then to have let the glory slip through their fingers. Anyone considering a switch to Mormonism, URGENTLY needs to evaluate ALL the branches of this church. Clearly, being biggest is no sign of correctness, considering the enormous changes the Salt Lake City branch has wrought, I can scarcely imagine them to be, in fact, the correct implementation of Joseph Smith’s church. Investigate, investigate, investigate! If The Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times is the one correct church, and you have picked The Church of the New Covenant of Christ, obviously, you have displeased God, mightily, and the consequences for your soul will be grave. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/50 "2011-03-09T21:18:25Z")
> [@Heyoka13](#): > > And then, if you select ‘chosen by God’, you then need to evaluate which of the 80 or so branches of Mormonism is the ‘One True Correct’ Church that carries on with Joseph Smith’s calling. > … Exactly. And any church that _accepts_ polygyny to be the “New and Everlasting Covenant” has rejected the teachings in the Book of Mormon, which forbids polygyny and claims to be the Fullness of the Gospel (thus any major gospel doctrine not endorsed by the BoM is not part of the BoM gospel). And any church that _rejects_ polygny and denies that it is the “New and Everlasting Covenant” has rejected the revelations of the prophet Joseph Smith, specifically Doctrine and Covenants section 132. You will never find a church that truly believes both Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/51 "2011-03-09T23:55:20Z")
Why not go for it, one bunch of lies is as good as another. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/52 "2011-03-10T00:39:22Z")
> [@Rhodes](#): > > Well, it doesn’t seemed to have been deliberately planned by Brigham Young himself. But Brigham’s doctrines of Blood Atonement, non-cooperation with the US government, and vengeance of the blood of Joseph, Hyrum, and Parley created an atmosphere of bloodlust in southern Utah. And no one doubts that Brigham was involved in the cover-up. I read some more about the attack yesterday, as well as an attack a few months earlier in the same area. Parshall, Ardis E. (2005), “‘Pursue, Retake and Punish’: The 1857 Santa Clara Ambush” (PDF), Utah Historical Quarterly 73 (1): 64–86, [http://history.utah.gov/history\_programs/utah\_historic\_quarterly/table\_of\_contents/documents/Winter2005-v73-01.pdf](http://history.utah.gov/history_programs/utah_historic_quarterly/table_of_contents/documents/Winter2005-v73-01.pdf). Very interesting. I had to go to the Utah Historical Quarterly site and then search within it. > [@Heyoka13](#): > > If The Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times is the one correct church, and you have picked The Church of the New Covenant of Christ, obviously, you have displeased God, mightily, and the consequences for your soul will be grave. Damn. I hate it when that happens. > [@Rhodes](#): > > Exactly. > > And any church that _accepts_ polygyny to be the “New and Everlasting Covenant” has rejected the teachings in the Book of Mormon, which forbids polygyny and claims to be the Fullness of the Gospel (thus any major gospel doctrine not endorsed by the BoM is not part of the BoM gospel). > > And any church that _rejects_ polygny and denies that it is the “New and Everlasting Covenant” has rejected the revelations of the prophet Joseph Smith, specifically Doctrine and Covenants section 132. > > You will never find a church that truly believes both Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Unfortunately, there aren’t any formal splinter churches which happened after the first edition of the Book of Mormon was printed in 1830, where God and Jesus are the same, but before it was revised in 1835(?) for them to be separate individuals. None of this is meaningless for never-Mormons, but when you grew up going to church several days a week, as well as taking seminary daily in junior and senior high school, and everyone is always bragging that We Have The Truth, The Whole Truth and it’s Always Been This Way[sup]TM[/sup], then it comes as a surprise to find out that Mormonism was made up and pulled out of Joseph Smith’s ass as he went along. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/53 "2011-03-10T01:07:38Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Leaving aside the excluded middle here, how is this different from any religion that makes fantastic or supernatural claims? I would think it obvious that there are millions of people and many churches that consider themselves Christian but have an opinion about which portions of the gospel and church tradition are valid that differ widely from orthodox Christianity. One could be a Christian while believing most of John’s gospel to be invalid, for instance. However, I’m not aware of any individual or church that accepts Nephi but not Alma. The Book of Mormon is an all-or-nothing proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/54 "2011-03-10T02:48:52Z")
I don’t have much of substance to add to this thread, but it jarred me a little when you wrote: > [@sassyfras](#): > > I don’t really have much religious passion **but everyone has a spiritual side** … Bolding mine. I know you didn’t mean it this way so please understand that I’m not castigating you, but declaring that _everyone_ has a spiritual side comes off a bit presumptuous as it is something no one could possibly know. I don’t have a spiritual side, at all, and I certainly consider myself a member of ‘everyone’. As far as whether or not you should become a Mormon, why not? If you feel the faith calling you and the idea of belonging to such an organization gives you comfort, who’s to say it’s wrong for you? Many find comfort and fulfillment in Mormonism, just as many find the same in faiths of all stripes and doctrines. I don’t see a significant difference between the proposals and outcomes of Mormonism, Protestantism, Catholicism, or any other flavor of Christianity. Mormonism is just a slightly novel slant on the same illogic, anti-intellectualism, fear-mongering, racism, theistic colonialism, and opportunism that so-called mainstream Christianity has profited from greatly for centuries. If you’re wired with a strong desire for community and camaraderie at a level you perceive to be deeper than, say, membership in a book club, it may as well be an organization you’re already inclined to feel good about. I’m an atheist, and consider theistic faith to be harmful to humanity, and its followers pawns. However, I’m, perhaps selfishly, less concerned to see someone find contentment and quiet peace within their chosen faith, than those who self-righteously collude with its more aggressive element, haughtily wrapped in the trappings of faith, while actively seeking to destroy others in the promotion of hive-mind ignorance and subjugation. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/55 "2011-03-10T04:29:46Z")
