I Guess this Rich Fuckin' Banker [Dominique Strauss-Kahn] is Too Cheap to Hire a Hooker

[silenus]

@Mops

Regarding handcuffing, that’s a particularly sore point in public perception (in Germany, and I suspect also in France) - I remember periodic outraged press reports of people not just being refused entry into the US (the US’s right to to), and being detained pending a plane for leaving being available (neccessary absent provisions for sterile transit), but, in the process, being handcuffed, like violent criminals.

We handcuff everybody, and set procedure is behind the back. This is for the protection of the officers and screw what people think. A suspect is much too capable of things when handcuffed in front. As for this guy, he is an accused violent criminal.

[Baal_Houtham]

@silenus

We handcuff everybody, and set procedure is behind the back. This is for the protection of the officers and screw what people think. A suspect is much too capable of things when handcuffed in front. As for this guy, he is an accused violent criminal.

Yeah, I (U.S. citizen) have nothing against U.S. policy in that regard. A policy of treating certain suspected rapists as safe and respectable, could easily be applied in discriminatory fashion.

Get them in custody, keep the cops safe, and then decide who isn’t a menace.

[Elysian]

@Gyrate

I’m neither assuming that he did this or didn’t do it until I hear more (current reported evidence suggests he’s guilty but it’s early days), but “he’s rich and powerful and those people think they can get away with anything therefore he must have done it” is not a compelling argument.

That wasn’t my argument.

My argument is that, if the stories are true, he has gotten away with it before. This is a different situation than if he was just “rich and powerful”. He was rich and powerful AND he has gotten away with it before. This makes him think he can get away with it again.

I agree with you that just because he’s rich and powerful isn’t a compelling argument. The other occurrences make it a compelling argument.

[Acsenray]

@Mops

• discretion to be used in deciding whether to arrest me or (weighing flight risk etc.) just to take my ID for later prosecution. (this obviously does not apply to the DSK case)
• if arrested, discretion to be used in deciding whether to handcuff me in transit (from press photographs it looks like DSK was even handcuffed behind the back at times, which looks particularly humiliating)
• police, prosecutors and courts not publicly identifying me by full name prior to trial (cannot fully expect that if I am a public figure), let alone making my booking photograph publicly available
• the judicial hearing on whether to authorize to keep me on remand, and futher pretrial hearings, to be in camera
• the press not identifying me by full name in trial reports (cannot expect that if I am am a public figure)

Nearly every act by a law enforcement official is a matter of public record. They can’t withhold names of people they have taken into custody or charged or who are facing trial. To make an exception would amount to special treatment.

Procedures before a judge, such as arraignment, are by law also open to the public, although most courts make the independent decision to ban electronic recording devices.

So, from an American point of view, while the situation might amount to a spectacle because of the identity of the accused, it is all routine procedure.

[Dangerosa]

@Acsenray

Nearly every act by a law enforcement official is a matter of public record. They can’t withhold names of people they have taken into custody or charged or who are facing trial. To make an exception would amount to special treatment.

Procedures before a judge, such as arraignment, are by law also open to the public, although most courts make the independent decision to ban electronic recording devices.

So, from an American point of view, while the situation might amount to a spectacle because of the identity of the accused, it is all routine procedure.

The first is also a potential human rights violation. Getting arrested, and then having the officials NOT release your name or be unwilling to confirm you are in custody is a problem.

How much of a bigger problem would it be internationally had the U.S. taken this guy into custody secretly, not confirmed his arrest, or confirmed what he was taken into custody for.

[Voyager]

@Dangerosa

I did a little more research. The IMF has waived any immunity he might have had and says he didn’t have it to start with, the U.S. Government says he never had it - both say that diplomatic immunity in cases like this only extend to actions undertaken in your official role. Apparently, the official role does not extend to what you do in your hotel room suite with the maid.

He didn’t have diplomatic immunity in this case because the trip was a personal one, and he was not in New York for the IMF. However, diplomatic immunity extends beyond things done in ones official capacity. That should be obvious, for a country wishing to harass a diplomat could invent all sorts of private crimes as pretexts to arrest him. My father worked for the UN, and UN diplomats did all sorts of nasty things (well beyond parking in No-Parking zones) for which they were covered. The only recourse the host country has is to expel the diplomat.

[Themenin]

So do you think NYPD knew this when they decided to detain him ?

Either they decided to voluntarily overlook protocol, or the IMF for some reason pre-emptively chose to waive his immunity. Or It could be that they simply didn’t know who he was.

The fact remains that the initial arrest raises some doubt, and nothing much has been done to dispel that so far.

[Mops]

@Dangerosa

The first is also a potential human rights violation. Getting arrested, and then having the officials NOT release your name or be unwilling to confirm you are in custody is a problem.

How much of a bigger problem would it be internationally had the U.S. taken this guy into custody secretly, not confirmed his arrest, or confirmed what he was taken into custody for.

Different approaches to the balance of public interest vs. personal privacy, I guess.

If I were arrested and thought public scrutiny would help my case I could always choose to go public with my full identity, by instructing my lawyer to make a statement to the press. I cannot recall a case of a suspect taking that option, though. If I were suspected of mugging someone I’d much rather have it reported that ‘a 48 year old X-town man was preliminarily arrested on suspicion of robbing and assaulting a 50-year-old man from Y-city, in the early morning hours of Sunday, in Z-street.’

