# I guess we're gonna die **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 27, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524 "2020-05-27T03:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/41 "2020-05-27T22:10:26Z")
The relationship of polio to sanitation practices is interesting and takes a bit of an unexpected turn. The important point is underlined at the end of this brief history. (Bold in the original.) **[While many infectious diseases began to decline by the end of the 1800s, incidents of polio increased to epidemic proportions. What was going on?](https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/medicine/polio-20th-century-epidemic)** > [@](#): > > Poliomyelitis (polio) is an infectious disease that can cause spinal and respiratory paralysis. Children are particularly vulnerable to the disease, which used to be called infantile paralysis. There is no cure and if the infection affects the lung muscles or brain it can be fatal. > > Polio has been around for a long time, but it was never considered a major problem until the end of the 1800s, when something unusual began to happen. > > **Polio epidemics on the rise** > > Like many other infectious diseases, polio spreads from person-to-person through the ingestion of faecal matter, often in food and water. But while improvements in sanitation such as clean water and sewage systems led to the decline of diseases such as typhoid and cholera at the end of the 1800s, outbreaks of polio began to increase. > > The size and number of epidemics continued to increase in Europe and America throughout the first half of the 1900s. > > A polio epidemic appeared each summer in at least one part of the country, and major outbreaks became more frequent reaching their peak in 1952 in the USA, with 57,628 cases. Each summer was spent in fear of the disease. And there were similar situations across the rest of North America and Europe. > > **What caused the epidemics?** > > For centuries, protection from polio was passed down through the generations. Mothers who had survived polio infection themselves passed on immunity to their babies in the womb and through breast milk. > > There are two stages to the polio infection. In the first mild stage the infection stays in the digestive system and throat and doesn’t reach the central nervous system. Most babies with maternal immunity are able to fight off the disease at this stage with only mild flu-like symptoms. At the same time, exposure to the first stage gives them their own long-term immunity. > > But the unforeseen consequence of better hygiene and sanitation at the end of the 1800s was that babies in clean surroundings stopped encountering the infection while they still had maternal immunity. > > So they failed to develop their own long-term immunity and were not protected when they encountered the disease later in life. And exposure to polio in late childhood or as an adult, was more likely to develop to the second, more aggressive stage of the disease. > … So the improved sanitation wound up biting the tushies of the CHILDREN of the first generation to experience improved sanitation. I saw a TV show on this years ago and it blew my mind… ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/42 "2020-05-27T22:38:02Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The relationship of polio to sanitation practices is interesting and takes a bit of an unexpected turn. The important point is underlined at the end of this brief history. (Bold in the original.) > > **[While many infectious diseases began to decline by the end of the 1800s, incidents of polio increased to epidemic proportions. What was going on?](https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/medicine/polio-20th-century-epidemic)** > So the improved sanitation wound up biting the tushies of the CHILDREN of the first generation to experience improved sanitation. I saw a TV show on this years ago and it blew my mind… I can’t say if I subscribe to this theory or not. But a factor that probably contributed to this phenomenon is that mothers of Baby Boomers were sold a line that bottle feeding was actually healthier than breast feeding! Early Boomer bottle babies were given a concoction of Carnation evaporated milk mixed with Karo syrup. Later Boomer babies were fed “formula,” called Similac. This cannot be a coincidence. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/43 "2020-05-28T02:28:25Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > OK, I was wooshed, humble apologies to \*\* Leaper\*\* S’alright. But seriously, I understand people do actually think that. I assume they think the motive is anti-Trump or anti-freedom, I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/44 "2020-05-28T03:07:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > People are rationalizing animals, not rational ones. My philosophy teacher used to say that, way back in the 80s! And I’ve been repeating it a lot lately. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/45 "2020-05-28T06:00:46Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The poliovirus is spread via the fecal-oral route, so in theory better sanitation should reduce transmission. However, in the 'Fifties, handwashing was not as prevalent as it was now even in hospitals and food preparatoin much less the general public, public pools had indifferent if any treatment, and nobody was using hand wipes or wiping off door handles. In developing countries where clean water is a scarce resource, the fecal-oral route transmits just fine. > > Stranger They were talking about the United States. I don’t recall being bugged more about washing my hands as the '50s progressed. True, parents were very afraid of public pools during outbreaks, but I doubt they cleaned up all that much. The point is not that poor sanitation could spread polio, but that the vast decrease in cases can’t be explained by improved sanitation, certainly not in the US. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/46 "2020-05-28T13:17:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Glad to hear that your daughter hasn’t gone over to the Dark Side. > This is probably a touchy question, but where does your SIL stand in all this? It’s gotta be tough to be in his shoes either way, but I sure hope he’s with your daughter on this, trying to placate his parents as best he can for the sake of family harmony, rather than the other way around. Good question! Over the years, The Son-in-law developed his coping skills with regards to his mom. He became MAJORLY passive-aggressive. And it is so ingrained, he does it automatically, with just about anyone, but especially mother-type figures. I accepted this a long time ago, to keep the peace. He really is a good guy. But he is a master of the smile-and-nod, then does whatever he planned in the first place. His good qualities are beyond reproach. He and The Daughter bought this house, with a downstairs bedroom and bath just for Mr VOW and me. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/47 "2020-05-29T16:08:19Z")
The Daughter and I had a very civilized (translation: no yelling) conversation about this mess. It was established that The Daughter and The Son-in-law are not angry with Mr VOW or me. (whew!) This was one of those “snowball rolling down a mountain” situations, that began with Mr VOW welcoming Other Grandmother home from her trip. We had been under the impression she had gone to visit her twin grandbabies who live in the north-central part of the State. Typically, when she visits them she sends us pictures of the kids, and we do our obligatory gush and coo. Instead, Other Grandmother sent pictures of this demonstration. Mr VOW makes the remark, “Nobody wore a mask?” And the interfamily fights began. There were heated texts between The Daughter and The Son-in-law and Other Grandmother. The shit hit the fan when Other Grandmother was informed her weekend visit with COTU#1 and COTU#2 would be postponed until Other Grandmother passed the 14-day quarantine period. The Son-in-law essentially told his mother the decision was his to make, and he had a responsibility to protect his daughter (COTU#1, the kid with Type 1 Diabetes). He then blocked his mother from phone, texting, Twitter, and Facebook. We’re all good under this roof. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/48 "2020-05-29T17:25:05Z")
Sounds very good! Thanks for the update! ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/49 "2020-05-29T17:41:21Z")
Yay, good for your son and DIL! Kids not only can contract coronavirus, they are also contracting a respiratory disease believed to be closely related to Covid-19. Good on everybody for protecting the kids. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/50 "2020-05-29T18:31:04Z")
It was a major, concrete reaction by The Son-in-law to Other Grandmother’s nonsense. As I detailed upthread, his major coping skill (which he has honed to perfection) is passive-agressive management. Over the years, this skill has enabled him to exist in a bubble of relative calm, until the storms died down and quasi-peace returned. In this instance, though, not only is there a possible threat to his precious kid, but his wife (The Daughter) was having a major meltdown over the threat to her kid, and to HER DADDY as well. The Son-in-law stepped up. I’m proud of him! ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/51 "2020-05-29T18:55:06Z")
I’m so happy to hear that, **~VOW**. We’ve had the same fusses around here. I just keep telling every one if they leave and come back I’ll be dead. Arkansas had it’s largest up-tick in COVID cases yesterday. I know they all would love to go out and find some fun or just shop. I get it. I’m alittle stir-crazy myself. I just would rather not die of COVID. It’s a hardship. But it could be worse. We have enough to eat and enough to do. I keep preaching that. (Altho’ the Disney Movie marathon is making me stabby:)) This thing will pass. I hope sooner rather than later. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/52 "2020-05-29T19:09:35Z")
I’ve been watching the evening news every night, **Beck** , and AR is always highlighted as having more new cases. I worry. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/53 "2020-05-29T19:11:13Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yay, good for your son and DIL! Kids not only can contract coronavirus, they are also contracting a respiratory disease believed to be closely related to Covid-19. Good on everybody for protecting the kids. I just want to correct myself. Good for your daughter and your son-in-law. My apologies for getting it switched, **VOW**. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/54 "2020-05-29T19:30:48Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > (…) > The shit hit the fan when Other Grandmother was informed her weekend visit with COTU#1 and COTU#2 would be postponed until Other Grandmother passed the 14-day quarantine period. > > The Son-in-law essentially told his mother the decision was his to make, and he had a responsibility to protect his daughter (COTU#1, the kid with Type 1 Diabetes). He then blocked his mother from phone, texting, Twitter, and Facebook. > > ~VOW I loved to read that. When reading SDMB threads about family problems I will frequently roll my eyes and mutter, “Stop putting up with shit from those abusive assholes.” Your son-in-law acted in correct, comprehensive, fashion, and I don’t need to roll my eyes, or mutter anything except, “Glory gee to Bezus!” ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524/55 "2020-05-29T20:00:29Z")
Glad that you’re OK and that Son In Law is stepping up! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-guess-were-gonna-die/854524.md?page=2)