# I guess I should have expected this: Bible-based geocentrism proponents **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749 "2006-05-14T19:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/41 "2006-05-16T20:32:17Z")
> [@](#): > > He has just completed a 1,000-page tome, “Galileo Was Wrong,” the first in a pair of books he hopes will persuade readers to “give Scripture its due place and show that science is not all it’s cracked up to be.” I’m all for giving the scripture its due place – in the bottom of my Aunt Tessie’s hope chest. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/42 "2006-05-16T21:31:35Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but since everything is relative anyway, isn’t saying that the universe revolves around the Earth no less valid than saying the universe revolves around Any Other Point You Care To Choose? What **Mangetout** said. Also, the heliocentric model is just more economical, more elegant. The planets go 'round the sun in neat, constant, elliptical orbits. Whereas a geocentric model requires a profusion of “epicycles”. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicycle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicycle) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/43 "2006-05-16T21:36:49Z")
From the article linked in the OP: “If you see the Earth as just a humdrum planet among stars circling in a vast universe, then we’re not significant, we’re just part of a crowd,” Sungenis said. “But if you believe everything revolves around Earth, it gives another picture: of purpose, a meaning of life.” That about sums it up, I think. By “geocentric” he really means “anthropocentric.” Nothing in Bible clearly says which goes around which, but a geocentric model accords better with the Christian world-view: The most important thing in the Universe, to Christians, is not God. God is the best, wisest and most powerful thing in the Universe. But the most **important** thing in the Universe is the individual human soul. That’s what it’s all about. This whole material Universe is nothing but scenery for a morality play, a proving-ground to determine where each soul shall spend eternity after its brief time on Earth. And they call skeptics “humanists.” As a term of opprobrium. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/44 "2006-05-16T21:38:23Z")
Sorry, here’s the quote: > [@](#): > > “If you see the Earth as just a humdrum planet among stars circling in a vast universe, then we’re not significant, we’re just part of a crowd,” Sungenis said. “But if you believe everything revolves around Earth, it gives another picture: of purpose, a meaning of life.” (I urled when I should have quoted. Forgive me. To url is human.) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/45 "2006-05-17T01:25:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But the most **important** thing in the Universe is the individual human soul. That’s what it’s all about. This whole material Universe is nothing but scenery for a morality play, a proving-ground to determine where each soul shall spend eternity after its brief time on Earth. Sorry, no. The meaning of life, the universe, everything is 42. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/46 "2006-05-17T01:44:48Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Noper, since at least the ancient Greeks it was known that the sun is much bigger than the earth. Yeah but … during the Middle Ages, and even still today for many, what the ancient Greeks knew was largely forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/47 "2006-05-17T03:05:43Z")
> [@TJdude825](#): > > How do geocentrists explain the changing seasons? I can’t figure out how they would be possible without the earth revolving around the sun. It revolves at a 23 degree inclination to the Equator. > [@TJdude825](#): > > Geocentrism also imples that the earth doesn’t spin around a north-south axis, correct? So how could geosynchronous satellites exist? They’d essentially be “hovering” wouldn’t they? Ummmmmm . . . why? First of all the Earth could still rotate in a Geocentric system. Second, prove that geosynchronous satellites exist. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/48 "2006-05-17T10:12:01Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Yeah but … during the Middle Ages, and even still today for many, what the ancient Greeks knew was largely forgotten. Not by many practicing astronomers, though. And definitely not by the time of Tycho Brahe in the sixteenth century. Tycho knew everything about observational and theoretical astronomy that the ancient Greeks knew, and then some. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/49 "2006-05-17T13:15:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Not by many practicing astronomers, though. And definitely not by the time of Tycho Brahe in the sixteenth century. Tycho knew everything about observational and theoretical astronomy that the ancient Greeks knew, and then some. Of course, but few practicing astronomers today accept the geocentric model. The OP’s concern was about the growth of the acceptance of the model among the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/50 "2006-05-17T15:06:56Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > The OP’s concern was about the growth of the acceptance of the model among the general public. Right, but what **Voyager** was asking me about, and what I was replying to in the post that you responded to, was the information that an educated professional astronomer like Tycho Brahe would have had. You are quite right that the average **uneducated** person in the Middle Ages, or even in Tycho Brahe’s day (or even today), knew pretty much jack-ship about mathematical astronomy, and would have been unable to make a scientifically informed decision between a geocentric and a heliocentric model of the solar system. