# I Guess this Rich Fuckin' Banker \[Dominique Strauss-Kahn\] is Too Cheap to Hire a Hooker **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956 "2011-05-15T02:17:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/361 "2011-07-02T20:27:53Z")
Just saw this on the Fox News site: > [@](#): > > The New York City hotel maid who accused former International Monetary Fund chief Dominique-Strauss Kahn of sexual assault has allegedly worked as a prostitute, the New York Post reports. > > A source close to the defense investigation told the Post that the Sofitel Hotel housekeeper would have sex with male guests at the hotel for money. > > “There is information… of her getting extraordinary tips,” the source told the Post. > > The source also said that the maid had “a lot of her expenses – hair braiding, salon expenses – paid for by men not related to her.” [Cite](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/02/hotel-maid-accusing-strauss-kahn-rape-reportedly-worked-as-prostitute/?test=latestnews) It’s looking more and more like this woman wasn’t quite the “good Muslim girl” she was alleged to be shortly after the alleged crime took place. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/362 "2011-07-02T20:31:01Z")
Gotta stop doing that, **Starkers**. Meth is really bad for your brain, Fox News runs a close second. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/363 "2011-07-02T20:36:43Z")
Hey, if you can have Soros, Huffpo & MSNBC I should certainly be allowed Fox News. Besides, the actual info is from the NY Post, remember? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/364 "2011-07-02T21:45:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hey, if you can have Soros, Huffpo & MSNBC I should certainly be allowed Fox News. > > Besides, the actual info is from the NY Post, remember? The Post isn’t a whole lot better. Besides, this is all information coming from an anonymous source on DSK’s legal team. Considering how untrustworthy the information is, what stands out is how vague the accusations are. That she was spending an awful lot of money (but not saying how much) on hair braiding? That her tips were unusually large? What does that mean, except that it’s open season on this woman? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/365 "2011-07-02T21:47:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hey, if you can have Soros, Huffpo & MSNBC I should certainly be allowed Fox News. > > Besides, the actual info is from the NY Post, remember? The New York Post has never been considered a terribly reliable source. Moreover, what the Post cites as proof of this claim is “a source close to the defense”. Obviously DSK’s legal team is going to say anything they can to make her look bad and the fact that the Post’s source is only giving this information anonymously should mean it should be taken with a huge grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/366 "2011-07-02T22:03:25Z")
I’m sure the truth will come out in due time. But for all the whinging about how unreliable the Post is, I can’t recall the last time I posted something the Post published which was later shown to be specious. And all news organizations rely on anonymous “sources”. Clearly there are major problems with the way this woman has been living her life or Kahn wouldn’t be out on his own recognizance. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/367 "2011-07-02T23:20:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And all news organizations rely on anonymous “sources”. Well, if you’re going to dodge the question, it’s good that you at least do so completely transparently. In case you;re really just too dumb to understand, I’ll explain. Anonymous sources are not always unreliable. However, when an anonymous source working for the defense spreads innuendo about the accuser, it is unreliable. So much so that only the Post would publish it. There is no specific allegation being made. The individual who is spreading the innuendo can hide behind anonymity and so say anything he wants, and has a vested interest in smearing the accuser. There is no mention of why, when she was taken to the hospital after making the initial report, she had a torn ligament in her shoulder. Assuming DSK is telling the truth, he administered an NFL-level injury on a total stranger in the course of an anonymous hookup. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/368 "2011-07-03T00:05:59Z")
I have a torn ligament in my shoulder too. It’s been torn since early last September. I also have five relatively minor injuries/tears to the shoulder “socket” and rotator cuff and fractured the top (“ball”) of the arm bone. Did it all when I tripped and fell over some ladders while holding another one by the rungs. It might be possible to tell how long ago it happened based upon how the bone and socket injuries have healed, but I don’t think anyone could say when the ligament was torn. Like I said: the truth will out. But right now it’s looking like this Rich Fucking Banker May Not Have Been Too Cheap to Hire a Hooker after all. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/369 "2011-07-03T08:33:02Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > What does that mean, except that it’s open season on this woman? \ Well, previously it’s been open season on DSK. Turnabout is fair play, right? \ However, just as with DSK, I presume her innocence until she’s proven guilty. