Um, you go on about the decline in civility and you make a habit out of quoting The New York Post??!? Sheesh.
The article was from the CNBC website, but it was written for The New York Times. The allegations are different. Observe and learn: The New York Times certainly had access to the smears alleged about the witness by the defense, but they didn’t print them. What they printed could be verified (and was pretty bad actually). To be clear though, there were no allegations of prostitution in the NYT’s piece.
So speaking for myself, yes I do find the NYT information more compelling. Ultimately, I withhold judgment until the legal process is complete, but presume innocence. But that’s boilerplate.
As far as I know, she’s no more a prostitute than you are. In fact. I could say you give blowjobs for money, and the statement would have exactly as much validity. More, in fact, since I really have no particular interest in smearing you.
What is not in dispute is that they had sex at the time that the woman said they did. DSK has admitted this. And we know that the woman entered the suite believing it to be empty. So it’s 20 minutes between, “I’m sorry, I didn’t know anyone was here,” and “Do me like Mac McClelland,” according to a serial sex offender. Or she was raped. Which do you think is more likely?
Incorrect. The NYP quotes prosecution (note – prosecution, not defense) sources having her turning tricks even <after> the incident, in government-provided lodgings.
Did the NYP make up that DA leak? I suppose it’s possible. Occam thinks otherwise. She’s a ho.
Can a ho be raped? Technically, sure. But enhanced penalties for rape vs. other physical assault hardly seem apropos when the mystique of the sanctity of sexuality, vs. other physical interactions, has been belied by the “victim” herself treating sexuality like a handshake.
False rape allegations are what they are – dumb chicks’ no-brainer kryptonite. Cf. Crystal Mangum.
The more interesting/infuriating part of this to me is the light it sheds on asylum fraud – anytime an asylee is victimized (or “victimized”), it’s amazing how it turns out they told some rote lie about their bad treatment back home (Amadou Diallo, anyone?) in their application to the credulous INS, as did this woman, again using fake rape/sexual oppression as the trump card.
You could ask this about quite a few situations in which rape has occurred. For one, I think the lack of a weapon is confusing for men especially – you have to approach it from the viewpoint of people, many women, who go out into the world knowing that they could be overtaken quite easily by a man their size or larger (or, sometimes, smaller – muscle counts for a lot). On the subway, on a date, late at the office, on the street. It’s not paranoia, it’s not even foremost in many women’s minds, but it’s usually somewhere back there, the reality that a physical fight will not be in their favor (in fact, we constantly ask women to be on their guard when alone or in the presence of men).
Secondly, as I believe has been noted in this thread and many comment forums about the case, ‘control’ in a case like this needn’t, again, be purely physical. Not to drag ‘power’ back into this, so many pages later, but that is precisely what a hotel guest in an expensive suite has over the maids. They have to put up with a lot of shit, and it wouldn’t surprise me if sexual assault is often seen as the cost of doing business, especially in the fancier places (and that goes triple if there are immigration issues).
I’ve never had an SDMB warning before, so I’m going to go ahead and take this opportunity to tell you to go fuck yourself.
(But thanks for reminding some of the wishy washy types who think raping a prostitute is a somewhat lesser offense exactly who they’re aligning themselves with.)
I’ll bother to answer this, whilst echoing Cat Fight’s sentiment that you’re a fucking arsehole for even suggesting this.
Rape has nothing to do with “sanctity”, and everything to do with assault. What someone chooses to do with their body, even if that choice is to sell the use of it, is irrelevant to any situation where they don’t have that choice. It may make it harder to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a rape has occurred, but that’s an entirely different issue
I’ll add that a good amount of sex with prostitutes isn’t genuinely consensual anyway, there’s an ongoing thread about sex trafficking in this forum that should make that clear.
I’d suggest you read that story again, paying attention to what the prosecution sources actually said (““I can’t say with 100 percent certainty that it’s not true,” a senior prosecutor said about whether the woman was turning tricks while at the hotel.”) and what the Post is saying without attribution.
I did not say anyone on this board said such a thing. I simply point out that a woman who lied on her immigration paperwork, who seems to have been a prostitute may be raped with no fear of penalty if you are able to hire a good lawyer.
Since this breaks down to a he said, she said case, her background would question her credibility. That is why the case is falling apart. In court, she would get creamed by the defense lawyers. It would be very difficult to win. So why would they commit tax money to following up a likely losing case?
