# I guess it's hard to find a good sci-fi story on the screen **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 30, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796 "2018-07-30T07:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/21 "2018-07-31T13:21:49Z")
12 Monkeys, TV show version. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/22 "2018-07-31T13:25:05Z")
The recent film Arrival was mentioned upthread. I’d also add [The Arrival](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arrival_(1996_film)), a 1996 film starring Charlie Sheen, before he went off the rails. Also, all three films by Neill Blomkamp; District 9, Elysium and Chappie. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/23 "2018-07-31T13:34:39Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > This demands a definition of “science fiction.” What is science fiction, what is space opera, what is fantasy? Is dreaming up a bizarre world populated by bizarre beings science fiction? One of the great science fiction stories ever was “All Summer in a Day” by Ray Bradbury. If it were to be produced in movie form, it would require nothing strange, no awe, no amazing new world, no special effects whatsoever. But it is a very powerful story. I’d say that science fiction, space opera and fantasy are all different variations of the same theme. In effect, it’s all fantasy stories. Some just have a bit more science in it than others. That’s why the best “science fiction” authors cared little for the distinction between SF and fantasy, moving freely between both genres. Whatever allowed them to tell the story that was in their heads. The way I see, anything that could not exist in the world as we know it, and states that its unnatural elements are science- rather than magic-based, is science fiction. It’s a fairly broad definition, but it’s worked for me so far. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/24 "2018-07-31T14:16:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Speak for yourself. When I think of my favorite classic SF writers - Vance, Zelazny, Herbert, Silverberg et al - little of what they wrote can, in theory, be faithfully translated to the screen without modern special effects. Science fiction may be the literature of ideas, but it’s also the literature of _awe_. Its job is to transport the reader/viewer to an amazing new world, to show them things they haven’t seen before. It’s hard to do that with sock puppets. You can make a movie with special effects without making a movie about special effects. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/25 "2018-07-31T14:22:34Z")
I don’t think today’s “special effects” movies are about special effects, either. Think about it: when was the last time you saw something onscreen and thought, “Wow, how did they do that?” Nobody thinks that anymore, because the answer is always “computers”. To the modern audience, special effects are essentially invisible, as people assume that whatever the filmmakers want to put on the screen, will be onscreen. The very fact that it’s there doesn’t impress anyone any more. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/26 "2018-07-31T14:32:57Z")
I have a DVD copy of Citizen Kane with a commentary track by Roger Ebert. In the commentary, Ebert mentions the various special effects used in the making of the movie and says something like that it’s the equivalent of Star Wars of its day. The point is that special effects have always been used in movies (and theater before) and not always in things like SF films that we identify as special effects movies. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/27 "2018-07-31T14:46:54Z")
Some science fiction movies with modern special effects are good. Some are bad. The _Star Trek_ reboot film was an example of horrible science fiction dressed up in lots of special effects. I maintain that _The Day the Earth Stood Still_ (the original, not the awful remake) sets a standard for how good science fiction can be, even if the special effects are cheesy. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/28 "2018-07-31T14:49:23Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Some science fiction movies with modern special effects are good. Some are bad. The _Star Trek_ reboot film was an example of horrible science fiction dressed up in lots of special effects. Personally, I thought the first one was a good science fiction movie with some bad science. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/29 "2018-07-31T15:17:07Z")
I took the other side of the OP, stating that we’re in a great run of screen-based SF movies. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=811018](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=811018) In it I name check: Arrival Ex Machina The Martian Gravity Europa Report Moon Sunshine Looper Inception District 9 Primer Her And at this point I’d add Safety Not Guaranteed Attack the Block Under the Skin While there’s a certain amount of high-concept effects in these, a lot of the best of them were very spare on the FX and just went with idea+actions=movie and were brilliant. That’s some of the best SF around. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/30 "2018-07-31T15:25:30Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > With computer generated special effects that are nothing less than phenomenal, we are in the golden age of science fiction movies as far as I’m concerned. There isn’t anything that the best science fiction authors can dream up that we can’t make look completely real on the screen. …which makes it so frustrating when they come up with high-budget visually glorious nonsense like _Prometheus_. It’s understandable if some of the science is unrealistic in deference to key elements of the drama of the story. But it’s unforgivable when the science (and most of the plot) is _gratuitously_ incoherent. With so little work and at minimal cost they could have worked with scientific consultants and polished it into something that’s reasonably consistent with reality. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/31 "2018-07-31T16:10:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t think today’s “special effects” movies are about special effects, either. Think about it: when was the last time you saw something onscreen and thought, “Wow, how did they do that?” Nobody thinks that anymore, because the answer is always “computers”. To the modern audience, special effects are essentially invisible, as people assume that whatever the filmmakers want to put on the screen, will be onscreen. The very fact that it’s there doesn’t impress anyone any more. Avatar had a plot that was not essentially a science-focused plot, but did depend on science. But the star of the film was the special effects. Even though we knew it was computer-generated, it was still, “Wow, look at that!” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/32 "2018-07-31T16:38:43Z")