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/370 "2011-07-03T08:44:30Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Well, if you’re going to dodge the question, it’s good that you at least do so completely transparently. In case you;re really just too dumb to understand, I’ll explain. Anonymous sources are not always unreliable. However, when an anonymous source working for the defense spreads innuendo about the accuser, it is unreliable. So much so that only the Post would publish it. There is no specific allegation being made. The individual who is spreading the innuendo can hide behind anonymity and so say anything he wants, and has a vested interest in smearing the accuser. There is no mention of why, when she was taken to the hospital after making the initial report, she had a torn ligament in her shoulder. Assuming DSK is telling the truth, he administered an NFL-level injury on a total stranger in the course of an anonymous hookup. The only problem with that is that it’s the prosecution that’s turned up most of the damaging stuff about this woman, facts which they had no choice but to disclose to the defense attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/371 "2011-07-03T12:49:06Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The only problem with that is that it’s the prosecution that’s turned up most of the damaging stuff about this woman, facts which they had no choice but to disclose to the defense attorneys. That has nothing to do with what the defense has been saying, under cover of anonymity, about her. Which has zero credibility, even if they do report it in The New York Post. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/372 "2011-07-03T12:52:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > \ > Well, previously it’s been open season on DSK. Turnabout is fair play, right? > \ > > However, just as with DSK, I presume her innocence until she’s proven guilty. I wasn’t aware a jury had been empanelled. But I have to point out, if you’re on the jury, you really shouldn’t be participating in these threads. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/373 "2011-07-03T16:41:59Z")
I wonder if **saoirse** will find [this information](http://www.cnbc.com/id/43617284) from CNBC more compelling: > [@](#): > > Twenty-eight hours after a housekeeper at the Sofitel New York said she was sexually assaulted by Dominique Strauss-Kahn, she spoke by phone to a boyfriend in an immigration jail in Arizona. > > Investigators with the Manhattan district attorney’s office learned the call had been recorded and had it translated from a “unique dialect of Fulani,” a language from the woman’s native country, Guinea, according to a well-placed law enforcement official. > > When the conversation was translated — a job completed only this Wednesday — investigators were alarmed: “She says words to the effect of, ‘ **Don’t worry, this guy has a lot of money. I know what I’m doing** ,’ ” the official said. > [@](#): > > Little by little, her credibility as a witness crumbled — she had lied about her immigration, about being gang raped in Guinea, about her experiences in her homeland and about her finances, according to two law enforcement officials. > [@](#): > > She had been linked to people suspected of crimes. She changed her account of what she did immediately after the encounter with Mr. Strauss-Kahn. Sit-downs with prosecutors became tense, even angry. Initially composed, she later collapsed in tears and got down on the floor during questioning. She became unavailable to investigators from the district attorney’s office for days at a time. > [@](#): > > Now the phone call raised yet another problem: **it seemed as if she hoped to profit from whatever occurred in Suite 2806** > [@](#): > > Then, for some 10 days, prosecutors were unable to get Mr. Thompson to bring her in; the lawyer said she was being treated for **a shoulder injury that she suffered in the attack, an injury she had not reported earlier**. > [@](#): > > It was devastating. In recent weeks, investigators collected bank records showing deposits of thousands of dollars in Arizona, Georgia, New York and Pennsylvania to an account in her name. > > The woman had repeatedly said that the Sofitel was her only source of income. > > Now, investigators confronted her with the bank records. > > The woman, silent, turned to Mr. Thompson, seemingly pleading for direction on how to respond. He seemed startled. > > “He was speechless,” the well-placed official said. > [@](#): > > The district attorney’s office said the woman had lied about her income to maintain her public housing, and had claimed a friend’s child as her own dependant to increase her tax refund. [all bolding mine] The article goes on to state that she changed her story of what happened immediately after the so-called attack. Instead of hunkering down in another room until he left whereupon she notified her supervisor of the attack, she instead cleaned another room and then his room. To me, this calls into question the circumstances behind the semen found in his room, which is said to have been found on the bed and the wall in his suite. Perhaps, in her role as hotel hooker, she collected semen from a previous encounter and then put it on the bed and wall herself after he left so as to implicate him in the rape. I would also point out that I haven’t had a word to say in Strauss-Kahn’s defense nor posted suspicions about the maid prior to the prosecution’s dropping the bail requirement on Strauss-Kahn and releasing the details of their investigation. Perhaps **saoirse** will keep in mind that the only evidence of rape that exists is this woman’s word, and if her word is shown to be worthless and/or prone to lies for monetary gain, as it has, then evidence of the rape becomes worthless as well. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/374 "2011-07-03T16:51:34Z")