> [@Heyoka13](#): > > Anyone considering a switch to Mormonism, URGENTLY needs to evaluate ALL the branches of this church. Clearly, being biggest is no sign of correctness, considering the enormous changes the Salt Lake City branch has wrought, I can scarcely imagine them to be, in fact, the correct implementation of Joseph Smith’s church. > > Investigate, investigate, investigate! Or in the alternative, come to the realisation that you are clearly wasting your frickin’ time, since if _any_ church was the **One True Church** they’d hardly be some trivial sub-sect of a trivial sect of a trivial religion that such debate was even possible over. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/56 "2011-03-10T12:46:49Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > If you read the free book they gave you, then don’t end up joining their church for life, that’s pretty much like stealing from them. Just like getting up to go to the bathroom when the commercials come on. I like this. Very Much. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/57 "2011-03-11T00:04:41Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I would think it obvious that there are millions of people and many churches that consider themselves Christian but have an opinion about which portions of the gospel and church tradition are valid that differ widely from orthodox Christianity. One could be a Christian while believing most of John’s gospel to be invalid, for instance. However, I’m not aware of any individual or church that accepts Nephi but not Alma. The Book of Mormon is an all-or-nothing proposition. I’m not sure I understand your point. For any given faith, there are a set of holy texts/tenets that people of that faith hold to be true. You can’t be a part of that faith without pretty solidly believing in those texts/tenets. What difference does it make that there are a bunch of different variations that use different subsets of books in the bible and elsewhere, all referred to under the heading of Christian, and this particular variation that uses, among its non-biblical material, uses these books? It sounds like this boils down to “Don’t be a Mormon unless you believe what Mormons believe.” Which seems pretty self-evident, but, again, how is that any different for any other individual faith? If you’re saying that the variations that exist in Christian groups makes it more palatable, I claim you’re just not being specific enough. Why not expand it to “Don’t join an Abrahamic faith unless you believe what [at least one] Abrahamic faith group believes.” There, now Mormons don’t sound so scary. And aren’t there different subsets of belief within Mormanism as well? There are, at the very least, the splinter groups that still practice polygamy. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/58 "2011-03-11T13:24:56Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > For any given faith, there are a set of holy texts/tenets that people of that faith hold to be true. You can’t be a part of that faith without pretty solidly believing in those texts/tenets. What difference does it make that there are a bunch of different variations that use different subsets of books in the bible and elsewhere, all referred to under the heading of Christian, and this particular variation that uses, among its non-biblical material, uses these books? I don’t believe this is true. There a many Christians who don’t necessary believe that even the New Testament is a faxed copy of the word of god, let alone accept the Old Testament. The history of the Bible is well-known, and it’s common knowledge that the Gospels were not written until decades after Jesus died. However, the Book of Mormon was supposed to have been translated by Joseph Smith through the power of God (via a magic “peep stone” he found while digging for buried treasure, but that’s not commonly discussed among the “faithful”) so you pretty much have to accept it all or not. ---
**Author:** ![Heyoka13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Heyoka13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heyoka13)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/59 "2011-03-11T14:49:41Z")
I remain amazed at how little of the Bible most (nearly all) contemporary ‘mainline’ US ‘Christians’ believe to be the Word of God. It is this bizarre fact that makes such entities as Landover Baptist such stunning eye openers. And another problem with this tepid acceptance of their ‘franchise agreement’ is that it seems every slight alteration in what is emphasized and what is ignored in the bible spawns yet another schism. How many denominations of Christianity are there now? Supposedly, God is not the author of confusion (unlike Joseph Smith), and yet confusion reigns across the ‘Christian’ world regarding the applicability of His words. God commands (sorry, don’t have the chapter and verse handy) to keep all His scriptures, and to not add to them. This is the first edict ignored when ever a Bible reader encounters some inconvenient Biblical truth. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522/60 "2011-03-11T17:06:15Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I’m not sure I understand your point. > > For any given faith, there are a set of holy texts/tenets that people of that faith hold to be true. You can’t be a part of that faith without pretty solidly believing in those texts/tenets. > … > It sounds like this boils down to “Don’t be a Mormon unless you believe what Mormons believe.” Which seems pretty self-evident, but, again, how is that any different for any other individual faith? If you learn about what the LDS Church requires of its members in terms of testimony, you will see that it expects members to testify about Joseph Smith as a true prophet and the Church itself the sole legitimate church as a result of that. A mainline Christian church requires no such thing. My church, the Episcopal Church, is opening and welcome to those who are absolutely certain that the Jesus of the Gospels was who He said he was, to those who waver back and forth, and to those who do not believe but are in the process of investigating. The LDS Church is not. There is a world of difference between the two. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-got-a-free-book-should-i-become-a-mormon/573522.md?page=4)