But it was “look how beautiful that is!” That’s the reaction most filmmakers have always tried to evoke, whether they use special effects, lighting, sets, locations or good-looking actors. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/33 "2018-07-31T18:38:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But it was “look how beautiful that is!” That’s the reaction most filmmakers have always tried to evoke, whether they use special effects, lighting, sets, locations or good-looking actors. I believe we are in violent agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/34 "2018-07-31T19:23:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Speak for yourself. When I think of my favorite classic SF writers - Vance, Zelazny, Herbert, Silverberg et al - little of what they wrote can, in theory, be faithfully translated to the screen without modern special effects. Science fiction may be the literature of ideas, but it’s also the literature of _awe_. Its job is to transport the reader/viewer to an amazing new world, to show them things they haven’t seen before. It’s hard to do that with sock puppets. The problem I have isn’t CGI per se. That is fine when it works for the story, like it does in 2001, for instance. I object to where a large chunk of the story comes from the ability to do special effects - like the last part of the “Day the Earth Stood Still” remake. Or lots of ST:TNG, where they wrote scripts involving blowing up things just because they could. There were also episodes where the effects supported the story rather than vice versa, those were better. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/35 "2018-07-31T19:45:24Z")
I will say that Hollywood seems to have finally realized that science consultants work for cheap, and largely seem to have taken the attitude that if it’s nearly as easy to make it right as to make it wrong, they might as well make it right. It’s not universal, of course, but most of the time nowadays when you see a board full of equations in the background, or the like, the equations are real equations, from a field that’s at least tangentially related to what the characters are supposed to be doing with it. A great example of this was _Interstellar_, which featured the world’s first accurate visualization of what a wormhole would look like: The special effects guys had some really fancy ray-tracing computer programs, into which they could feed any equations they wanted, and the equations they fed in were Kip Thorne’s actual wormhole equations, and so they got a wormhole. (Aside: I’m not saying anything about the quality of _Interstellar_ as a story. I’ven’t seen it myself, and I’m no better judge of story quality than anyone else, anyway. But they did yeoman’s work on the science.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/36 "2018-07-31T19:55:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Speak for yourself. When I think of my favorite classic SF writers - Vance, Zelazny, Herbert, Silverberg et al - little of what they wrote can, in theory, be faithfully translated to the screen without modern special effects. Science fiction may be the literature of ideas, but it’s also the literature of _awe_. Its job is to transport the reader/viewer to an amazing new world, to show them things they haven’t seen before. It’s hard to do that with sock puppets. I know where **Little Nemo’s** going though; back when effects were expensive and labor intensive, the story and acting tended to be the primary focus. That’s not to say that there weren’t spectacular effects, but they were typically integrated into the stories better- think “Blade Runner”. Good effects, but the story isn’t dependent on them to get where it’s going. Or for that matter, “Alien” is a good example; great effects, but the meat of the story is in the suspense and tension and Ripley getting away, not in crazy effects-heavy fight scenes or anything like that. By contrast, you have movies like the Star Wars prequels, where 25% better writing and 25% less awesome effects would have paid huge dividends. Ideally you want both; “The Fifth Element” is a good example of a movie with stunning effects and a fun story. And in some cases, you just can’t really tell the story on the screen effectively without a lot of modern-day effects “The Expanse” comes to mind as a sci-fi series that couldn’t be done well if the effects budget was small. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/37 "2018-08-02T10:04:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The problem I have isn’t CGI per se. That is fine when it works for the story, like it does in 2001, for instance. I think I can safely say there was not a scrap of CGI in _2001_. Not even in the trippy bits. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/38 "2018-08-02T11:35:49Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The problem I have isn’t CGI per se. That is fine when it works for the story, like it does in 2001, for instance. I object to where a large chunk of the story comes from the ability to do special effects - like the last part of the “Day the Earth Stood Still” remake. Or lots of ST:TNG, where they wrote scripts involving blowing up things just because they could. There were also episodes where the effects supported the story rather than vice versa, those were better. In your first stentence did you mean SFX rather than CGI, because the effects in _2001_ were all practical. I agree with the rest of the statement, and since I’m going through TNG right now, I am appalled at the number of arrogant diplomats they had to haul around. The definition of “Diplomacy” must have drifted a bit by the 24th century. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/39 "2018-08-02T18:09:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think I can safely say there was not a scrap of CGI in _2001_. Not even in the trippy bits. Not even on the computer screens. Those were all back-projections. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796/40 "2018-08-02T18:28:06Z")
I like sci-fi but not fantasy or super hero. I echo my esteemed colleagues who have mentioned _Moon_, \*Primer \*and _The Martian_. Does **Mad Max:Fury Road** count as sci-fi? We watched it (and the original MM) at the sci-fi film marathon I go to. It was excellent! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-its-hard-to-find-a-good-sci-fi-story-on-the-screen/818796.md?page=3)