Bad witnesses and dishonest people can also be raped. The evidence of rape consists of the DNA evidence, injuries to the woman, and the absurdity of the defendant’s story. The room service waiter confirmed that he had told the maid that the room was empty when she went in. Supposedly Mr Strauss-Kahn is so damn sexy that women who don’t know him suddenly want to have rough sex with him for 20 minutes before he checks out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/375 "2011-07-03T17:17:27Z")
Something just occured to me. How does a guy rape a woman in a hotel? I mean if I was a rapist, I’m sure I’d be scared as hell that she’s going to scream and alert the entire hotel. Force a woman to give you a blow job? Just how the hell would you manage that without a weapon to imply imminent harm. A blow job takes considerable effort to perform on the part of the “victim” , much more effort than to disengage and make a run for it unlike sexual intercourse where all the effort is by the rapist, who can control the victim simply by his body weight. Yes, we have the Kobe and Tyson rapes in hotel rooms, but these occured in escalating situations with naive young women where they were too confused to respond effectively given some degree of social interaction was pursued on their part initially, but in this unique case we have a mature female employee who knows not to close the door behind her when she enters a room to clean is for a reason, and no pretense for consent could ever be reasonably assumed on either of the parties. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/376 "2011-07-03T17:20:42Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Supposedly Mr Strauss-Kahn is so damn sexy that women who don’t know him suddenly want to have rough sex with him for 20 minutes before he checks out. Only women who see dollar signs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/377 "2011-07-03T17:43:11Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Something just occured to me. How does a guy rape a woman in a hotel? I mean if I was a rapist, I’m sure I’d be scared as hell that she’s going to scream and alert the entire hotel. Strauss-Kahn was in a large suite, and it was the middle of the day. Probably nobody would have heard her even if the neighboring rooms had been occupied, and more probably they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/378 "2011-07-03T17:53:23Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Bad witnesses and dishonest people can also be raped. The evidence of rape consists of the DNA evidence, injuries to the woman, and the absurdity of the defendant’s story. The room service waiter confirmed that he had told the maid that the room was empty when she went in. Supposedly Mr Strauss-Kahn is so damn sexy that women who don’t know him suddenly want to have rough sex with him for 20 minutes before he checks out. “Bad witness?” You make it sound like she’s unsure of his description or couldn’t pick him out of a lineup. She’s a scheming, lying, duplicitous, money-grubbing prostitute with a history of rehearsing dishonest claims so as to benefit financially. The DNA evidence could very well have been placed there after the fact, as they may have had sex earlier that day or even the day before. Hell, for that matter, he could have masturbated and left the evidence, which she found upon cleaning his room and which would have given her the evidence she needed to opportunisticially try to bilk this guy for money. The shoulder injury, as you would have learned had you read my last post, was never mentioned in the aftermath of the assault and was brought up only in an effort to try to avoid more questioning by the prosecution. The room may very well have been emptry when she entered it - after all, the only evidence we have that it wasn’t is her word. Again, when you have a situation where the only evidence of a crime is the word of the victim, the integrity of the victim’s word is all-important. This woman’s word is not worth the air used to speak it. Frankly, it’s beginning to look like you feel that a woman’s word should always be accepted in the case of rape allegations, no matter what…that inconsistencies should be ignored and that any woman’s versions of events should always take precedence no matter what the evidence shows or how other explanations may account for that evidence. If that’s the case, just come right out and say so and then we can dispense with arguments based upon the facts, because in that arena you’re fighting a losing battle. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/379 "2011-07-04T00:19:55Z")
Before I proceed with Mr. Chitwood’s remarks , let me ask him to recall that in my earlier post I advocated a start from scratch on the study of false rape allegation. Professor [Kanin](http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/maysession/KaninFalseRapeAllegations.pdf) says the same thing: (p10) > [@](#): > > Since this effort is the first at a systematic, long-term, on-site investigation of false rape allegations from a single city, future studies in other cities, with comparable policies, must assess the representativeness of these findings. Only bias can explain the following range of difference in other studies cited by [Kanin](http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/maysession/KaninFalseRapeAllegations.pdf), although it is not yet possible to say who is biased and who is not: (p4) > [@](#): > > Widely divergent viewpoints are held