# I guess I \_do\_ cause animal deaths when I eat pre-killed meat. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450 "2015-04-24T16:02:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/21 "2015-04-24T17:49:27Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > True enough, and as a hunter (though not farmer) I recognize that too. But we’ve had people on this board argue that killing your own food is somehow morally inferior to going to the butcher. Really!? That seems insane to me, but here in recent posts we have people positing that there is such a thing as “no-net-kill meat” and that there is a moral distinction between wasting part of an animal vs. wasting an entire animal. > [@](#): > > Hell, back in my single days, I went on a date (ONE date, mind you) with a woman who was horrified that I hunt and lectured me on its immorality, while eating a cheeseburger. Well, duh, because her cheeseburger was _already dead_, it’s not like she had anything to do with it! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/22 "2015-04-24T17:51:18Z")
Yeah, and when you eat a salad, you cause _plants_ to die! Come to think of it, when you eat an animal, you cause plants to die, too! Is there no way out of this madness? I think I’ll just stand over here and try to photosynthesize. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/23 "2015-04-24T17:52:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > … But an uneaten piece of shrimp left on a buffet line means that little animal was killed just to make that one piece of food and then nobody ate it. It’s like his life was sacrificed for nothing. When I was a kid we always had Thanksgiving at my grandparents’ house. Grandpa always did the invocation in a profoundly secular fashion as fit everyone’s beliefs. And first on the list to be thanked was “the bird who gave his/her all for our meal”. Which never failed to get a groan from Grandma who had just spent umpteen hours converting said bird into said feast. Not that she thought she deserved first billing for all her work, merely that pointing out the dead bird was unseemly. To this day when I do a formal dinner we have an invocation for the dearly deceased donor. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/24 "2015-04-24T17:59:12Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Yeah, and when you eat a salad, you cause _plants_ to die! > > Come to think of it, when you eat an animal, you cause plants to die, too! Is there no way out of this madness? > > I think I’ll just stand over here and try to photosynthesize. and when you eat plants, you cause some animals to die what with all the tilling of the ground and disposing of vermin. There’s no way to win. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/25 "2015-04-24T18:44:22Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > When cows rule the earth, and we’re all dragged before a bovine equivalent of Nuremberg, I’ll still claim, “I never actually killed anyone. I was only placing orders.” This post should not go unnoticed. Well played, sir. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/26 "2015-04-24T18:47:19Z")
I only eat meat from animals that committed suicide. I get my fur coats that way too. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/27 "2015-04-24T18:49:04Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Yeah, and when you eat a salad, you cause _plants_ to die! > > Come to think of it, when you eat an animal, you cause plants to die, too! Is there no way out of this madness? > > I think I’ll just stand over here and try to photosynthesize. Yeah. Might as well shoot your neighbor as well. I mean, you’re always causing something do die, so there’s no point in drawing meaningful distinctions. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/28 "2015-04-24T18:52:35Z")
In the immortal words of “Cows with Guns” [Cows With Guns - The Original Animation - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI) … They eat to grow grow to die die to be et at the hamburger fry ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/29 "2015-04-24T19:10:34Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Whoosh! > (I hope) [You think](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsdmqhn50uM)? > [@Sunspace](#): > > Yeah, and when you eat a salad, you cause _plants_ to die! > > Come to think of it, when you eat an animal, you cause plants to die, too! Is there no way out of this madness? > > I think I’ll just stand over here and try to photosynthesize. On the topic of the Simpsons: "I’m a level 5 vegan. I won’t eat anything that casts a shadow. " ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/30 "2015-04-24T20:06:04Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > I’m a little baffled at your previous line of thinking. Of course eating a hamburger causes an animal to be killed, hamburgers come from dead animals. How can my eating it _now_ cause an animal to have died _in the past_? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/31 "2015-04-24T20:10:46Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > How can my eating it _now_ cause an animal to have died _in the past_? It could cause another one in the future, to replenish the supply chain. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/32 "2015-04-24T20:21:03Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > How can my eating it _now_ cause an animal to have died _in the past_? You’re including the supply chain in your thinking, which is…misleading? If there were not a network of supermarkets, trucking companies, slaughterhouses, CAFOs, etc available, and you wanted to eat a hamburger, you would have to kill a cow or steer (it occurs to me that we are sincerely lacking in a singular form for “cattle”) to get a hamburger. The fact that those things exist to supply you with a pre-made hamburger for 99¢ at the drive-thru is a matter of convenience, but it doesn’t nullify your culpability. Here’s an even simpler explanation, now that I’m thinking about it, how could you be eating it _now_ if it hadn’t died _in the past_? ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/33 "2015-04-24T20:24:22Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > It could cause another one in the future, to replenish the supply chain. True, but when I eat a hamburger, there is not some philosophical future cow that is dying to provide it, there is a real dead cow. It died because someone _anticipated_ that I (or you, or **Frylock** ) would want a hamburger. Therefore, by eating hamburgers we are culpable for the death of the animals that provide them, because we have created the demand. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/34 "2015-04-24T20:40:20Z")
They say “it takes all kinds of critters to make Farmer Vincent’s fritters.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/35 "2015-04-24T21:36:57Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > It could cause another one in the future, to replenish the supply chain. **Ludovic!** Did you read the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/36 "2015-04-24T21:40:50Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > You’re including the supply chain in your thinking, which is…misleading? I am not sure what you mean when you refer to my including the supply chain in my thinking. I included it in my later thinking–that’s what led me to see I’m causing animal deaths usually when I eat meat. But I did _not_ include it in my former thinking. To clarify, and summarize the OP: My former thinking was: The animal is already dead, so eating it does not cause its death. There’s no other relevant animal to think about than the one that died to make this meat, therefore, when one eats a piece of meat, one does not thereby cause an animal death. (Animal deaths are necessary for meat eating, but the eating of the meat does not cause the death.) Does that clear up how one can reasonably think eating a piece of meat does not cause an animal death? That was what you said you were baffled by. New thinking: When I buy this meat to eat it, I cause a hole in the supply chain which will propagate back to the source, issuing in the death of another animal. Hence, eating meat usually does cause animal deaths. The new thinking is where I start taking the supply chain into account. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/37 "2015-04-24T22:44:15Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Yeah, and when you eat a salad, you cause _plants_ to die! > > Come to think of it, when you eat an animal, you cause plants to die, too! Is there no way out of this madness? > > I think I’ll just stand over here and try to photosynthesize. Best Username/Post combo I’ve seen in a while! Well played! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/38 "2015-04-24T22:55:08Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Did you know that bacon, pork, and ham come from the same animal? Yeah right Lisa, a wonderful “magical” animal. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/39 "2015-04-24T23:32:23Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > My former thinking was: The animal is already dead, so eating it does not cause its death. There’s no other relevant animal to think about than the one that died to make this meat, therefore, when one eats a piece of meat, one does not thereby cause an animal death. (Animal deaths are necessary for meat eating, but the eating of the meat does not cause the death.) > > Does that clear up how one can reasonably think eating a piece of meat does not cause an animal death? Of course it doesn’t. The animal was only killed because of the anticipation that people like us would want to eat them. They didn’t kill the cows on the vague hope that someone would eat them, they had past demand to prove to them that we would. By eating the burger you prove them right. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450/40 "2015-04-24T23:35:42Z")
Are you guys familiar with the idea that there is no such thing as backward causation? In other words, the idea that no effect can precede its cause in time? Do you see the relevance here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-_do_-cause-animal-deaths-when-i-eat-pre-killed-meat/718450.md?page=3)