# I guess it's Asshat Day - latest asshat: Newt! "Bush-Obama Plan"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734 "2009-02-28T00:34:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/141 "2009-03-02T15:40:27Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > The CATO Institute is a corporate shill full of libertarian loons not a reputable think tank. Anyone who associates with them, or for that matter cites them as an authority, cannot be taken seriously. > > You might as well use Pravda as a cite for the existence of UFO’s or Bigfoot. Did you actually read that cite? It ain’t CATO. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/142 "2009-03-02T16:00:20Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Why don’t you try it sometime, chum? I usually _do_ provide cites when asked, and without all the caterwalling you put up. It’d kill you to show any grace whatsoever, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/143 "2009-03-02T16:12:59Z")
Well, now, to be strictly fair (as is my wont)… In my (limited) exposure to Cato, they play pretty square. They say that the undersigned economists reject the Keynesian formula in favor of a doctrinaire libertarian approach: cut taxes, stay out of the way, and everything will sort itself out. I take them at their word, I am content that they do, in fact, believe that (with variations, of course…a rough consensus) And, of course, there are dissidents at the other end of this. Krugman, for instance, believes that we aren’t spending \*enough \*money. How many economists agree with that? A pity he doesn’t have a foundation, we might have an opportunity to get a list of economists who agree with him,and do a comparative head count. My own reading leads me to the opinion that, by and large, Keynesian economics has become the orthodox consensus,and strident dissent from that consensus is a minority view. Obama appears to be acting within that framework of consensus, as one might expect a very intelligent person to do, whose own area of expertise is not economics: he seeks the consensus viewpoint of those who are experts, and acts accordingly. The only reason this would not be so is that said consensus does not exist. And the only evidence offered is the signatories of Cato’s position paper. Roughly, 300. Now, the only reason I brought up the demographics of the American Economists is for a \*very \*rough comparison. There’s just north of 20,000 members. OK, now. It is reasonable to suppose that the economists listed are either members of said organization, or, at least, are cognizant of its existence. And that the rest of the membership is likely equally cognizant of the libertarian viewpoint expressed in the Cato paper. So, clearly, if the Keynesian view was not an accepted consensus, there would have been a lot more signers. A lot more than a few hundred, I daresay. To sum up: if Obama were proposing a plan to land on Venus, I expect him to consult the consensus view of rocket surgeons. Because he is not a rocket surgeon. If he is to propose an emergency plan to counter the effects of the Recent Unpleasantness, I would be worried if he did not consult the consensus view of economists. Because he is not an economist. He has, and this is his plan. Is it workable, is it sound? How the hell should I know, I’m not an economist either! But Obama is smarter than me, and I made the choice to trust his judgment. I voted for him, no takes-back. Is he right? I think so, I hope so. The ointment infesting fly is mass psychology, and mass hysteria. If the people don’t believe it, and start spending money…if the bankers don’t believe it, and start lending money… all such consensus is for naught, we clap, we believe, Tinkerbelle lives. Otherwise, Tinkerbelle dies, and we’re boned. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/144 "2009-03-02T16:23:55Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Did you actually read that cite? It ain’t CATO. The letter signed by all the economists including him is from the CATO Institute. A position as head of Commodity Trading Futures makes him one of the causes of the current problems. Being one of the foxes in charge of the eerily silent hen-house is possibly not the greatest part of any resumee. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/145 "2009-03-02T18:02:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My own reading leads me to the opinion that, by and large, Keynesian economics has become the orthodox consensus,and strident dissent from that consensus is a minority view. Obama appears to be acting within that framework of consensus, as one might expect a very intelligent person to do, whose own area of expertise is not economics: he seeks the consensus viewpoint of those who are experts, and acts accordingly. Why do you conclude this? Not trying to be contrary, and I am certainly no expert, but I haven’t read anything that suggests that Keynesian economics has become the orthodox consensus conclusion, except to Keynesian economists. There are lots of competing economic theories, some are even hybrids of Keynesian and classical schools. The “Keynes resurgence” is a pretty recent phenomenon–the current manifestation, that is. There has been something of a cycle of acceptance, rejection, re-acceptance, hybrid theories, etc. Seriously, what leads you to conclude there is an othodox consensus in economics, a discipline that has defied such a consensus, well, forever. I am interested in your perspective. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/146 "2009-03-02T18:33:58Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > Can I interest you in some Ron Paul? Or maybe you’d like something a little more Constitutional… how about some plain vanilla Libertarian? Libertarian Lite is also tasty, but if you start picking and choosing I can’t guarantee you won’t end up with some Rand “Objectivists” or worse. Choose wisely! > > Oh, and the moderate wing of the Democratic Party is currently for: > > - cutting taxes for most Americans > - cutting wasteful spending like farm subsidies > - ending the war in Iraq > - reducing the cost of health care for all Americans > - enforcing the existing firearms laws before writing new ones > > …so if those sound appealing, don’t be shy – there’s room on the bandwagon (EVEN IF YOU LIKE GAY PEOPLE AND ATHEISTS)! I’m already a Democrat. I left the Republicans during the Reagan years, when they first started getting too “chummy” with the so called the Jerry Falwell types and the “moral majority”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/147 "2009-03-02T18:59:49Z")
I do want to know something (maybe I don’t at that). Since Obama “took over”, the world is doomed, the Great Depression is coming, we are facing mass extiction blah blah blah blah. It’s of course (?) all the fault of Obama and his evil minions. (?) Riddle me this… Did this recession/depression/PermianExtiction/KTEvent happen the day he moved into the White House? OR was it years in the making, under the wise and benevolent care of the previous occupant and his "minions? These things do NOT happen overnight. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/148 "2009-03-02T19:30:15Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] Why do you conclude this?.. [/quote] My meaning from the phrase is that my general interest reading leads me to believe that. I do not read much in economics, the subject bores me to tears. I do not mean to imply any special expertise, only that what I _have_ read leads me to that. It is thin soup, I don’t pretend otherwise. > [@](#): > > …I am interested in your perspective… After two pages of venomous slander, you expect me to believe that you are politely interested in my perspective? That’s a rather dramatic and unexpected reversal. What brings on this sudden change? And why would I trust it? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/149 "2009-03-02T19:42:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Riddle me this… > > Did this recession/depression/PermianExtiction/KTEvent happen the day he moved into the White House? > OR was it years in the making, under the wise and benevolent care of the previous occupant and his "minions? > > These things do NOT happen overnight. It’s either Obama’s fault, or Clinton’s; opinions are divided. Some people probably think it’s both. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/150 "2009-03-02T19:43:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My meaning from the phrase is that my general interest reading leads me to believe that. I do not read much in economics, the subject bores me to tears. I do not mean to imply any special expertise, only that what I _have_ read leads me to that. It is thin soup, I don’t pretend otherwise. > > After two pages of venomous slander, you expect me to believe that you are politely interested in my perspective? That’s a rather dramatic and unexpected reversal. What brings on this sudden change? And why would I trust it? Sorry, don’t trust it if you’d prefer. I felt interested in this since that’s the second or third time you mentioned it. And I’d suggest you were giving as well as getting. I’ll keep it polite if you will. We’ve had similar exchanges in the past–I don’t carry a grudge. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/151 "2009-03-02T19:44:46Z")
Well, one of us does, and I don’t remember you. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/152 "2009-03-02T19:54:55Z")
Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/153 "2009-03-02T21:49:49Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It’s either Obama’s fault, or Clinton’s; opinions are divided. > > Some people probably think it’s both. Ahhh, I see. It’s all part of The Vast Left Wing Commie Conspiracy. Oh hell, it was supposed to be a secret conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/154 "2009-03-03T06:30:17Z")
Well, I think so, Brain, but if we use up all the commas to make left wings, will we have to use apostrophes to build the right ones? _Naaaarrf!_ ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/155 "2009-03-03T11:12:24Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734/156 "2009-03-03T15:52:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I think so, Brain, but if we use up all the commas to make left wings, will we have to use apostrophes to build the right ones? _Naaaarrf!_ Given the current cranial location of the leaders of the right-wing, I’d suggest colons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-asshat-day-latest-asshat-newt-bush-obama-plan/487734.md?page=7)