regarding the incidence of false > rape reporting (Katz and Mazur, 1979). For example, reports set the figure > from lows of 0.25% (O’Reilly, 1984) and 1% (Krasner et al, 1976) to highs > of 80-90% (Bronson, 1918; Comment, 1968) and even 100% (see Kanin, > 1985). All of these figures represent releases from some criminal justice > agency or are estimates from clinical practitioners. The extraordinary range > of these estimates makes a researcher suspect that inordinate biases are at > work. (p9) > [@](#): > > …(an) obstacle to obtaining “true” incidence figures, especially for larger > cities, would be the extraordinary variations in police agency policies (see > Comment, 1968; Newsweek, 1983; Pepinsky and Jesilow, 1984); variations > so diverse, in fact, that some police agencies cannot find a single rape complaint > with merit, while others cannot find a single rape complaint without > merit. Similarly, some police agencies report all of their unfounded rape > cases to be due to false allegation, while other agencies report none of > their unfounded declarations to be based on false allegation (Kanin, 1985). > Some of these policies are really nothing more than statistical and procedural Kanin’s data was obtained from the years 1979-88 study was published in 1994. Has there ever been a rigorous follow-up? Mr. Chitwood’s Ms Rafael displays considerable inconsistency on the matter. She first implies that FBI-UK-Portland-San Diego data (which Chitwood saw fit to reproduce) is conclusive. Then she yanks the rug out from under herself with this little snip (which Chitwood did not see fit to reproduce): (p10) > [@](#): > > Professor Lisak (2007) reminds us that not a single “benchmark” study on false rape claims can be found in the social science literature. Since a “benchmark” is an evaluation standard Ms Rafael concedes there is no standard for evaluating anyone’s false rape claim data after all! > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > I’ll do it myself. Kanin’s study consists of enumerating what he was told by an anonymous police force Three anonymous police forces: one from a city and two from large universities. The university investigations combined actually reported a higher occurrence of false rape accusation (50%: 32 false of 64 total) I would prefer all to have been named. The universities might have been leery of revealing the names even of confessed wrongdoers due to privacy and litigation concerns. Perhaps the city similarly did not follow through on every threat to prosecute false accusers, and would have been vulnerable to lawsuits if any of were identified through an academic study. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > The rape victims You display your own bias by assuming the subjects are victims. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > themselves were not involved in the study; Kanin never spoke to them. Obviously privacy and other law would make it impossible for an academic researcher to participate in person in any police rape investigation. Also, few to none of the subjects might agree to incriminate themselves further to an academic researcher. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > The findings can obviously not be independently researched or investigated, because nobody else knows who he was talking to. Addressed by Kanin himself above. My guess is that that the fervently pro-feminist academic environment of the last several decades has had more than anything to do with the lack of follow-up. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > So already there’s two possible points of concern - 1. for all we know Kanin could have simply counted wrong, or made some other mistake, since we can’t verify anything he says he was told; The mathematics involved is literally grade school level arithmetic, barely reaching the three digit numbers. Therefore I think it is reasonable to assume that the possibility of error is too small to be considered. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > and 2. we have no reason to believe that this particular police force’s determination of a false allegation is infallible, “Infallible”? don’t be absurd- no number of studies is ever going to establish that a research correspondent is “infallible”. I think you must mean “reliable”, and here we tread onto contentious ground, given the wildly varying police report data from various jurisdictions, and anti-police sentiment, especially by the formidable feminist lobby. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > and we can’t verify what they reportedly said, even if they said it. Anyone questioning the data and results is welcome to do another study- there are plenty of cities of all sizes in the USA, and plenty of colleges and universities too. Why the delay? Could it be academics who might otherwise be drawn to such research have a mortal fear of the wrath of the kind of people who reared their ugly heads in the recent Duke University case if the results are not just so? Is there any doubt such people now dominate the culture of higher learning? > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > On that second point, in fact, note that the police department “offered” a polygraph as part of every investigation: > > Quote: > And indeed, the Kanin study has been criticized for the department’s use of polygraph testing in every case, a process that has been rejected by many police departments because of its intimidating impact on victims. The International Association of Chiefs of Police disapproves of requiring polygraph tests during rape investigations