[Boyo_Jim]

@Dangerosa

I did a little more research. The IMF has waived any immunity he might have had and says he didn’t have it to start with, the U.S. Government says he never had it - both say that diplomatic immunity in cases like this only extend to actions undertaken in your official role. Apparently, the official role does not extend to what you do in your hotel room suite with the maid.

The NYPD is going to have egg on its face if it turns out this guy is the Official Rapist of the IMF.

[Simplicio]

Khan himself said he didn’t have diplomatic immunity. So I don’t think there’s really any reason to be suspicious of the cops going ahead and arresting him.

But even if he had claimed immunity, I don’t think that means the cops can’t detain him at all. Presumably SOP is that the cops still hold him why they find out if he’s really in the US as a diplomat. Otherwise everyone with a foreign passport would just claim immunity and the take off while the cops tried to call the State Dept and verify their claim.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@elucidator

Its illegal for a banker to fuck you in the ass? Since when?

I thought it was part of the IMF charter to screw Africans in the ass.

[Acsenray]

@Themenin

So do you think NYPD knew this when they decided to detain him ?

Either they decided to voluntarily overlook protocol, or the IMF for some reason pre-emptively chose to waive his immunity. Or It could be that they simply didn’t know who he was.

The fact remains that the initial arrest raises some doubt, and nothing much has been done to dispel that so far.

What kind of doubt? What would dispel such doubt?

[Rand_Rover]

@Themenin

out of control, violent, opportunistic, stranger rape

I’ve got all their albums.

[Boyo_Jim]

@Mops

…
If I were arrested and thought public scrutiny would help my case I could always choose to go public with my full identity, by instructing my lawyer to make a statement to the press…

There were a bunch of such cases of secret arrests and renditions in the “War on Terror”. People just disappeared. I’m sure they would have ordered their lawyers to make statements to draw public attention to their plight, but they didn’t get lawyers either.

[muldoonthief]

@Themenin

So do you think NYPD knew this when they decided to detain him ?

Either they decided to voluntarily overlook protocol, or the IMF for some reason pre-emptively chose to waive his immunity. Or It could be that they simply didn’t know who he was.

The fact remains that the initial arrest raises some doubt, and nothing much has been done to dispel that so far.

I don’t think they knew anything about his possible diplimatic immunity status when they arrested him. Why would they? They get a complaint of a rape, find the guy has checked out of his hotel, track him to the airport, where they arrest him. Why would they check anyone’s d.i. status before the arrest?

According to the SD Staff Report on Diplomatic Immunity:

In the United States, the State Department maintains a twenty-four-hour hotline for use by local law enforcement to verify the current status of any arrestee who claims diplomatic immunity. Once his identity as a diplomat is established, he must be released. The most the host country can do is expel him, declaring him persona non grata, or a person no longer welcome. If he remains in the country after being “PNG’d,” his diplomatic status may be revoked and he may be arrested like a mere mortal.

So it sounds like the procedure is make an arrest, and if the person claims Diplomatic Immunity, check with the State Dept. & release the person if they actually have it. Not pre-clear any and all arrests ahead of time.

[Themenin]

I assume he has a diplomatic passport, and that NYPD have computers… Still, I realize that they may have simply been unaware…

[Happy_Fun_Ball]

@Themenin

I assume he has a diplomatic passport, and that NYPD have computers… Still, I realize that they may have simply been unaware…

It’s not that simple. Even if he had a diplomatic passport, it probably wouldn’t matter. From up thread:

@Dangerosa

I did a little more research. The IMF has waived any immunity he might have had and says he didn’t have it to start with, the U.S. Government says he never had it - both say that diplomatic immunity in cases like this only extend to actions undertaken in your official role. Apparently, the official role does not extend to what you do in your hotel room suite with the maid.

As I understand it, diplomatic immunity is granted by the country hosting the diplomat when they enter the country in relation to the purpose of their visit. If he entered the country (with whatever passport) to perform diplomatic business, he would have had to state this and would have received a diplomatic visa (which conveys the immunity). If he didn’t do this, he doesn’t have the immunity regardless of who he is.

[Acsenray]

My understanding of how local police operate leads me to believe that they will (1) take someone into custody, (2) entertain any claims of immunity, (3) examine immunity documents, (4) wait for confirmation from the relevant sovereign as to whether they will support the detainee’s claim of immunity, and (5) leave it up to the local prosecutor/state’s attorney to decide how to proceed.

It would be very, very unlikely that when faced with an accusation by an alleged rape victim that they would show up, take a look at the suspect’s passport and just let him go at that, especially if they caught him about to board a flight out of the country.

[Muffin]

@xtisme

I was listening to a news report yesterday and they mentioned that someone else has come forth with a similar story (something about her mother told her to keep it quiet as it would adversely affect her daughters career…which probably deserves a pitting right there, if true)?? Has anyone heard any details on this? I only heard it in passing.

-XT

Read upthread for particulars.

Tristane Banon and her mother Anne Mansouret:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13802514&postcount=47
and
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13805646&postcount=93

Also an allegation of DSK doing the same sort of thing on a previous occasion at the hotel: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13806727&postcount=100

[suranyi]

@Simplicio

Did he leave “many personal effects?” The original report just mentioned a cellphone, which I imagine plenty of non-rapists have left in their hotel rooms.

And I’ve heard different things about the plane ticket. Was it reserved ahead of time or did he buy it after the incident? If the former, it hardly seems like an “attempt to flee” and more like an attempt to catch his pre-planned flight.

Apparently, he has an arrangement with Air France such that he never needs to buy a ticket. He can just show up and they put him on any flight he wants to travel on.