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/51 "2006-05-17T15:14:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Sorry, here’s the quote: > > (I urled when I should have quoted. Forgive me. To url is human.) And you are the Duke of Url. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/52 "2006-05-17T18:15:54Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > First of all the Earth could still rotate in a Geocentric system. It could, but Sungenis insists it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/53 "2006-05-17T20:13:14Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > It revolves at a 23 degree inclination to the Equator. > > Ummmmmm . . . why? > First of all the Earth could still rotate in a Geocentric system. > Second, prove that geosynchronous satellites exist. If the Earth rotates and it takes the sun (this sounds so dumb to say) a year to circle the earth then yes. But according to our friend here the earth does not revolve. A geocentric model where that happens would have a sun whipping around the earth in 24 hours and over a year shifting its position to account for the seasons. That’s one hell of a controlled wobble. Let’s hope he doesn’t want to advocate a flat earth as well or we’ll really have to do some figuring. BTW Years ago I recall seeing a 3d model of one of the last geocentric models. You could turn the planetsts around the earth to represent the year but you also have two second levers to create the loopy retrodrage motion of venus and Mars ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/54 "2006-05-18T08:04:25Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > If the Earth rotates and it takes the sun (this sounds so dumb to say) a year to circle the earth then yes. But according to our friend here the earth does not revolve. A geocentric model where that happens would have a sun whipping around the earth in 24 hours and over a year shifting its position to account for the seasons. > > That’s one hell of a controlled wobble. You’re forgetting the effect of intelligent design. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/55 "2006-05-18T15:37:19Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > You’re forgetting the effect of intelligent design. It makes the very term “intelligent design” seem as ridiculous as the concept it describes, doesn’t it? For all this to work the way IDers want it to, it would in fact have to be a Stupid and Needlessly Complex Design, not an intelligent one at all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/56 "2006-05-19T06:25:53Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but since everything is relative anyway, isn’t saying that the universe revolves around the Earth no less valid than saying the universe revolves around Any Other Point You Care To Choose? A few posters have given some specific reasons that this doesn’t work. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe we can sum up all those reasons under, “That would not be an _inertial_ frame of reference.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/57 "2006-05-19T14:32:45Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > Let’s hope he doesn’t want to advocate a flat earth as well or we’ll really have to do some figuring. Believe it or not, the Flat Earth Society still exists, sort of. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat\_Earth\_Society](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society) At an SF convention, I once saw a message-button: “Flat Mars Society”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/58 "2006-05-19T14:39:25Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > Let’s hope he doesn’t want to advocate a flat earth as well or we’ll really have to do some figuring. Believe it or not, the Flat Earth Society still exists, sort of. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat\_Earth\_Society](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society) At an SF convention, I once saw a message-button: “Flat Mars Society”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/59 "2006-05-20T23:55:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Believe it or not, the Flat Earth Society still exists, sort of. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat\_Earth\_Society](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society) And if you think that’s the dumbest thing you ever heard, you haven’t heard of Cyrus Teed, who proposed a Hollow Earth theory – only we’re living on the **inside!** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow\_Earth\_theory#Concave\_hollow\_Earths[/ur]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth_theory#Concave_hollow_Earths%5B/ur%5D) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749/60 "2006-05-20T23:57:30Z")
Try that again: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow\_Earth\_theory#Concave\_hollow\_Earths](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth_theory#Concave_hollow_Earths) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-i-should-have-expected-this-bible-based-geocentrism-proponents/356749.md?page=2)