because “victims often feel confused and ashamed, and experience a great deal of self-blame because of something they did or did not do in relation to the sexual assault. These feelings may compromise the reliability of the results of such interrogation techniques. > > Page 4. > > That link also says that polygraph policy is > > Quote: > now deemed unlawful by the U.S. Congress for police departments receiving federal funds There is no mention of polygraph use by two university police departments. Furthermore they assigned female officers as lead investigators, yet the rate of false accusation uncovered by them was even higher than by the city. I am aware of the fact that polygraph is only about 85% reliable, and is not admissible as evidence. However, I am not willing to dismiss its usefulness as an investigative tool, and I see no reason to assume that polygraph use induces more false retraction than genuine retraction, regardless of the solicitousness of the international Police Chiefs and the US Congress toward the putative victims. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Now, contrast the above, a single study performed behind a curtain, with the however many dozen sets of statistics released by entities like the FBI, the British government, the police departments of various municipalities in the United States who are not anonymous, and a bunch of other independent researchers like Kanin, which as you (sort of) noted generally end up providing a number way down in the single digits. > > That Kanin’s 41% is just as likely the “true” number as all the much lower numbers from other studies is a conclusion you could draw, if you wanted. I think it’s fair to wonder whether anybody who says this study ought to wipe out all other data that’s ever been collected Has anyone gone through all those numbers in order to establish their accuracy with scientific rigor? Not as of 2007, according to your own Ms Rafael and her Professor Lisak! Until such a study is conducted I will not trust any earlier work completely, even if it does have “FBI” stamped all over it. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > so that we now should assume that every accusation is just as likely false as true (even though not even this god-damned study supports that) Taken in isolation yes it does support a 50-50 assumption because it is reasonable to assume that not all false accusations are admitted, and the 41% cited by the study included only the admitted. Then there are those university numbers of exactly 50-50. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > wasn’t predisposed to coming to that conclusion no matter how compelling the evidence was. Until we get a definitive, comprehensive, rigorously scientific examination of the issue, 50-50 seems to me an ideal compromise between the ultra feminist ~1% and the misogynist ~99% false accusation estimates. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > If you want to read an actual expert talking about it, you can read this. > Kanin does not stand on his own work, and I should not need to keep repeating that. > > Quote: > Kanin describes no effort to systemize his own ‘evaluation’of the police reports—for example, by listing details or facts that he used to evaluate the criteria used by the police to draw their conclusions. This is not expert commentary, it is clichéd jargon. Kamin does not need to “systematize” any more than did: the police say a complainant admitted her accusations were false , and that is that. What do you think Kamin should have done?- gone back and interviewed each one himself? If so, then you better get hopping on someone to reinterview a few tens of thousand people from those much larger FBI-UK-Portland -San Diego reports you and Ms Rafael think are so decisive. > [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Nor does Kanin describe any effort to compare his evaluation of those reports to that of a second, independent research— providing a ‘reliability’ analysis. This violates a cardinal rule of science, a rule designed to ensure that observations are not simply the reflection of the bias of the observer Addressed. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956/380 "2011-07-04T01:04:52Z")
Mr. Chitwood is much obliged, I’m sure. Let Mr. Chitwood remind you that you asked for details about why that study was criticized. It doesn’t get much simpler than “nobody fucking knows where the data came from, or whether he made it all up,” but I gave you a couple of examples anyway. I’m not trying to change your mind. If I had a dollar for every motherfucker on this message board who wanted to set himself up like an impartial, totally unbiased naif just stumbling upon the idea of false rape allegations for the first time, who just _felt_ it was his _duty_ to ask certain questions that might be a little _uncomfortable_, but all in the name of good rigorous science, don’t you know, who then spent the rest of the thread acting like every other dickhead who’s just determined to conclude that “Well holy fuck, rape actually isn’t that much of a problem!” (or, say, that it must be that it’s a total coinflip whether any given rape allegation was maliciously fabricated), well, I’d have like 20 dollars, but still. That’s a lot of motherfuckers to go trying to argue with all the time. Mr. colonial was having trouble googling or imagining criticisms of the study that is _blowing his mind_. I’m glad to be of service. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-this-rich-fuckin-banker-dominique-strauss-kahn-is-too-cheap-to-hire-a-hooker/581956.md?page=20)