# I Gotta Split. Paradox? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391 "2005-10-22T04:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/161 "2005-11-02T15:09:58Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > No, because my identical twin has **different memories** , starting from the difference in that he was born minutes before or after me and occupied a different point in space throughout childhood. The duplicate has _exactly the same_ memories as me, and therefore I continue _as_ him. I’ll assume that you hit the Submit Reply button before you had a chance to read what you wrote. The reason you will feel carried on in your duplicate is because you have the same memories? C’mon! As you British like to say, “that’s daft!” For all intent and purpose, your duplicate or splone is nothing more than a very accurate identical twin. You will feel no more carried on in your duplicate as you would in your twin. The only difference between a twin and a duplicate is that the duplicate has your memories in his brain and your twin has his own memories. Your twin’s and duplicates futures are both different from yours. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/162 "2005-11-02T15:11:49Z")
And further, if by “identical twins” you meant the _extra_ duplicates, they are **all** “my” POV, bifurcating in different directions from the point of duplication. The original atoms are _just as much “me”_ as the duplicates. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/163 "2005-11-02T15:13:26Z")
> [@TibbyCat](#): > > For all intent and purpose, your duplicate or splone is nothing more than a very accurate identical twin. As will your body be in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/164 "2005-11-02T15:15:08Z")
> [@TibbyCat](#): > > The reason you will feel carried on in your duplicate is because you have the same memories? Yes. This is what I have now been repeating explicitly for 4 pages. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/165 "2005-11-02T15:15:49Z")
No, I mean a real identical twin. The kind that did not undergo mitosis since being in utero. Is there any other difference between the duplicate and the twin except for past memories? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/166 "2005-11-02T15:17:25Z")
> [@TibbyCat](#): > > Is there any other difference between the duplicate and the twin except for past memories? Nothing that is particularly relevent to the discussion, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/167 "2005-11-02T15:18:31Z")
If we could simply engrain your past memories into your identical twin, would you feel like him too? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/168 "2005-11-02T15:20:57Z")
> [@TibbyCat](#): > > If we could simply engrain your past memories into your identical twin, would you feel like him too? **YES.**. Like I said back on page 1 several days ago, I **am** my memories: they are the _only_ constant in “me” since the matter itself continually changes. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/169 "2005-11-02T15:22:11Z")
If your identical twin had your past memories could we say that you are the same person! Could we point to two people and say, “that’s Bob”? And you don’t think that your position doesn’t sound a little pseudo-scientific, but mine does??? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/170 "2005-11-02T15:27:25Z")
> [@](#): > > If your identical twin had your past memories could we say that you are the same person! Could we point to two people and say, “that’s Bob”? If they occupied different spatial locations, the memories they were in the process of accruing as you pointed your finger would be different: you _could_ then call one “Bob left” and “Bob right”, because they would _not_ then have identical memories. > [@](#): > > And you don’t think that your position doesn’t sound a little pseudo-scientific, but mine does??? No, because I have included links to the biological science which shows that “you” _cannot be_ the atoms themselves since they change so regularly. Again, I answered your question even though I thought it irrelevant. Please extend the same courtesy to me. Your answers should make some reference to exchange of atoms and to the _arrangement_ of those atoms if you do indeed understand basic biology. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/171 "2005-11-02T15:27:24Z")
> [@Tibbycat](#): > > If your identical twin had your past memories could we say that you are the same person! Could we point to two people and say, “that’s Bob”? No, of course we would find it highly confusing (as you appear to be finding it) to be in that situation; the reason for that confusion is that _this never happens in real life_, so we simply don’t have the intuitive ability to deal with it. We would point to one person and say “that’s Bob”, then we would point to the other and say “Oh, hang on, _that’s_ Bob”, then we would be confused about which one was Bob. > [@](#): > > And you don’t think that your position doesn’t sound a little pseudo-scientific, but mine does??? You still haven’t managed to explain why one person would be Bob and the other would not. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/172 "2005-11-02T15:32:54Z")
Does a mother feel carried on into her (real) identical twins? Does she feel as though she is them? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/173 "2005-11-02T15:37:24Z")
> [@TibbyCat](#): > > Does a mother feel carried on into her (real) identical twins? Does she feel as though she is them? No, because they have different memories (based on occupying different spatial locations _at the same time_). Please answer my direct questions. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/174 "2005-11-02T15:40:38Z")
(warning: the text below contains an analogy: we do not mean “childbirth” in the conventional manner). The splone experiment is nothing more than you giving birth to identical twins. You (the mother of the twins) died at childbirth. Period. The red herring is the question: If I died at childbirth, where is the body? The answer: You died when you were ripped apart. One-half of you went into forming twin number one; the other half of you went into twin number two. You died and your twins live on as their own selves, as independent of each other as they are to their dead mother. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/175 "2005-11-02T15:44:23Z")
> [@TibbyCat](#): > > The splone experiment is nothing more than you giving birth to identical twins. You (the mother of the twins) died at childbirth. Period. No it isn’t. Natural identical twins do not possess their mother’s memories. > [@](#): > > The splone experiment is nothing more than you giving birth to identical twins. You (the mother of the twins) died at childbirth. Period. Then you die between now and 2008 and give birth to your identical twin. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/176 "2005-11-02T15:50:12Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > We would point to one person and say “that’s Bob”, then we would point to the other and say “Oh, hang on, _that’s_ Bob”, then we would be confused about which one was Bob. How would Bob or Bob reply when you ask them who that other guy was? Would they say, that’s me? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/177 "2005-11-02T15:51:57Z")
> [@TibbyCat](#): > > How would Bob or Bob reply when you ask them who that other guy was? > Would they say, that’s me? No, because they are distinguished by the memories they have accrued _since_ the memory transfer. Please answer my direct questions regarding lungs and death. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/178 "2005-11-02T15:53:10Z")
Forget right or wrong for the moment, you have to at least admit that your position sounds a bit more outlandish than mine, right? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/179 "2005-11-02T15:56:10Z")
> [@TibbyCat](#): > > Forget right or wrong for the moment, you have to at least admit that your position sounds a bit more outlandish than mine, right? Science often yields counterintuitive answers which take a while for one to accept. They are still _right_ answers. _Your_ answers? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391/180 "2005-11-02T15:56:38Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Please answer my direct questions regarding lungs and death. Why? According to you, my lungs are going to die tonight and I’m going to asphyxiate before I wake up! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391.md?page=10)