Which, as previously remarked, makes it a good idea to not lie on immigration paperwork or be a prostitute. You know, just in case there weren’t any other good reasons not to.
It’s probably also worth noting that any person may get away with anything if they have a good enough lawyer.
Still, I doubt that very many wealthy men run around raping prostitutes, secure in the knowledge that their ability to hire good lawyers will protect them from the consequences.
I disagree, on both counts.
First, Huerta88 was simply stating a fact. Rape is about the worst type of violation of the sanctity of a woman’s body that is possible. This sanctity is created by the fact that rape involves violating the most private and intimate parts of a woman’s physical and mental being. If a woman’s body is sacrosanct, as is often argued in the case of abortion, then it is certainly sacrosanct in the event of rape.
This fact is illustrated also in comparison to the legal penalties for rape vs. assault. A person can rob someone, pistol whip them into an inch of their life (with the multiple fractures, scarring and disfigurement that such an attack can produce) and he will likely receive a much lighter sentence than will a rapist who has caused his victim no particular physical harm. So there really is no comparison between rape and even the most violent of assaults.
Now, to get back to Huerta88’s claim about prostitutes, I think it is reasonable and logical to think that to rape a prostitute - who is after all giving up the sanctity of her body, her privacy, and access to intimate parts of her body numerous times a day simply for money - would not be as traumatized by rape as would your average school girl or soccer mom by virtue of their having become desensitized to the effects of strangers having access to the most private and intimate parts of her body for sexual purposes.
This is not to say that prostitutes can’t be raped, nor that it should be blown off if they are - after all, people aren’t allowed to slug professional boxers outside the ring or tackle a football player off the field - but it’s highly unlikely that a prostitute will feel the same sense of violation from rape, nor be as traumatized by it, as would would the aforementioned school girl or soccer mom.
Can I just add one more to the list of questions that you won’t respond to? How in the sweet goddamn do you have any basis upon which to say it’s “highly unlikely?” Do you, for instance, know any-fucking-thing about it? Anything at all? Or is psychoanalysis of prostitutes more of a hobby?
School girls and soccer moms have sex too, you know. I don’t know if that means they “give up the sanctity of their bodies” in your terms, because that’s a couple blocks too far into the Fucking Claptrap Nonsense Village for me to be able to pull off the argot, but those women don’t like have a mountain pass between their vaginas and the outside world, full of trolls on bridges and patrolled by knights in shining armor, which rapists have to burn down before they arrive in the holy of holies. That ain’t why it’s bad to rape them.
They will be exactly as traumatised due to the assault, and the lack of choice in the matter. That someone has, in the past, chosen to have sex, doesn’t lessen rape in any way. It may, in some circumstances, lessen the chance of a conviction, but that’s a separate issue.
Prostitites are, despite what you may think, people too.
Meanwhile, a new charge of attempted rape is being leveled at DSK in Paris by a different woman. The alleged incident was in 2002. I’m wondering how difficult it’s going to be to prove something like this nine years on.
What I wanna know is which rich Socialist bankers will be attending the big Bohemian Grove get-together in California later this month, conducting a ceremonial sacrifice of children and parading around in black and red* robes before the 40-foot stone owl Moloch.
Rest assured that a protest will be conducted the weekend of July 16-17 to call attention to this Illuminati travesty.
“Participants are gathering in Monte Rio, California near the Russian River off Hwy 116, to voice their outrage at these people who will be arriving to set public policy through the United Nations Agenda 21, and through our local government using ICLEI to literally take over our lives and control our families. To decrease the population they want to install toxic smart murder meters, mandate vaccines, spray us with aerial toxins, mandate toxic mercury light bulbs and create perpetual wars leading towards a World Government and Hitlerian New World Order.
We need your outrage to be heard. Please we ask that you join us. We will have posters, signs and banners and welcome yours. We will have free DVD’s concerning the horrors committed at the Grove and the film FrankenFed the Monster Amongst Us!
Bring your picnic lunch or dinner and your Family!”
I like the idea of the picnic lunch, but do you really want to bring the whole family to a place where children are being ritually sacrificed? :eek::(:smack:
oddly enough, these are the colors of the college I attended. :eek:
:eek::(